Hope for the next generation of sailors?

[nat55]

You guys don't have any college age kids do you? Mine graduated about 3 years ago, she was an active participant in regattas all over the US.......the enthusiasm for the sport at that level is alive and well. I think we can consider sailing a lifetime sport whether it is small boats or cruising.
Looking at the colleges that are in the top standings it is apparent to me that the sport of sailing is limited to the upper middle class and up demographic, no surprise there. https://www.collegesailing.org/racing/sw-rankings
In her world in Seattle where she and her husband live aboard, sailing is a way of life, when they aren't working their butts off to pay student loans, (that is something I never had to worry about), they are doing something sailing related.
I think that sailing is alive and well, and will continue to be so. I'm pretty certain that most of us with kids make the sport an essential part of the family experience, and that will be passed down through the next generation.

Sail on!

 

[JamesG161]

3 landlubber Air Conditioning Technicians, came to our boat to trouble shoot our 16k BTU AC unit.
They had been directed to the Marina and I waved them down the dock to our boat.

They looked shocked and timid...
"You know we have never worked on a Boat AC before, where is it?" [Scanning the dock for the AC unit]
Me: "You ever been on a boat before?"
All: "yeah sure, but what kind of boat is this?"
Me: "Solar Powered Sailboat" [I got off the boat and showed them how to get back on, to the cockpit]
They are totally stunned, eyes taking in all...
Me: "ok here is how you go below" [ one by one they go below and all are amazed ]
Me: "Feel free to look around, over here is the AC unit" [ I had opened and exposed the unit for easy testing]
Lead Tech brought on this state of the art computerized Gauges with temperature and electric combined.
He proceeded to hang that test unit on my teak.
Me:"Use this stainless hand grip please!"

All of them over the course of the testing.
1) how does a sailboat work?
2) where can I learn to sail?
3) does it cost much to get started?
4) what is this, what is that?

Me: "You like kayaking?, You can even get a kayak with sails"
I barely got them to focus on the AC unit.

I gave them my phone number and all 3 called later to find out more about starting to learn sailing.

Moral to the story...
"Engage with the curious youth"

Jim...

PS: It was a $50 combined current/temperature overload that was bad on my AC unit
PSS: I had to explain the water cooled condenser and where to clamp his temperature probe to get the right temps.
PSSS: They have never charged me for their time on board. I asked why not. They said they learned more about Marine AC units than in a class room and now want to do Marine Air units.

 

[thinwater]

An unfortunate trend I noticed at the Annapolis Boat Show is that boats are becoming bigger and bigger, because that is where the profit is for the moment. The demographic is aging, and that is the best way to pump money out of that demographic. But it was darn difficult to find small, fun boats. Thus, more and more they are pushing what only older folks can afford.

Even more curiously (to me) was that traffic on the smaller boats was really light. No one was looking at them. The new Seascape/Beneteau Firsts are really fun (I sailed one a year ago). Even the F-22, Which Sail gave a "Boat of the Year" award (what ever that means) wasn't that popular. The smaller the boat, the fewer people looked at it. And you need to sell a lot more of them to make any money. Very few sailing dinghies. That bothers me.

 

[rgranger]

When I was a kid!!!! I used to sail barefoot....UPHILL .... both ways.

In the snow and ice.... and I liked it!

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I think there is too much generalization and compartmentalization of the younger generation by the older generation (most of us). Between Sue and I, we have 7 young adults between the ages of 27 to 36. They ski, they sail, they surf, they play golf, they ride bikes on trails and roads, ride jet skis, motorcycles and tinker with jeeps, they fish, they hunt, they hike, they camp out, they hang out with their friends and even all of the folks in their extended family, they even talk to their friends and family on the phones that they all carry (they actually talk at least as frequently as they text and they don't use the phone for much of anything else), they canoe and kayak. They travel and they are interested in different cultures. Of course I'm combining their leisure activities and they aren't into everything, they just do what they can when they fit it in around work. None have college debts - the ones that didn't have the money decided not to borrow it, so not all went to 4-year college. None of them makes a lot of money, in fact they seem to be very happy even when not making much at all, but all are healthy and happy just about all of the time. 4 are not married (mine), 2 are married and 1 engaged (Sue's). We have one grandchild and one on the way. They are curious about home improvement and all have made efforts on their own. I think they are far less addicted to electronic devises than we are. I even get the feeling that most old folks in this forum are far more into the electronic gadgetry than any of our kids are.

