HELP!!! Please

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Rick D

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Jun 14, 2008
7,131
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
Is there a bilge area near the water heater? When I had a water heater(s) fail before, it was at the heat exchanger at the tank and the coolant flowed into the insulation between the shell and the tank, then down to the bilge via the limber holes in the pan under the heater. There was never much in the bilge since the bilge pump would kick on. However, it was clear it was antifreeze by the color. I don't see how this would be related to the RPM however. If it is the tank, or for a way to check it, you could always get a male/male barb fitting and bypass the heater. Not that the method would make your wife happy, however. Good luck!
 

weinie

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Sep 6, 2010
1,297
Jeanneau 349 port washington, ny
Thanks again Arthur, firstly we have now completed the engine access modification-if only I had known that one last week when we changed the impeller! Today I checked the diesel hose/filter at the tank-it was clear. Checked the Racor filter for a crack-No luck with that one. Added food colouring (sorry for the spelling, but we are Aussies and that's how we spell colouring!) however, no coloured fluids came out the exhaust-it did show up on the inlet hose to the hot water tank, however, I could not find any access to check for the colouring after the HWS. I had not realised to mention that we had no hot water after running the engine-I was not aware of the correlation between the 2.....sadly I am a sailor, and not quite yet a mechanic. Thanks everyone for the advice. Art, I am still unsure where to check post HWS for any leakage/blockage? Also, would this tie in with the decrease RPMs or is that still likely to be a separate issue? Thanks again everyone for your tips.
If you can see fluid through the hose, then you are looking at your potable fresh water "circuit" which uses clear hose, not the coolant circuit which uses black rubber. So if you are seeing dye there, then antifreeze has leaked from the coolant circuit to your potable water in the hot water heater.
 
Jun 5, 2004
485
Hunter 44 Mystic, Ct
I'm wondering if the problem is with the coolant pump or possibly the thermostat. I recall that some of us had a leaking coolant pump seal that was discussed on this site. Looking at the configuration for the engine access modification, if the coolant pump seal was leaking I'm not sure that the coolant would be readily visible in the engine sump. Just something else to check if not already done.
 

cooper

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Mar 25, 2013
28
Hunter 49 Delaware
Thanks Stu, We will certainly be buying Nigels book as several people have now suggested the same to us. I am keen to become a "adhoc mechanic", more keen than I am to keep paying out the $ to other very "adhoc mechanics"!
Interesting what you have said also about the water in the fuel as after we took on fuel in the BVI the Racor water strainer warning light came on at the helm. I replaced the filter and drained the water at the time. When we had a mechanic on board in the DR at Samana last week he redrained more water from the Racor filter and again replaced the filter-second filter on same tank of diesel and we still hold around 40% in the tank. The coolant we are using is Havoline extended life. The only thing that we are certain of is that coolant is disappearing and there appears to be no visible leaks. The other thing is that the engine will not achieve more than around 1400ish RPMS at full throttle-this varies up to a maximum of around 1600on a good day. Currently waiting for mwchanic from B&R Marine to arrive next week and I will certainly pass on what the outcome was. Cheers and thanks for your info.
 

cooper

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Mar 25, 2013
28
Hunter 49 Delaware
Hi Rick, yes there is a bilge right next to the water heater. I can not though see any fluids leaking out at all. I am sure everyone has probably figured out that mechanics is not my forte, however, we are getting there. I am sure everyone is on the right track and I have removed the black cap of the inlet hose to the water heater and this is the last spot I can trace the fluid with dye to. When I release the radiator cap this water/fluid/coolant bubbles out at the point where the cap is on the inlet hose (with the cap removed).
 

cooper

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Mar 25, 2013
28
Hunter 49 Delaware
Thanks Marc, We did look all around under the engine and into the aft cabin and also followed the hoses to the HWS and cannot locate any leaks anywhere. Im still puzzled and hoping that it is nothing to major. Thanks for reply.
 
May 27, 2012
1,152
Oday 222 Beaver Lake, Arkansas
White smoke in exhaust almost always means a blown head gasket.

The intermittent loss of power could likely be water fouling the combustion, which happens after you shut down hot. Also a symptom of a blown head gasket.

