Head Won't Pump Out...

kloudie1 · Jun 26, 2019

Wet vacuum to dry it out. Other than that, might as well have a rebuild kit with you when ya go.

FastOlson · Jun 26, 2019

If starting over, install a Raritan PH2 (or current version thereof) and 'be happy' ...

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · Jun 26, 2019

SirMichael said:
I just learned that they haven’t made the Sealander head for probably 30 years or more. Looks like I may have to buy a new head.

Yup...it's definitely time for a new toilet. The SeaLand 751 and 752 were top quality manual toilets, but SeaLand discontinued them in the late '80s (your boat must have among the last on which they were installed) to concentrate almost exclusively on their VacuFlush electric toilet. It's been at least 20 years since any parts, even rebuild kits, have been available for it. That it's worked this long without any maintenance is a testament to their quality and durability.
Assuming that you want to stay with a manual toilet, a Jabsco Jabsco Twist 'n' Lock Manual Toilets is the least expensive...a "starter" toilet that most production boat builders use because it IS the least expensive. The Raritan PH SuperFlush Raritan PH SuperFlush is the current version of their PHII, which has been the top rated manual toilet since Raritan introduced it in 1982. It's more expensive, but will last at least 20 years if it's just kept well lubricated and a rebuild kit installed every 5-6 years.
As Kloudie said, use a wet/dry vac to empty the bowl....put plastic garbage bags under the hose fittings to catch the drips when hoses are removed from 'em. Lag bolts are used to mount toilets, so here are no nuts on the mounting bolts...just back 'em out (it may be a challenge to break bolts that have been in place for 30+ years loose). You'll almost certainly have to drill at least 2 new mounting bolt holes 'cuz no new toilet base will be a match for yours.
If the hoses are even close to 10 years old, I strongly recommend that you replace them too...and whether you choose the least expensive toilet or the best one, sanitation hoses are not something you want to "go cheap" for if you only want to do this job once for another 10 years. Raritan SaniFlex hoses RaritanSaniFlex hose have proven to be totally odor permeation resistant and also have the advantage of being so flexible they can be bent like a hairpin without kinking, which makes the job a LOT easier! List price is about $15/ft but you can find 1.5" for about $10/ft.
I've only "hit the high points" here, so you're sure to have a lot of questions. I'll be glad to help you get everything right the FIRST time...'cuz that's always cheaper and easier than having to do anything over.
--Peggie

DaveJ · Jun 28, 2019

You should make sure that the vent is clear, spiders/mud dabbers/TP can all clog it. This could be why you had to push very hard to pump.Good luck.
Cheers
dj

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · Jun 28, 2019

Dave has a very good point...we've completely overlooked the possibility of a blocked holding tank vent because we fixated on a toilet that failed due to age.

All tank vents have two main functions: to provide an escape for air displaced by incoming contents and provide a source of air to replace contents as they're pulled out. When air displaced by incoming waste cannot escape out the vent the tank becomes pressurized, creating increasing back pressure that prevents the toilet from flushing.
Without a source of air to replace contents as they're being sucked out of the tank, the pump will pull a vacuum that'll prevent it from pulling out more than a gallon or two. A particularly strong pumpout can even implode a tank. So do NOT use the toilet again or try to pump out or dump the tank until you've cleared the vent.

The two most common locations for a vent blockage are the vent thru-hull and the other end of the vent line--that end of the hose and the vent fitting on the tank. Start by cleaning out the thru-hull...use a screwdriver blade, ice pick--whatever works. If that doesn't result in a spew out the vent (which it prob'ly won't now that the pressure has dissipated enough to flush the toilet again but do this anway), you'll also need to clean out the other end of the vent--that end of the hose and the vent fitting on the tank. But just in case there's any pressure in the system again, you'll want to relieve it before removing the vent line from the tank to clean them out...so open the deck pumpout fitting VERY CAREFULLY with a hose at the ready. Be sure you're UPwind of it! Scrape out that end of the vent line and the vent fitting on the tank...replace the vent line.

If there's a filter in the vent line, remove it...once a filter gets wet--which can happen when a tank is overfilled or even due to heeling--the charcoal swells and blocks the vent...one of the reasons why vent filters aren't recommended for use on most sailboats.

Give me a shout if you have any questions or problems doing this.

--Peggie

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · Jun 28, 2019

Mike...mud daubers aren't the only thing that can block a vent...spiders can build thick "nests" in 'em, a large enough insect can do it without building a nest....heeling can cause even a half full tank to spill into the vent, creating a buildup init at the tank even if it doesn't spill all the way out the vent. So unless you have a means of flushing out the vent regularly, you can never just assume the vent can't be blocked.
Fortunately there's a very easy way to create a means of flushing out the vent: replace the "vent" thru-hull that all boat builders use--which are actually designed to keep sea water out of the fuel and water tanks, but boat builders use the same ones on waste tanks too 'cuz it costs 'em less to buy one type in bulk--with an open bulkhead or "mushroom" fitting (see attached photo...it can be any material except nylon 'cuz nylon has no UV resistance...sunlight turns it into powder) that allows you to stick a hose nozzle against it and backflush it every time you wash the boat and/or pump out. If you're gonna have people aboard for longr than just a long day on the 4th, I'd make that swap before the 4th and definitely when you rebuild the toilet...and backflush the vent line immediately.