They all hardly ever post anything on facebook or any of the other mind-numbing electronic traps. By contrast, Sue posts and responds to stuff on facebook every day. They don't really even know what's on TV (my oldest doesn't even own a TV but she owns, several pairs of skis, bikes and surfboards, now a sailboat - part ownership - and 2 homes, one in the mountains and the other on the beach, all on a relatively meager income but a lot of ingenuity and some risk-taking.

It seems that the more things change, the more they seem to stay the same. These young folks aren't necessarily hooked on adrenaline activities and they don't have super short attention spans. They are basically no different than us in regard to our leisure or "way of life" pursuits. They are not having kids at young ages and they are postponing marriage or not marrying - that's different. The college debt thing is a cliff and we are all going to end up bailing out the debtors, just like we did for mortgages. There will be a time when more folks realize that college isn't worth the debt. There might be a resurgence in young folks learning trades rather than liberal arts. Our young folks will be better off when they veer away from the college debt trap. More sailboats will then be sold to younger folks.
I guess that's my stream of consciousness.

 

[JamesG161]

I think there is too much generalization and compartmentalization of the younger generation by the older generation (most of us)

We of the "Space Age" generation had our youth distractions too!
1) Sony walkman
2) Microchip personal computers.
3) Transistors everything, like radios, walkie talkies, hand held calculators
4) Cassette tapes, car stereos, cruise control, computer games like PONG.

IMHO it was NEW, Engaging and our friends were envolved too!

Todays youth is no different. Budget limited activity drives them as much as the older group.
I learned my youth sailing on a 14' poly-hulled boat motivated by my brother taking us sailing at Parents weekend at the US Naval Academy [I was 14].
_____

More sailboats will then be sold to younger folks.
I guess that's my stream of consciousness.

This is true today, as the past.
_______
Hollywood actually subliminally promotes Sailing!
Look at the background scenes around a lake or ocean.
What type boats do you see?
Powerboats or Sailboats?

Save the planet and sail!!
Jim...

 

[MikeHoncho]

You guys don't have any college age kids do you? Mine graduated about 3 years ago, she was an active participant in regattas all over the US.......the enthusiasm for the sport at that level is alive and well. I think we can consider sailing a lifetime sport whether it is small boats or cruising.
Looking at the colleges that are in the top standings it is apparent to me that the sport of sailing is limited to the upper middle class and up demographic, no surprise there. https://www.collegesailing.org/racing/sw-rankings
In her world in Seattle where she and her husband live aboard, sailing is a way of life, when they aren't working their butts off to pay student loans, (that is something I never had to worry about), they are doing something sailing related.
I think that sailing is alive and well, and will continue to be so. I'm pretty certain that most of us with kids make the sport an essential part of the family experience, and that will be passed down through the next generation.

Sail on!

I have a junior in college and twin juniors in hs. This is the reason I had to wait until 45 to buy a big boat. My oldest is signed up for sailing for a pe credit.

 

[BrianRobin]

Our club has a huge number of kids, aged from 6- up involved in sailing every summer. Here is a picture of the summers end race.

 

[nat55]

Interesting article from BoatUS- https://www.boatus.com/magazine/2017/october/why-arent-millennials-buying-boats.asp

 

[Allowishish]

There is quite a few great points made so far.

I also feel that the younger generation is being to "generalized"

The fact is that they are the first generation that is being handed a real economic outlook that is worse than their parents.
Housing cost is ridiculous... the price of a new car is equally bad (I remember saying I would never pay more than $20k for a new car, good luck with that)... education? well, we have to pay the football and basketball coaches first so that is going to cost 10 x's what it used to.

Add to that the previously stated industry trend in larger and LARGER boats... and those cost just go up.


The other thing that strikes me is that the only other forum I am on (ADVRider) is a motorcycling form and the same thing is talked about there. I just don't see it myself. I see more bikes on the way to work now than I did 20 years ago by far. I ride to work daily and count the other bikes that I see daily.

I am new to sailing... never even stepped on a boat before looking at the one we bought just over a year ago. I grew up in florida and always liked the idea... never knew anyone that sailed... never had the revenue to purse it. I had over 70 days sailing last year... I am completely hooked, but knew I would be from the moment my wife and I decided on our "retirement plan". Now we are working on retirement by the age of 55.
The plan is to learn how to sail on our boat in Colorado, 5 years out buy into a charter to get a more experience in more diverse settings... pay off the charter in those 5 years then move aboard and cruise.

