Honda 9.9 on a Catalina 22

Apr 11, 2017
571
Catalina C22 Solomon's Island, MD
Hello to everyone-

I'm in the process of closing a sale on a 1987 C22, and plan to use it for weekend cruising around the mid Chesapeake Bay. I don't plan to race.

I've read a lot of threads regarding outboards on the C22, and it seems the consensus that a 6 hp is adequate, and weight is an issue. I expect to be using the boat with a lot of tidal current, and long runs. I like the Honda 9.9 4 stroke because of the extra reserve of power, and the 12 amp alternator. I expect the boat will be fairly well loaded down, and I plan to add a beefier outboard bracket if needed. I was also planning to strap a small Jerry can on each side of the mast along the lifelines, which I think might do something to balance the load bow to stern, for a while at least. I was also thinking of stationing a loaded ice chest up in the v berth.

Does anyone think a 117 lb Honda 9.9 4 stroke would be a disaster on a C22? Thanks for any thoughts at all.

Mike
 
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Apr 11, 2017
571
Catalina C22 Solomon's Island, MD
I should add - it's a 25" shaft, and that accounts for some extra pounds - getting up to 117.
 
Nov 19, 2008
2,129
Catalina C-22 MK-II Parrish, FL
Lot's of opinions, here are some of mine from actual experience. Yes, the 12 amp alternator is nice, yes there might be a time when you believe you need 9.9 HP, but it's a heavy! That's a lot of weight. In my opinion, you don't need the 25" shaft. I've had several C-22's, used a 5 HP Honda with a 20" shaft and never had an issue with insufficient power, It had the 3 amp alternator, and it was enough to keep the battery topped off while running an autopilot, VHF, GPS, all the normal stuff. I've also had the 6 HP 20" Sail-Pro Tohatsu's that come with a 6 amp alternator, and they too gave plenty of power to run everything and keep the battery topped off. They also pushed our wing keeled MK-II along with plenty of reserve power. The Tohatsu Sail-Pro's also come with a high thrust prop. Remember, it's the thrust of the prop that pushes you along. The Tohatsu's also have the shifting right in front, so you don't have to hang over the back to reach the shifter, of make some contraption to allow front shifting. One of my C-22's came with a very nice 8 HP 4-stroke Johnson. Just too heavy, so I sold it to buy a 5 HP Honda. Another C-22 had a 2-stroke 9.9 Mariner, it too was heavy, and way too much power, so I sold it. We're cruisers so weight isn't that big of a deal. But all that weight hanging on the stern of a C-22 is just not needed and kills performance. I've not had an issue with the prop coming out of the water with 20" shafts unless by big butt was up on the forward deck, and it was a little rough out on the water. Sitting normally in the cockpit and motoring along I've never had the prop pop out of the water, so I guess I'm just lucky. Another thought to consider with a 25" shaft is let's say something happens, you run into a bunch of sea-weed, or whatever and you shear the pin in the prop. Unless you got arms like a gorilla, you can't reach the prop to change the shear pin. But then again, nobody thinks about that.
You don't seed a need to carry jerry cans up on the deck. My wing keeled C-22 with a 5 HP Honda gave me consistently slightly over 20 MPG at 5.5-6 knots motoring. My current Tohatsu with the high thrust prop gives me 18-19 MPG. I have a 6 gallon tank in the fuel locker, and a 2 1/2 gallon can in the anchor locker. That gives me a comfortable 150 + mile range. Where are you planning to go?
Just my opinion from my experience.

Don
 
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Ward H

.
Nov 7, 2011
3,645
Catalina 30 Mk II Barnegat, NJ
A friend has that OB on a Capri 22. Same boat I believe. I've been on it a couple of times. I saw no negative affects from the 9.9. I'm sure others with more experience will chime in.
 
Apr 11, 2017
571
Catalina C22 Solomon's Island, MD
Thanks everyone. I don't have arms like a gorilla, so a good point is made there. I'm looking for any guidance, and I'm sure you know how it is to get excited planning out a boat.