Mysterious loss of coolant without visible external leaks. Again that leads one toward a head gasket.

You have all the basic symptoms to indicate indicate its a blown head gasket. That is where my investigation/diagnosis would start. A fuel problem isnt making it overheat and run low on coolant. Fix that first, worry about the fuel system later, if its even necessary.

As said above, I also believe you will make your own best mechanic. Read the manual, ask questions, learn how it all works and why things work the way they do. You will be the better for it. Also, dont blame Yanmar for the service tech. Just blame the shop.

You should order a head gasket and rocker cover gasket, as well as any other pertinent parts needed to R&R the head. You may be able to order a "head set", containing all the parts needed in one package. If you dont need it you can store it away for safe keeping, or sell it or possibly return it. But I think you'll be needing it.
 
Apr 8, 2010
1,606
Frers 33 41426 Westport, CT
One thing not mentioned, the RPM issues could be as simple as a clogged or restricted vent line on the tank, although a little unlikely with the other symptoms, it is easy to rule out.

When it won't rev up to full RPM, open the fuel fill cap to see if there is a vacuum. With the fill cap open, does it achieve full RPM? If so, you probably have some insect nest in the vent line.
 

cooper

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Mar 25, 2013
28
Hunter 49 Delaware
Thanks for the suggestion-it certainly was feasible as the boat had sat out of the water for around 18 months in Nanny Cay before we brought it, however, even with the fuel fill cap off it wont increase RPMS beyond 1100 this morning. Thanks for the idea anyway. Cheers
 
May 27, 2012
1,152
Oday 222 Beaver Lake, Arkansas
I will quote some of what you wrote:

"had been motor sailing for around 2 hours at 2200 rpm in light winds. Without warning the motor pitch changed and the engine dropped around 400 rpm and the temp rose immediately to 205 when the "Hot Engine" alarm came on.This all occurred within less than 5 seconds. We had just at the same time been hit by a very small wave on our starboard side-coincidence?"

"Coolant level-reservoir-EMPTY. Previously FULL in the morning."

"I added more fluid (approx 2-3 quarts in total!)"

"Again today the reservoir was empty at the end of the trip and the engine took around 3 quarts again to fill. The mechanic felt the water was "escaping" from the engine somehow."

"At present, the engine will not start at all. It does turn over, however, will not fire. The battery is 12.7 V, fuel 40% visual and on gauge as well."



While I still wouldnt rule out a head gasket, upon further thought I would be looking at the heat exchanger as the primary cause, with the overheat happening after heavy seas to starboard. The engine cooling system is sealed, or should be, and no external pressures should have any effect on it. The only area where the system could have contact to outside pressure is at the heat exchanger.

The fuel system issues are likely coincidental and unrelated. Its one of the problems we run into with engine diagnosis involving engines that lacked regular maintenance or are new to us, you can have multiple issues with multiple operating defects that point toward things that aren't even related.

I would pull the exchanger off and have it pressure tested, just to rule it out. Then go through the cooling and fuel systems thoroughly. I dont know whats available in the DR, but here in the states the auto parts stores sell test kits to test for combustion products in the cooling system. I would test for it if you can find a kit. I would also remove and visually inspect your coolant hoses. On two occasions in over 40 years of wrenching, ive ran across embolisms in a coolant hose. That can be a real nightmare to diagnose, let me tell ya.
 
Apr 8, 2010
1,606
Frers 33 41426 Westport, CT
Thanks for the suggestion-it certainly was feasible as the boat had sat out of the water for around 18 months in Nanny Cay before we brought it, however, even with the fuel fill cap off it wont increase RPMS beyond 1100 this morning. Thanks for the idea anyway. Cheers
I figured it was a long shot given the other symptoms, but it's one of those easy to test and easy to overlook items that is worth a few minutes to check just in case.
 

