Heeling

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Jul 5, 2010
34
catalina 22 Texas
BTW, heeling the boat past about 15 degrees is SLOW... these boats, as are most Catalinas, are designed to be sailed flat, with very little heel. When you heel over too far the rudder will become detached and the vessel will BROACH. Which means it will rapidly turn up into the wind, out of control, boom swinging wildly. Very dangerous. So quit pretending you're on a Hobie cat trying to fly a hull to impress people on the beach. The name of the game in sailing is to be in control of the boat in all conditions.... anything else is a candidate for "Jackass" the movie.
Dude, thanks for the info. I've never heeled past 15 degrees and know full-well I'm not on a Hobie. I am not a speed racer, just a brand-new sailor. I think at this point, I'm way more interested in staying alive on my boat, than impressing anyone. So am unclear who that comment was meant for...

Dude......... do your self a big favor and call catalina yachts customer service... you can google it... and ask them to send you a copy of the OWNER'S MANUAL for your boat. Do it today. In the manual are intructions on how to rig your boat. Forget it, I found it for you.... unfortunately this manual shows the end of boom reefing cheek block in the wrong position. It should be located slightly aft of the reef cringle so it can pull the new clew down and back insuring good foot tension....

http://www.catalina22.org/manuals/mnl87/handbook.htm#4.1
Someone had mentioned to me that the catalina catalog showed a poor reefing system and that I should set mine up differently. That's why I came here...appreciate the info.
 
Aug 7, 2010
90
Catalina 22 Stockton Lake, Missouri
knotalot, if you're ever up at Stockton Lake in the Missouri Ozarks, I'll be the guy in the blue hulled Cat. 22 named the Shirley Jean....sailing just like you!!!! The intent is to learn, have fun and stay alive!

Bilbo, that's an interesting question, about leaving the bolt rope out of the boom groove. Be curious to see if anyone has and what the result was. My O'Day Widgeon is loose footed and it works fine...but it was designed for that and is 10 ft. shorter than my Cat.

Vic
 

Ken

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Jun 1, 2004
1,182
Catalina 22 P. P. Y. C.
Bolt Rope

You would want to add a sail slug if you going to use the sail as a loose foot. Both of my North Sail mains can be used as a closed shelve, only tried it once didn't like it. Loose footed mains are much faster (at least that's my experience)
 

Ken

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Jun 1, 2004
1,182
Catalina 22 P. P. Y. C.
Yep that's the one, I think you'll find once you stop using the bolt rope on the boom you'll never go back. :D
 

Ken

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Jun 1, 2004
1,182
Catalina 22 P. P. Y. C.
Put it inside the boom, seriously easy and oh so much nicer and cleaner. easy winter project. :D
 

OldCat

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Jul 26, 2005
728
Catalina , Nacra 5.8, Laser, Hobie Hawk Wonmop, CO
O/C...I have a pad eye and a horn cleat to tie the outhaul off.
So a 2:1 outhaul with some friction where the line goes through the clew? IMHO - this is not really enough purchase for a C22, especially if you have the bolt rope foot main sail.

You know what follows, but knotalot may not, so here goes. Simplified sail trim for light to high but still full sail winds. For this post, extremely light winds and reefing are ignored.

To keep the boat flatter, and extend the wind range in which full sail can be carried and still keep the boat under control, the sails need to get flatter as the wind picks up. To be able to do this, the following controls are needed:

1. An outhaul of 4:1 or higher. Tighten just enough to take out vertical creases along the boom. Make it tighter as the wind builds. It can be made so tight in high winds that the foot of the sail shows horizontal creases along the boom.

2. A Boom Vang. This also gets tighter as the wind builds. To use it correctly, tell tales are needed on the leech (rear) of the main sail. One should be placed at each batten pocket. The goal is to get all the tell tales streaming aft. The top one is hardest to get to flow, so ignore it until you get more experience with sail trim. Trim in the main until the bottom tell tale flows, then adjust the vang to get the others streaming aft.

3. A boom downhaul or Cunningham. 3:1 or 4:1 purchase is needed. Allow small horizontal creases in the luff of the sail in light winds. Tighten as the wind builds up. If there are vertical creases along the luff, loosen it. I use both a boom downhaul and a Cunningham. The Cunningham gets used after the downhaul runs out of travel. This downhaul is a very important and often overlooked sail control on a boat like ours where the boom slides up and down.

4. Move the head sail blocks aft on their track as the wind builds.

5. Sheet the main out as needed to control heeling during a gust.

This is very simplified sail trim - but enough to help the boat sail flatter and faster. Tighten the above controls as the wind builds - reef if everything is tight and you are still feeling uncomfortable. I can provide more explanation if needed. Hope it helps.

