Here is what a current boat survey looks like

Discussion in 'Catalina 310' started by paulj, May 24, 2019. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. paulj

    paulj

    Joined Mar 16, 2007
    1,279 posts, 43 likes
    Catalina 310
    US Anacortes,Wa
    This message is removed by request.
    paulj
     


    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019
  2. shemandr

    shemandr

    Joined Jan 1, 2006
    3,976 posts, 915 likes
    Marblehead Skiff 14'
    US Greenport, NY
    To some extent this report is what bothers me about these reports. There is a lot of information which is quite obvious i.e. " There is a double sink..." Well the buyer already knows that. That's one reason they choose the boat. Moving on from that while the OP is concerned about the engine fire suppression system, the broken tabbing from a grounding would seem to me to be a much bigger concern. And by my experience a $15,000 fix - if the keel moved $20,000 or more. Just saying it's not grinding a little fiberglass and epoxying some tape in there. I guess my problem is with the emphasis on which problems are more important.
     


  3. FastOlson

    FastOlson

    Joined Apr 8, 2010
    1,101 posts, 171 likes
    Ericson Yachts Olson 34
    US Portland OR
    I also see some major problems with the boat, and the survey has some odd misspellings. I also agree with Andrew that the minor problems are sort of lumped in with some major expensive repairs. I would not use that surveyor. I know a good surveyor, and her reports are a LOT more precise than this one.
    A repair bid from a reputable yard should next be obtained and then the offer can be adjusted appropriately.
     


  4. JRT

    JRT

    Joined Feb 14, 2017
    1,206 posts, 405 likes
    Catalina 310
    211 US Lake Guntersville, AL
    @paulj did you actually have a hard grounding?
     


  5. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho

    Joined Dec 28, 2015
    325 posts, 134 likes
    Laser, Hunter H30 Standard
    Un Tacoma
    I think the general details like sinks and such come into play with a remote buyer having a local survey done. Nothing on the engine/trans/shaft/prop condition or insight? I though that was odd. How do you calculate percentage of sail life?
     


  6. Tally Ho

    Tally Ho

    Joined Jan 7, 2011
    1,344 posts, 280 likes
    Oday 322
    US East Chicago, IN
    My O’Day 322 has a halogen fire extinguisher in the engine compartment. I called a fire equipment place to see if I could get it Serviced. They said they don’t use halogen anymore. Just hang on to it was their recommendation.

    I have many other extinguishers on board, but I guess if there was a fire in the engine box, this halogen extinguisher may be useful.

    Greg
     


  7. FastOlson

    FastOlson

    Joined Apr 8, 2010
    1,101 posts, 171 likes
    Ericson Yachts Olson 34
    US Portland OR
    My '88 boat also has a factory Halon bottle with heat-activated dispenser. I took it to the vendor that checks and certifies my dry powder extinguishers. They said would inspect it, weigh it, and tag it. And they did so.
    Note that if it gets used up, it cannot be refilled with the same chemical compound, but there are others.
    A replacement with an approved gas now costs about $500. So I do not plan to replace this one arbitrarily.
    :(
     


    Last edited: May 26, 2019
  8. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    9,220 posts, 4,094 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    Thanks for sharing your survey. No one wants to be reminded of all the little things that might be wrong with their boat. But better to have it done than to be surprised by a would be buyer.
     


  9. JK_Boston_Catalina310

    JK_Boston_Catalina310

    Joined Nov 18, 2010
    2,062 posts, 152 likes
    Catalina 310
    US Hingham, MA
    Those cracks are not evidence of a hard grounding! Get another surveyor with better experience.

    Call Warren at Catalina. They painted the interior of the hulls before assembling. I can show you all the paint flaking off the tops of my laz some time. The cracks are in the paint and not structural.

    On the fire suppression, you just have to add a Port to the stairs that allows you to spray fire suppressant into the engine without lifting the stairs. It's a $50 fix plus an extinguisher.

    This guy wrote up some things in the best way for the buyer it seems.

    You have a double sink? If not I would use that to show just how bad the survey report is and that you are not negotiating on it. If it's for insurance, refuse to pay or demand money back and get another surveyor.

    Good luck
     


  10. FastOlson

    FastOlson

    Joined Apr 8, 2010
    1,101 posts, 171 likes
    Ericson Yachts Olson 34
    US Portland OR
    As for the "cheap answer" (and that is why builders do that) of installing a port thru which to spray dry powder into the engine compartment, there ARE some disadvantages. The chief one is the amazing mess that stuff makes. Also word is that IF the engine is still running when you do this, inhaling it will be bad for it.