Is the weight issue more so just wrestling the unwieldy thing on and off the bracket, or is it really a boat performance killer carrying that extra weight so far back on the stern?
 
Nov 19, 2008
2,129
Catalina C-22 MK-II Parrish, FL
"Is the weight issue more so just wrestling the unwieldy thing on and off the bracket, or is it really a boat performance killer carrying that extra weight so far back on the stern?"

Both...... The best thing you can do to kill the performance of a C-22 is to put weight in the back of the boat. And I'm not a racer either.

Don
 
Apr 11, 2017
571
Catalina C22 Solomon's Island, MD
Thanks Don - I appreciate your insight. The Tohatsu 6hp Sailpro really looks like a great motor, and about half the cost. Mainly my concern is whatever I buy has enough punch to buck substantial waves, headwinds and tide if needed. Somehow, it seems on the Chesapeake the return trip is often about 180 degrees from where the long fetch waves, headwinds and time schedules want you to go. My longest run would probably be about 60 miles or so.

Do you have any opinion on the motor noise of the single piston Sailpro 6hp, compared to a dual cylinder 4 stroke? I've spent years with very noisy 1980's 2 strokes on the backs of dingies, so any 4 stroke motor would likely be a huge improvement by itself. Thanks again to all.
 
May 23, 2016
1,024
Catalina 22 #12502 BSC
We've sailed the Bay a half dozen times from Norfolk to Baltimore, chartering larger craft out of Deltaville. Given the weather, wind conditions, tides, etc., we often found our targeted waypoints changed day-to-day. I see you're in Solomon's, a great spot, so plenty places within reach in different directions....work with (don't fight) the conditions and don't load the boat down with unnecessary weight. The 6hp sailpro will push you to hull speed comfortably from my study....Don's advice is spot on IMO.
 
Nov 19, 2008
2,129
Catalina C-22 MK-II Parrish, FL
Hardhead, I've got more opinions than Carter has liver pills as the old saying goes. My friend out in San Diego has an identical MK-II like mine, except he has a short shaft 9.9 Mercury,(made by Tohatsu by the way), and yes at idle it's super quite, and smooth. But once he throttles up, the noise level is comparable to my Sail-Pro. The short shaft works fine for him, and he's rigged a block and tackle for lifting the motor up when sailing. The noise lever of my 5 HP Honda was louder than my Tohatsu. I even tried isolating the engine mount by installing a plastic motor pad with no noticeable difference. I don't know if it's the exhaust coming through the prop under the water that helps the Tohatsu, I suspect it helps. The 4 strokes are quieter than the old 2-strokes because they have more torque and run at a lower RPM, but I do miss that 2-stroke exhaust smell. One huge advantage the Sail-Pro model has is the high thrust prop. It really shines with the increased thrust in reverse. Because the prop design has a lower pitch, I have to run it at a slightly higher RPM, but that helps the battery charger output. Both the Honda and the Tohatsu alternators are unregulated, which is not an issue, but I found the Honda produced a higher voltage at a lower RPM than the Tohatsu I guess because the Honda uses two coils, and the Tohatsu only uses a single coil for the alternator. But the Tohatsu is about twice the amperage. The larger 2 cylinder outboards also have an optional electric start. My wife could not pull start the 5 HP Honda, the Sail-Pro pulls so easy it's like someone left the spark plug out. I've not seen any advantage an electric start would give me because it starts so easy. I just use good premium gas and add Sta-Bil and a dash of Sea-Foam. It's the same ethanol blend that goes into my car.
C-22 PERFECT STORM.jpg

Here the 5 HP Honda has plenty of power to push us up the swell.
MOTOR MOUNT 02.jpg

The motor clamps right to the stainless steel plate and can transmit noise and vibration into the hull.
MOTOR MOUNT 05.jpg

The plastic mounting pad helped.
MOTOR MOUNT 06.jpg

But ultimately, I sold the Honda and bought a Tohatsu.