I know 2 other couples (at our marina) our age and slightly lower that have the same plan.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

So take that college fund and go buy a sailboat now!!!! before someone else's kid gets your money in the form of financial aid for their kid.

So what you are saying is that only suckers pay the retail price in advance, like all 4 of my kids did. If you can scam the system, you get a break. If you take a loan and don't pay for college up front, expect relief, I suppose as well. Sorry, I don't buy your so-called statistics about the price difference of just $2,000, either. It might be a nice little academic exercise, but it doesn't pass the smell test.

What I really don't care for is the ballooning costs based on the easy debt scenario. Everybody gets a loan. It doesn't matter if they sign up for basket weaving (or some other useless liberal arts curriculum). Just get a loan for $40,000 per year and worry about paying much later. Sure, you might have to live with some heartburn when you realize that your education hasn't prepared you for anything that is income-producing. But never fear, debt relief will come around when there is enough outstanding debt to crash the system and tax payers bail out the banks, again.

As I told my kids, "think about that money you are laying out for this education … do you really want to pay for the high salaries of college administrators and professors, all of their benefits and job security, and the country club atmosphere that they get to live with for an entire career, while you, as a student, live in the relative squalor of the typical college student denizen, albeit you also enjoy a country club atmosphere for the brief time you are there." Being too young to understand, they go off to college like lemmings, because that is what most of their peers are doing. When they come out, the industry goes on with all the perks, but the students are on their own after 4 years of coddling. There is no security waiting for them. God help the ones whom throw all that money away on a useless curriculum.

It certainly is different than the days when I had tuition room and board for an entire year for $2,100. I'm amazed at the facilities that are now expected at colleges and universities today. It's not the students that really benefit. The education industry is in their bonanza days and have permanent and long-lasting benefits and security, now, just like the government bureaucracy has now, too. It's fed by easy money through the college debt programs, just like the housing market ballooned outlandishly. Also, not un-notable are the endowments that are lavished on many universities by their master-of-the-universe alumni. The money might be better served if they increased the incomes of their employees, but that doesn't feed their ego the same way.

You bet I was infuriated during my daughter's graduation ceremony when they gave an honorary degree to an A-Hole, whom then spewed a ridiculous, foul-mouthed rant against the current President (Bush) during his so-called "acceptance speech". He was hardly inspirational, really just a jerk. Totally inappropriate. Now, that same university wants to rescind their honorary degree from Susan Collins. Right, they don't want to indoctrinate … if it were possible to take the money back, I would in a heartbeat. My daughter doesn't feel the same way and it was her money …

 

[sailnoproblem]

Wow I have really enjoyed these posts. I for one received a free education albeit not formal from the University of SEA. I majored in staying alive.
Sorry if I went off the subject.

 

[MikeHoncho]

Sorry... I don't want to seem like I'm jumping down anyone's throat but this one really sticks in my craw. I know this is what you hear in the common media and what I'm about to rant on is not sailing related at all so I'll delete this if the moderators say I'm too far out of bounds.


This quote is NOT factually correct. It is true that tuition has outpaced inflation but what is not commonly reported is the fact that colleges have also been increasing their "discount rate". The discount rate is the amount of scholarship that they "give away". Here are some stats if you really care... the first chart is the discount rate by year and the second is the rate of increase in tuition.

https://www.chronicle.com/article/Average-Tuition-Discount-Rates/240597
View attachment 158463

The average discount rate at a private college is almost 50%. Adjusted for inflation and taking discount rate into account, the average tuition cost (OUT OF POCKET) of a private 4-year college has gone up by only $2000 since 1985. And what do students get for that $2,000? "Free" unlimited wifi, a state of the art fitness center, "free" counseling, "free" outdoor adventure training, "free" intramural sports, "free" athletic training, a plethora of "free" clubs to join, "free" walk-in health clinic, and a cafe that makes Golden Corral look like hog-slop. None of those services were available in 1985. When I was in college we got chicken fried mystery meat. I think colleges are providing a lot for that $2,000.

And since I'm ranting....despite what Mr Hannity and Mr Limbaugh say, not all of us who work in this sector are far-left, tree-hugging earth-pigs who want to indoctrinate your child in the joys of the communist party either.

What has changed is people don't save as much for college and are shocked they have to pay at all. And FAFSA decides how much aid you are "entitled to" based upon how much you are worth... and God forbid you have actually saved cash for college... you will get no aid. Colleges are not the ones pushing that socialist B.S., that is your government. So take that college fund and go buy a sailboat now!!!! before someone else's kid gets your money in the form of financial aid.