cooper

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Mar 25, 2013
28
Hunter 49 Delaware
I thing the heat exchanger will be the problem at the end of the day. I emailed Mastry in the states seeking to find out the availability of a head gasket kit just in case. Mastry have none and have checked the rest of Yanmar in the US and there currently are no kits there for this particular model of engine-they say that they rarely sell the head gasket kits for this engine as it is often other cooling related problems that occur first. The heat exchanger was supposedly repaired at Nanny Cay and I went out on the follow up survey and it overheated again. The mechanics at Nanny Cay looked at it on return and claimed they hadn't added the coolant by mistake when they had re-assembled the engine. We are fairly gullible I suppose in that this seemed feasible and we believed them. We had done no significant motoring until we crossed the Mona passage and it all went well for that crossing. The only other thing that happened after the crossing was that the cold water pump packed it in (it is a surflo that was made in 2008) and then we switched to our spare pump that was identical and made in 2012-we had just replaced a faulty one prior to leaving the BVI-I am sure this has nothing to do with it, but I am finding out that I should include every little detail as there is obviously some very knowledgeable people out there and what is insignificant to us might be the cause of the problem. Thanks for your follow up and we are hoping it is the heat exchanger-the first local mechanic who saw us at Ocean World seemed sure it was. Cheers
 
May 27, 2012
1,152
Oday 222 Beaver Lake, Arkansas
I did some checking for you. Apparently Yanmar only sells parts regionally, but I was able to talk to guy up in the NE. They dont sell a head set or gasket kit, you have to buy each one individually. He didnt have a head gasket and neither did his distributor. I am waiting to hear back from another outfit, ill let you know what I find.
 

cooper

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Mar 25, 2013
28
Hunter 49 Delaware
Wow thanks for that!. The people in the US I emailed are Mastry as I was told they were the Yanmar dealers for the States. Hopefully this is so. If you have any luck I would really appreciate passing on their details, if not, thanks all the same for looking into this for us. Thanks again so much.
 
Jul 23, 2009
857
Beneteau 31 Oceanis Grand Lake, Oklahoma
I didn't get answers to my previous questions so I did a little research on your Yanmar. It's not overly complex, that's good.

Is it still using coolant?

I found an example on another forum and the problem was the fuel pump. I'm not sure if it was a lift pump or the injector pump. It was not using coolant, but the running issues were very similar.
 

cooper

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Mar 25, 2013
28
Hunter 49 Delaware
Hi SycloneDriver, I am very sorry I had not seen your previous post. I am unsure on what the throttle is. I am thinking that you are on the right track and it is 2 separate issues. I have checked the fuel pick up in the tank and it was clear. It is still using the coolant so we definitely have an issue there, but hopefully with the Yanmar agent coming on Monday we might know more (I say hopefully as talking with them it was a battle to get them to even bring a pressure tester-they wanted to come and have a look first before they brought any equipment? Try and work that one out!). Thanks for the info and research. Cheers
 
May 27, 2012
1,152
Oday 222 Beaver Lake, Arkansas
I told Cooper to sail away somewhere else, lol. FAST! Like head for San Juan PR. We can only hope the guy coming Monday isnt simply trying to lubricate their local economy.
 

cooper

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Mar 25, 2013
28
Hunter 49 Delaware
THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO REPLIED TO OUR REQUEST FOR HELP. The verdict..................It was 2 different things. Firstly in regards to the overheating. The HWS has an inlet hose that has a black knob on the top for turning it on and off. The knob leaked intermittently as the pressure increased from the cooling system. No blown head gasket and no leaking heat exchanger. The loss of RPMS was caused by a blockage in the tube in the diesel tank. A $530 lesson for us in diesel maintenance. After both of the above were attended to the mechanic ran the engine for 30 minutes at 2400 rpm and it didn't miss a beat nor did it get hot. THANKS EVERYONE FOR THEIR TIPS........Now does anyone have any suggestion on how to fix our CT80 MaxPower Bow Thruster that has stopped working. I checked the massive in line fuse (300amp) and it has NOT blown. I know even less about these than I know about diesel engines......which is not a lot. I was using the bow thruster and it did not seem to have any power in the thrust-it was working and churning the water, just lacking power, hence I kept it on for about 10 seconds and it works no more. The lights come on at the control panel and it has not overheated as this happened 2 days ago and it still does not work. It had previously worked. Cheers
 
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