In all fairness, the Honda was slightly easier to change the water pump impeller than the Tohatsu, either model took less than an hour.

Don
 
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Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
My B23-5 came with a Tohatsu 6, but just did not move the boat with that small prop. The Honda 8 with alt and 25" XL shaft had just come on the market, fit just right, and moved the boat out smartly. It sounds like the OP will put more severe use to his boat than those with a 20-inch shaft.
 
Mar 20, 2015
3,094
C&C 30 Mk1 Winnipeg
Because the prop design has a lower pitch, I have to run it at a slightly higher RPM, but that helps the battery charger output. Both the Honda and the Tohatsu alternators are unregulated, which is not an issue, but I found the Honda produced a higher voltage at a lower RPM than the Tohatsu I guess because the Honda uses two coils, and the Tohatsu only uses a single coil for the alternator. But the Tohatsu is about twice the amperage.
Sorry to butt i,n but with your comment I have to ask:
What are you getting with the Tohatsu alternator ?

I have an almost pristine 2015 Merc 15 hp 2 stroke that came with our C22. I am shopping to replace it.
 
Nov 19, 2008
2,129
Catalina C-22 MK-II Parrish, FL
Leeward Rail, the Tohatsu Sail-Pro comes standard with the alternator factory installed, along with the high thrust prop. The alternator is pretty simple. The photos are from a 6 HP Nissan, (made by Tohatsu), that I added the charging kit to.
TOHATSU 6 HP ALTERNATOR 007.jpg

There is a charging coil, it's the coil on the bottom in the photo.
TOHATSU 6 HP ALTERNATOR 008.jpg

And the charging coil runs to the rectifier, and an output fuse, and there is a wiring harness that runs to the front of the engine. I added a plug on the transom that runs to the battery switch.
TOHATSU HIGH THRUST PROP.jpg

Here is a photo of what the high thrust prop looks like, Larger diameter, lower pitch, completely different blade design.

Don
 
Sep 14, 2014
1,251
Catalina 22 Pensacola, Florida
The current (mine is a 2016) model of the tohatsu sail pro 6 has an alternator standard and it is regulated. Mine is the 25 inch shaft cause I hate cavitation when I am up forward and a big discourteous boat goes by with a huge wake on a choppy day. I have yet to go past half throttle to get 5.5 knots in forward in most conditions.
V New tohatsu OB Aux.JPG
 
Apr 11, 2017
571
Catalina C22 Solomon's Island, MD
Thanks - there are really a great bunch of people on this forum. I appreciate everyone's thoughts, and what it took to give such detailed responses.

The boat comes equipped with a 32 year old Evinrude yachtwin 8hp 2 stroke, but I have the funds and wanted the peace of mind and reliability of a new 4 stroke. No slight on the existing motor.

I was ready to pay 3k for a Honda 9.9, but it's not often you hear of a better option, and it happens to cost 1/2 the price. It seems hard to go wrong starting off with the Tohatsu Sailpro - all things considered.

If anyone else has any thoughts - I am all ears.

Mike
 

shank

.
Apr 20, 2016
124
Catalina 27 5231 Lake Champlain
Just my two cents... I think a 9.9 4-stroke would be way too heavy and overpowered for this boat. I have a 4hp two-stroke and it pushes it along just fine. I think the ideal motor is 5-6HP Tohatsu.
 
Mar 20, 2015
3,094
C&C 30 Mk1 Winnipeg
What a great photo Don added - how can anyone want anything more?
Well... how about a steel hulled pilot house cutter 38 to 40 ft long and built for high latitude sailing, crewed by young redheads and brunettes ?
Oh sorry.. that's not what you meant. ;)

More on topic.. I guess I need to see what my 15hp merc is worth.
Especially since there is a solution to the bad lock design on the tohatsu.
 
Dec 7, 2016
66
Beneteau Oceanis 45 Annapolis
I put a new Tohatsu Sail Pro 6hp on my Catalina 22 and never had an issue with it pushing the boat. No problems at all moving the boat along at 6 + knots.