OC
 

OldCat

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Jul 26, 2005
728
Catalina , Nacra 5.8, Laser, Hobie Hawk Wonmop, CO
It is my opinion that the issue about the fairlead (Pad/eye) vs outhaul block is a good point if one is going to be adjusting the sail shape in this area. But the type of sail that is used on this person's (and my) C22 is the closed foot type and arguably not much benefit (if any) is gained by adjusting the outhaul tension while sailing with this type of sail. This would be because of the stiffness of the bolt rope going through the foot seam which is also inserted into the boom slot and the fact that loosening or tightening the outhaul only provides creases in the main with little change in draft depth or location.
I have a bolt rope footed main like yours.

Outhaul is an area where we disagree - with a low friction and powerful enough outhaul it becomes possible to adjust the shape of the bolt rope footed main sail. Use SailKote on the bolt rope. Have a 4:1, or better 6:1, outhaul. I use a headboard shackle and a block at the clew to keep friction low. In high winds, crank it until there are creases parallel to the boom. See this C22 tuning guide: http://www.bartlettsails.com/html/One_Design/Catalina-22.html.

Give a higher power outhaul a try - you can flatten a bolt rope main sail - it just takes more force. Note the discussion of horizontal creases (folding the shelf tight along the boom) in the C22 guide linked above.

OC
 

Ken

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Jun 1, 2004
1,182
Catalina 22 P. P. Y. C.
outhaul

Gotta agree with OC here, spray that bolt rope with McLube sailkote and it will slide just fine. I highly recommend the internal outhaul. That said I'd not use the wire but in it's place use amsteel instead.

When I added the outhaul I ended it with a block that allows the use of one continuous line that feeds back to either side of the cockpit, this way I can adjust the outhaul always from the "high side"
 

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Jul 5, 2010
34
catalina 22 Texas
This is some great info. I am going to print it and take with me to the boat on Saturday to see if it makes any sense. Thanks to all of you for the info, I'll post up what I come up with. Either it will be good or provide you all with a great laugh!!

A.
 
Nov 29, 2010
1
catalina 22 duncan
I too have a 1985 catalina 22 swing keel - One our very first shakedown cruise some years ago we were hit with a 35knt downdraft that knocked us down - mast in the water - water flooding the cockpit - hanging on for dear life - within 2 minutes ( seemed like more ) the boat poped back upright - the cockpit drained and all was well. I did learn some important lessons - keep all hatches and lockers closed and pinned whan in heavy winds - the fuel locker was not pinned and the tank came out and disconnected. also the water was up to the second companion way board when over on its side and some water did leak into the cabin - keep boards in and hatch closed.

the catalina 22 is an excellent boat - if you ever do manage to tip it - it comes back up- if you get uncomfortable with the amount of healing then ease the main.
one of the best ways to learn more about your boat and gain confidance is to go for a sail with an certified instructor on a windy day - you soon look for more speed and enjoy the rush.
I spent 45 days on my boat this summer and had a awsome time - enjoy
bob
 
Jul 5, 2010
34
catalina 22 Texas
I too have a 1985 catalina 22 swing keel - One our very first shakedown cruise some years ago we were hit with a 35knt downdraft that knocked us down - mast in the water - water flooding the cockpit - hanging on for dear life - within 2 minutes ( seemed like more ) the boat poped back upright - the cockpit drained and all was well. I did learn some important lessons - keep all hatches and lockers closed and pinned whan in heavy winds - the fuel locker was not pinned and the tank came out and disconnected. also the water was up to the second companion way board when over on its side and some water did leak into the cabin - keep boards in and hatch closed.

the catalina 22 is an excellent boat - if you ever do manage to tip it - it comes back up- if you get uncomfortable with the amount of healing then ease the main.
one of the best ways to learn more about your boat and gain confidance is to go for a sail with an certified instructor on a windy day - you soon look for more speed and enjoy the rush.
I spent 45 days on my boat this summer and had a awsome time - enjoy
bob
Bob - thanks for taking the time to share that with me. That was something I needed to hear. You went over and the world didn't end. From an earlier suggestion here, we now sail with the cockpit compartments secured. When more than a light wind, companionway is closed.

We were bless a couple months ago to go out with a very experienced sailor. He's taught, raced, done it all. He graciously spent an afternoon removing some of our green-ness and teaching us basics. It made a world of difference. We now know how to control the boat in regular winds. Gonna learn more about reefing the main so the stronger winds will be manageable.

Ciao
 
Jun 14, 2004
2
Catalina- C22 SK- arlington,tx
Don't know what part of Texas your in, but we have a pretty good group of C22 owners at the Arlington Yacht Club in Arlington,Tx. They are always glad to help a newbie and allow you to crew for them to get experience and are willing to share their knowlege freely.
 
Jan 22, 2008
402
Catalina 380 16 Rochester NY
Hi Knotalot,

I didn't read all 4 pages of posts but I did notice a lot of talk about reefing the main.

I don't have my 22 anymore, but I remember having the exact same thoughts, questions, fears and more the first summer or two with the boat.

Every hour made me more brave, to the point that before selling her I was routinely taking her out in 20+ winds on Lake Ontario in 3'-6' seas or more.