    I only have had the experience of a powder extinguisher going off inside of a boat once, but the resulting mess took weeks (!) to clean up.
    After that experience, having a Halon extinguisher in the engine compartment as a first line of defense seems like a pretty good idea.
    If that is not enough, you can always use your dry powder extinguisher for the followup attack.
    :(
     


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  11. jon hansen

    jon hansen

    Joined May 25, 2012
    2,092 posts, 1,814 likes
    john alden caravelle 42
    us sturgeon bay, wis
    having gone to and passed and certified by a maritime fire fighting school and know of the dangers of a vessel fire at sea, i must tell you that that in no way does a hole in the in the stairs through which you squirt an extinguisher a good or equal replacement to a fire suppression system. fires grow exponentially. blowing an extinguisher through a hole while in a seaway quite simply "ain't much"and prolly will not save you and your loved ones.
    this is my opinion derived from my training, take it for what you paid for it!

    SAFETY FIRST :)
     


    FastOlson likes this.
  12. jon hansen

    jon hansen

    Joined May 25, 2012
    2,092 posts, 1,814 likes
    john alden caravelle 42
    us sturgeon bay, wis


  13. jon hansen

    jon hansen

    Joined May 25, 2012
    2,092 posts, 1,814 likes
    john alden caravelle 42
    us sturgeon bay, wis
    note: paul, i will wager that that 95% of all the boats owned by those on this site have no suppression system at all. diesel fuel is not that dangerous. an up to date standards surveyor will of course suggest this. gasoline engines are another animal. call those guys. learn for yourself about fire safety. you prolly will decide that you do not need a suppression system as most of the others have, including catalina. in sixty years i have seen, i was on board, one engine fire. a fuel line split and was spraying a mist on a red hot turbo. a fire started. the suppression system worked pefectly. i'll guess you do not have a turbo. the line was repaired. the fire cause no real damage. right gear for that engine.
     


  14. stephen john penny

    stephen john penny

    Joined Feb 21, 2013
    25 posts, 9 likes
    Hunter 46
    US Point Richmond, CA
    An engine fire suppression system with automatic engine shutdown is a desirable safety item. My 2004 Hunter 386 and new to me Hunter 46 each have one. However, the Hunter 46 survey recommended replacing the fire suppression bottle since it could not be confirm as fully charged. So I went ahead and showed that to the local Sea Fire supplier, who advised replacing it, which I did.

    Fortunately, the survey list of recommendations for the Hunter 46 was relatively short compared to the survey that was in the original post. During the haul out I got the boat yard to quote to fix all the surveyor's recommendations and then contracted with them to fix all the items that required a haul out with the remaining items fixed in the water by myself or a local contractor. Fixing these recommendations was a requirement by the insurance company.
     


    jon hansen likes this.
  15. FastOlson

    FastOlson

    Joined Apr 8, 2010
    1,101 posts, 171 likes
    Ericson Yachts Olson 34
    US Portland OR
    Our small diesel did not come with a "shut off" system, altho I can understand why that might be a good thing.
    We do have the indicator light that goes out if the cylinder discharges. My guess is that by that time you'd know that something was wrong anyway. :(
    I have a picture of the installation, with the solid engine step molding removed.
    Main blog here: http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/entry.php?677-Wiring-amp-Engine-Detail-part-2
     

    Attached Files:



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  16. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho

    Joined Dec 28, 2015
    325 posts, 134 likes
    Laser, Hunter H30 Standard
    Un Tacoma
    A designed suppression system is best, no denying that. That being said, fire flow study after study show suppression while offering the most minimal oxygen is superior. This is why the hatch is preferred and the built in system is king. Halon is a halogen which takes hundreds of years to break down in the atmosphere due to the attached fluorine molecule. This is why it is no longer available to general public.

    Although diesel is "safer" than gasoline or a better term is less volatile, diesel (vapor) only needs .6-.7 % concentration in atmosphere to be flammable compared to 1.2% for gasoline. You have to get it to 136 degrees to produce that vapor (flashpoint) but that isnt hard considering engine temps . Diesel has one of the lower flammable ranges of hydrocarbon fuels used and once on fire is very difficult to put out and keep out.
     


  17. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho

    Joined Dec 28, 2015
    325 posts, 134 likes
    Laser, Hunter H30 Standard
    Un Tacoma
  18. JK_Boston_Catalina310

    JK_Boston_Catalina310

    Joined Nov 18, 2010
    2,062 posts, 152 likes
    Catalina 310
    US Hingham, MA
    Depends on the boat. I have worked several boats with halon systems. But people have died from accidentally triggering these. I would never personally have one on a cruising/day sailing boat. I would take the engine issues for using dry chem.
     


  19. JK_Boston_Catalina310

    JK_Boston_Catalina310

    Joined Nov 18, 2010
    2,062 posts, 152 likes
    Catalina 310
    US Hingham, MA
    Gone through the same training and then some. We are talking about a 25 hp auxiliary diesel engine. Not a major power plant. Different tools for different problems.
     


  20. JK_Boston_Catalina310

    JK_Boston_Catalina310

    Joined Nov 18, 2010
    2,062 posts, 152 likes
    Catalina 310
    US Hingham, MA
    136 is low for most diesel I have personally tested. Most is above 150.
     




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