Your vent might not be blocked, but I learned years ago that prevention is always easier and cheaper than cure.
--Peggie

marchem · Jun 28, 2019

One thing I've learned about flushing thru the vent outlet: you need to be pumping out at the same time, or else pressure will build up in the tank and release a spray of water when you remove the hose. Don't ask me how I learned that lesson; and how many times it took!!

kloudie1 · Jun 28, 2019

Mike, usually when the handle is hard to push down, it is the sea water inlet check that is stuck or jammed.. (or a big wad of paper in the discharge line) The little valves in the top of the pump that are controlled by the "wet/dry" lever.. If the lever is not fully thrown to the "dry" side, the pump will be very hard or impossible to move.. If the cam that the lever is attached to is worn or loose, it will do that.. Parts 12, 28, 27 in the picture
https://www.marlow-hunter.com/wp-content/export/Vendor-Manuals/Toilet 752.pdf
Same essential parts on the Wilcox as in the blow-up..

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · Jun 28, 2019

marchem said:
One thing I've learned about flushing thru the vent outlet: you need to be pumping out at the same time, or else pressure will build up in the tank and release a spray of water when you remove the hose. Don't ask me how I learned that lesson; and how many times it took!!

You only need about a 5-10 second blast to send anything that's tried to set up housekeeping in the vent line on a waterslide ride into the tank, so unless you're using a hose without a nozzle on it or a nozzle set to spray wide...OR your vent thru-hull is still a "vent" thru-hull instead of an open one, you shouldn't have to keep the hose nozzle against the thru-hull anywhere near long enough to pressurize the tank!
--Peggie

marchem · Jun 28, 2019

Peggie Hall HeadMistress said:
You only need about a 5-10 second blast to send anything that's tried to set up housekeeping in the vent line on a waterslide ride into the tank, so unless you're using a hose without a nozzle on it or a nozzle set to spray wide...OR your vent thru-hull is still a "vent" thru-hull instead of an open one, you shouldn't have to keep the hose nozzle against the thru-hull anywhere near long enough to pressurize the tank!
--Peggie

I’ve been trying to put enough water in the tank to help flush it out. Guess I’ll quit doing that!!

markwbird · Jun 28, 2019

What did he have for lunch?

Ron20324 · Jun 28, 2019

marchem said:
One thing I've learned about flushing thru the vent outlet: you need to be pumping out at the same time, or else pressure will build up in the tank and release a spray of water when you remove the hose. Don't ask me how I learned that lesson; and how many times it took!!

You cause a new problem if you are pumping out and stick the hose/nozzle into the vent thruhull. You've blocked the ingoing air that the tank needs to replace the stuff you're pumpng out. Most likely the result will be a disfigured joker valve and need to replace it. If you have a pistol-grip nozzle on your water hose, get a 2 or 3 foot section of hose with the female end to screw to the pistol grip. Gives you quicker control of water flow.

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · Jun 28, 2019

Ron20324 said:
You cause a new problem if you are pumping out and stick the hose/nozzle into the vent thruhull.

It's pretty obvious you've never back flushed your vent or you'd know that you put the hose nozzle AGAINST the vent thru-hull, not into the vent line, Ron! It's the blast of water that does the job so there's no need for any hose to fit inside it. You might as well just use a snake if you're gonna do that.

Rob...putting water down the vent doesn't do much besides dilute the contents 'cuz the vent fitting is on the top of the tank. Putting water into the tank via the deck pumpout fitting works a lot better 'cuz that sends it into the tank at the bottom where it can stir up any sludge and hold it in suspension so it can be pumped out. You don't need a lot of water...just enough to cover the bottom to a depth of about 4-5 inches. A couple times should be enough to do the job.
--Peggie

Ron20324 · Jun 28, 2019

Peggie Hall HeadMistress said:
It's pretty obvious you've never back flushed your vent or you'd know that you put the hose nozzle AGAINST the vent thru-hull, not into the vent line, Ron! It's the blast of water that does the job so there's no need for any hose to fit inside it. You might as well just use a snake if you're gonna do that.

Rob...putting water down the vent doesn't do much besides dilute the contents 'cuz the vent fitting is on the top of the tank. Putting water into the tank via the deck pumpout fitting works a lot better 'cuz that sends it into the tank at the bottom where it can stir up any sludge and hold it in suspension so it can be pumped out. You don't need a lot of water...just enough to cover the bottom to a depth of about 4-5 inches. A couple times should be enough to do the job.
--Peggie

Don't tell ME "it's pretty obvious". And It's pretty obvious you've never serviced my boat. I pumpout every other week. I stick the hose a few inches into the vent thruhull so it does not hit the hull and deflect all over the place. Also, before the pumpout boat comes, I shoot water into the vent and watch the sludge come up the deck pumpout pipe. By the way, the vent hose is 1.25.

marchem · Jun 29, 2019

Peggie Hall HeadMistress said:
Rob...putting water down the vent doesn't do much besides dilute the contents 'cuz the vent fitting is on the top of the tank. Putting water into the tank via the deck pumpout fitting works a lot better 'cuz that sends it into the tank at the bottom where it can stir up any sludge and hold it in suspension so it can be pumped out. You don't need a lot of water...just enough to cover the bottom to a depth of about 4-5 inches. A couple times should be enough to do the job.
--Peggie

We’ve been adding water via the deck pump out 3-4 times for flushing. Good to know that just a quick squirt in the vent is enough. Thanks!

Head Won't Pump Out...

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