Hollow Braid Rope?

Jul 27, 2011
5,002
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
Been doing some research on hollow braid ropes, chiefly of polypropylene, to replace the hand-lines on the dink. But I’m impressed by the variety of diameters available and of the materials used in construction, including polyester. Are there good applications for hollow braid ropes on sailboats that we’re overlooking? I read they are torque free, and of course lie flat, and are strong. Opinions welcomed!
KG
 
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Jan 11, 2014
11,423
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
I think the biggest shortcoming is that they are not as strong and stretch more. On the other hand they are very easy to splice when compared to a cored line. They might make nice sheets or traveller control lines, but lousy halyards.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
All 12-strand dyneema is hollow braid, and obviously has tons of applications on a sailboat. The best part is how easy it it to work with. A couple of splicing tricks under your belt and you can fashion pretty much anything out of the stuff. Poly's only advantage is that it floats and its cheap. Oh, the stretchyness might be of value in some applications.
 

Gunni

.
Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
They are known as single-braid and there are many that would be an improvement on the cheap stuff that they use on dinks. I used polyester NER Regatta Braid for years as my genoa sheets, great hand, stuck to the primary winches like glue and was super easy to splice, wouldn’t hesitate to use this if I was rebuilding dinghy grab lines:
http://www.apsltd.com/new-england-ropes-regatta-braid-line.html

There are some like Samson Control DPX that have dyneema and other aramids that have astonishing load capacity, are UV protected and splice much better than the pure aramids.
https://shop.sailboatowners.com/prod.php?6272/Control-DPX

And then there is Amsteel single braid, I use this wire-rope alternative to build my dinghy lifting bridles and strops for other similar applications.
https://shop.sailboatowners.com/prod.php?6265
 
Oct 22, 2014
21,104
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Perhaps as rode, holding your dock boards, a painter for your dinghy, securing a fishing net to the stern?
They have strength but some materials are susceptible to abrasion
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
They are known as single-braid and there are many that would be an improvement on the cheap stuff that they use on dinks. I used polyester NER Regatta Braid for years as my genoa sheets, great hand, stuck to the primary winches like glue and was super easy to splice, wouldn’t hesitate to use this if I was rebuilding dinghy grab lines:
http://www.apsltd.com/new-england-ropes-regatta-braid-line.html
HUH? Like Swiftcord, these 'woven' 12-braids are not really hollow and are diabolical to splice. APS splicing services won't touch the stuff to spice.
 
Oct 22, 2014
21,104
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
As @Jackdaw identifies, the dyneema lines are being used for lifelines and stays. Replacing steel due to their lightness and strength. They do have a cost factor and a short life factor in such applications, that is a consideration. But the advantage in light weight for some is worth the cost.
 
Jul 27, 2011
5,002
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
I was aboard the R/V Sally Ride last fall (283 ft AGOR vessel). The dock lines were of Dyneema; noticeably “thinner” than the double-braid nylon ones that you typically see.
 
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Oct 22, 2014
21,104
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Since Dyneema has virtually no stretch all of the motion is transmitted to the boat and dock attachment points. Maybe not the best use for the product on a small boat.
 

Gunni

.
Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
HUH? Like Swiftcord, these 'woven' 12-braids are not really hollow and are diabolical to splice. APS splicing services won't touch the stuff to spice.
No, single braid uncored line like the inflatable boat builders use for hand-lines. Basically ski-rope.
 
Mar 26, 2011
3,414
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
There are a lot of things you can do with the cover-only. It is, of course, hollow, and lies flat like webbing. Furler lines are common. But there are also a lot of uses for the cover-only of retired lines, made practical because it is easy to splice, flexible, and lies flat. Hand lines on a dinghy is one possibility (I've done this).
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
No, single braid uncored line like the inflatable boat builders use for hand-lines. Basically ski-rope.
Oh. You were talking specifically about NER Regatta Braid in that quote.
 

Gunni

.
Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
...Or high-strength braids like Samson Control DPX and Amsteel at the other end of the spectrum. I really liked the light weight of the Regatta Braid (at least when it was dry), it would make a nice affordable spin sheet.
 
Jan 25, 2011
2,401
S2 11.0A Anacortes, WA
I’m definately not up to speed on modern rope design..but can hollow braid rope be used for jack lines? Small footprint and will not roll under foot...
 
Oct 2, 2008
3,807
Pearson/ 530 Strafford, NH
No, single braid uncored line like the inflatable boat builders use for hand-lines. Basically ski-rope.
That’s what I used about four years ago, the sun is hard on it. I’ll probably do mine again but use dyneema.
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,423
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
I’m definately not up to speed on modern rope design..but can hollow braid rope be used for jack lines? Small footprint and will not roll under foot...
Depends on what material the single braid line is made of. I would never use Dacron or Polypropelene, however, I would consider Dynema. However, a flat webbing is still safer because even a single braid will roll under foot. Over the past couple of years there has been a lot of discussion about jack lines in Practical Sailor and on the Affordable Adventure Cruising website.
 

Gunni

.
Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
Webbing continues to be the go-to for jacklines, because flat doesn’t roll. Make sure you use the polyester webbing material. It has UV durability. All the same, I take my jacklines off when daysailing to give them less UV exposure.
 
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Gunni

.
Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
That’s what I used about four years ago, the sun is hard on it. I’ll probably do mine again but use dyneema.
Consider NER Regatta Braid, has better “hand” and UV resistance. You really don’t need the brute strength of Dyneema, and the stuff feels greasy.
 
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Oct 22, 2014
21,104
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
there has been a lot of discussion about jack lines ... on the Affordable Adventure Cruising website.
John at AAC recommends Dacron webbing. Based on strength and some give. His theory (using climbing as a metric) is that when you start to head over the side, you will get hurt from the harness if the jackline has no stretch to soften the impact. Dyneema has no stretch so it makes a bad choice. You need to control the stretch and climbers have found that Dacron is a better choice than Polypropylene products.

Location of the jacklines is also a consideration.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
John at AAC recommends Dacron webbing. Based on strength and some give. His theory (using climbing as a metric) is that when you start to head over the side, you will get hurt from the harness if the jackline has no stretch to soften the impact. Dyneema has no stretch so it makes a bad choice. You need to control the stretch and climbers have found that Dacron is a better choice than Polypropylene products.

Location of the jacklines is also a consideration.
While I agree with the use of Dacron webbing, I don’t buy the give aspect of it. Even if they were made of dyneema, a jack line stretched between two distant points on the deck will pull away from the deck several feet under load, like a guitar string. That’s more than enough give to absorb shock. You don’t need stretch making it worse.

The Pogo’s factory jacklines were Dacron webbing with thin dyneema lines inserted for strength and stretch resistance.