My daughter was accepted to many in state colleges, both private and public. She is a 4 year varsity athlete and a 3.8 ish student. She applied for at least 10 Grant's including the state system. She received about $800. A private college, one she didn't apply to, offered her a $20k/yr academic scholarship which brought tuition down to state level. The first check I wrote was a bit over $16,000. This was going to be twice a year.

The middle class makes too much money for scholarships but not enough to pay full. Lucky she was accepted into ROTC and then won a contract scholarship which is a full ride including room and board and stipend. We got the check back. She currently has a 3 year commitment and hopefully will get defered once accepted to medical school (on the DoDs dime)

 

[Allowishish]

I was not trying to start an education cost debate...
Just point out that the younger generation has a much different cost to prospective revenue ratio than I did.

I am speaking from my son in school at 25 vs my experience (currently mid 40’s) (oh and I went back to school at 30 and my cost were well over 28k)

 

[rgranger]

Apologies to anyone who felt I jumped on them.
Obviously I have issues

 

[MikeHoncho]

We all do. What normal person not only dumps money into a floating hole in the water but also sits on the internet learning how to do it better?

 

[Kermit]

Our club has a pretty vibrant youth sailing program. I’m amazed everytime I see the number of wide-eyed youts just itching to get out on the sailboats.
As for the advertisement, it made my heart speed up a little. I want to go sailing! Today!

 

[TomY]

..."private 4-year college has gone up by only $2000 since 1985",....

That notion aside after 2 kids, ,...

Sailing will remain (as always), an expensive recreation for young adults. The one bright spot I see is that used sailboats are cheaper in relation to income today. Nice basic coastal cruisers: A late sale around here was a mid 80's Sabre 28. With a balky A-4 but completely clean and sail away, went for $1k. New boats will remain out of reach for young adults (same as ever) but the inventory of older boats is huge and growing.

Millennials are getting their hands dirty (I agree with Scott, we parents are hooked to devices just as much - if not more). We boomers can take credit for showing them that side. They'll pick it up. They are, even wooden boats, "Yachts" with a small price tag, are finding young owners with the skills to take care of them.

Yep, owner/maintainer below, at the helm employed in the marine trade.

The tough part for most young people will be water access and costs to keep the boat. In my area, those costs are reasonable much due to our local and fishing culture.

In some areas, clubs may help. Not so much here, Yacht Clubs - like yachts, are not affordable for young adults (and never were). Truth is YC's in many areas are looking for members. I have my doubts that the young generation is going to fill that void.

As far as racing, that too is not a huge draw in my area. Seems to me to own a modest PHRF racer and belong to a club will be out of reach of 20 somethings (as it always has been). They may make their entry in their 30's-40's as their parents did?

One good 20 something friend, owners a local $1 boat, just shipped onto a schooner in New Zealand. He's headed to Polynesia as a hand for the experience. All costs paid, he'll get extra credits to add to his degree. Pretty typical of this generation. He's a sailor, after all.

 

[Will Gilmore]

I see a lot of good things about the future of sailing that I don't see about a lot of the other examples mentioned here. Colleges, cars and government all suffer from the same problems. The public.
We are all expecting more for our buck each year. We want more amenities, more services, more payback. What was once a basic and useful tool becomes a necessity that we can't imagine how people in the past got by without it. New boat production is following that same trend. The saving grace is the great quantity of older used boats. If you are willing and able to put the work in. Sailboat ownership can be pretty cheap. If you want what your neighbors have or you want to one-up them, you have to pay.
We people like to feel envy and we like, even more, to cause envy. Being the one guy in your group who owns a basic sailboat while everyone else has electric/powered/furling/computerised/ satellite controlled/"maintenance free" floating high speed condos is never going to be enough. Debt is just the way of expressing how important keeping up is to us.

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[Sailboatvirg]

Dead on Will, the sailing down here in the Keys is limited to a couple of sailing clubs which is populated by baby boomers.
We are ageing, there is just not much interest in the generations behind us. After going to the boat shows and climbing around the new sailboats I find they are so lacking in character. Laminates and cheap hardware to wow the new buyers, I am so in love with the teak on my 41 Morgan OutIsland. Down here the indigent populace find a cheap sailboat, park it, sell off anything of value, including sails and motors, and call it home. Its all rather depressing, until I get one of those magical days and head out to the reef with dolphins playing in my bow wave and the breezes are perfect for the jib and the main, that's what keeps me here and content.