Never had any worries towards the end, but I can tell I NEVER would have done that in the first year or two.

I have enclosed a couple of pdf files I made for the new owner that show to rig the mainsail reefing and other things. They may or may not help.

Good luck though!
Great boat.
Chris
 

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OldCat

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Jul 26, 2005
728
Catalina , Nacra 5.8, Laser, Hobie Hawk Wonmop, CO
When I added the outhaul I ended it with a block that allows the use of one continuous line that feeds back to either side of the cockpit, this way I can adjust the outhaul always from the "high side"
You have a really nice outhaul setup - you deserve an award for an awesome mod. :dance:

OC
 
Jul 5, 2010
34
catalina 22 Texas
Thanks alot from knotalot

Don't know what part of Texas your in, but we have a pretty good group of C22 owners at the Arlington Yacht Club in Arlington,Tx. They are always glad to help a newbie and allow you to crew for them to get experience and are willing to share their knowlege freely.
I'm in Austin, woodbutcher, but thanks for the invite, I appreciate it!!
 
Jul 5, 2010
34
catalina 22 Texas
Great info!!

Hi Knotalot,

I didn't read all 4 pages of posts but I did notice a lot of talk about reefing the main.

I don't have my 22 anymore, but I remember having the exact same thoughts, questions, fears and more the first summer or two with the boat.

Every hour made me more brave, to the point that before selling her I was routinely taking her out in 20+ winds on Lake Ontario in 3'-6' seas or more.

Never had any worries towards the end, but I can tell I NEVER would have done that in the first year or two.

I have enclosed a couple of pdf files I made for the new owner that show to rig the mainsail reefing and other things. They may or may not help.

Good luck though!
Great boat.
Chris

These are really good, thanks. Some newbie questions:

Boom vang pdf - D. why did you put a shackle on the clew of jib? What does that accomplish? Mine is just loop knotted. Should it be changed?

Furler pdf - I have a harken. We replaced the rope on it and restrung it. It works good now. I cannot locate a 'pin'? The rope to raise the jib is run portside back to cockpit. Is mine rigged wrong, it sounds like its set up different from yours?

Mainsail pdf - OMG, I mean OMG. The way you have that rigged, does it mean that you can raise and lower the sail without climbing on top of the cabin?????

A - you state "You will have to do some maneuvering to get rope through cleat.". tell me why so I understand better, please.

I so want to know what a back shackle and a mast block is. I would be a better sailor if I knew, I know it.

B - i noticed your hand rails only have 4 loops, mine have 5, but we are looking to replace them due to poor wood condition. So, if we went to the 4 loop, we'd have room for the rope cleats, yes? I am assuming the top of cockpit looks the same on both sides, correct?

C - I already do that right! Finally, something. My jib halyards run outside lifelines through shackles to winches and are knotted on each end.

Topping lift pdf - great set up. I have to investigate mine and see what to do. My topping lift is a cable. I notice you have your cable attached to a rope that runs up to a block, explain what the advantage is, please. (i know there is one, need to understand it!)

Cannot thank you enough for this great info.

In fact, I can't thank all of you enough for all your comments, advice and knowledge. We are safer , more effective sailors already because of it!!

Andrea
 

OldCat

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Jul 26, 2005
728
Catalina , Nacra 5.8, Laser, Hobie Hawk Wonmop, CO
why did you put a shackle on the clew of jib? What does that accomplish? Mine is just loop knotted. Should it be changed?
I'd stay with the knot. A jib clew shackle is a good way to get wacked if you need to go forward and the jib ends up flogging. The shackle can also dent & damage stuff.

Mainsail pdf - OMG, I mean OMG. The way you have that rigged, does it mean that you can raise and lower the sail without climbing on top of the cabin?????
Yes, they can. This is generally called "leading lines aft" or similar. My winter project is to do this. The lines are lead through blocks at the mast base, then turning blocks and back to cleats or line clutches at the back of the roof. Some sailors like this, some don't. Don't do it until you know enough about boat hardware to make good choices. IMHO, good choices will make the boat easier to sail. Bad choices can reduce the safety of the boat...

My jib halyards run outside lifelines through shackles to winches and are knotted on each end.
Is this a question about halyards or the sheets? It sounds like the sheets, if so: If you want more info about running the sheets, then it matters how your boat is set up. Specifically, if you have inner tracks, or outer tracks, or both & what size your head sail is. Best is to post a pic of your current setup if you want help on this.

Best,
OC
 
Mar 5, 2010
17
Catalina 22 Shreveport
I have a wing keel so take that into account but I think it's universal, if the boat heels too far, it slows down. If it slows down too far, it stalls. You're just sitting there laid over but you aren't going down without wave action. Heave to with a lot of sail up in high winds. She just lays over so far. That's all it's going to do. It's fun, but it doesn't get you where you need to go so just fall off and run with it if you can till you can come back up. We did this a lot today. Great fun because the C22 can take a ton of wind without reefing if you reduce headsail to the appropriate size.

Great boat.
 
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