This is a new problem that just started after a marine surveyor checked our 1985 Catalina 30. Not sure if he did something or just a coincidence. Before the survey, when we pumped the head dry only a tiny bit of water remained at the bottom of the toilet bowl. Now when we pump it "dry" it first appears to be fine but after about 15 mins the water fills back up to several inches in the bowl. The water is coming from the holding tank (fortunately unused!) because we can tell from the color. Suggestions for possible causes/solutions would be greatly appreciated. Thx. Steve
Head toilet bowl won't stay dry: Catalina 30
- Thread starter Steve Jefferies
- Start date
I agree with southpaw.
Also sometimes, the joker valve may also have something
stopping it from sealing.
I cleaned mine once when this happened. The good news is that some boat
stores sell the joker valves separately to save you some $$$$.
Also sometimes, the joker valve may also have something
stopping it from sealing.
I cleaned mine once when this happened. The good news is that some boat
stores sell the joker valves separately to save you some $$$$.
I agree that you may need to replace the joker valve, but that's not all you need to do.
Unless the holding is full to overflowing, the tank can't be the source of the water unless it only happens when you're really heeled or the tank is full to overflowing because the inlet is at or on on the top of the tank...half a tank can run back into the toilet discharge line when the boat is heeled enough on that tack but, it can't jump into it when the boat's at rest. So most likely the water rising in the bowl isn't making it into the tank,,it's running back downhill into the bowl. That's an indication that a blocked tank vent is pressurizing the system creating back pressure that's pushing flushes back to the toilet. (And btw...if it's taking 15 minutes to rise in the bowl, the joker valve is only allowing slow seepage, so it's not in bad shape) On a Catalina, it's likely that the tank vent line is routed into a rail stanchion that has some little holes in the aft side of it. Just about anything including pollen or salt can clog those little holes clog up. Clean 'em out and it should solve your problem.
Rerouting the vent line to a new thru-hull in the hall just below the toe rail is the permanent fix Venting into a rail stanchion is a great idea for fuel and water tank vents...it keeps sea water out the fuel and water tanks. But it's the worst possible to way to vent a holding tank.
Also change the joker valve anyway...you'll be amazed at how much more efficiently your toilet will move bowl contents after you do. You'll find out what that is, if you search this site for "joker valve 101."
Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein
Unless the holding is full to overflowing, the tank can't be the source of the water unless it only happens when you're really heeled or the tank is full to overflowing because the inlet is at or on on the top of the tank...half a tank can run back into the toilet discharge line when the boat is heeled enough on that tack but, it can't jump into it when the boat's at rest. So most likely the water rising in the bowl isn't making it into the tank,,it's running back downhill into the bowl. That's an indication that a blocked tank vent is pressurizing the system creating back pressure that's pushing flushes back to the toilet. (And btw...if it's taking 15 minutes to rise in the bowl, the joker valve is only allowing slow seepage, so it's not in bad shape) On a Catalina, it's likely that the tank vent line is routed into a rail stanchion that has some little holes in the aft side of it. Just about anything including pollen or salt can clog those little holes clog up. Clean 'em out and it should solve your problem.
Rerouting the vent line to a new thru-hull in the hall just below the toe rail is the permanent fix Venting into a rail stanchion is a great idea for fuel and water tank vents...it keeps sea water out the fuel and water tanks. But it's the worst possible to way to vent a holding tank.
Also change the joker valve anyway...you'll be amazed at how much more efficiently your toilet will move bowl contents after you do. You'll find out what that is, if you search this site for "joker valve 101."
Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein
Thanks to all for the suggestions. Greatly appreciated. Was able to check the boat yesterday (1985 Catalina 30). Toilet bowl still filling after pumping dry. Still takes about 15 minutes. I did check the vent on the stanchion and stuck some wire down it. Was able to go down about 18 inches. This did not solve the problem. Could there be a block lower? My thinking is that because this is the original Groco toilet it is 32 years old and perhaps not worth working on (there is also a small water leak at the top of the handle when pumping). Checked online and replacement Groco is about $400. What do you think about a Jabsco? They are less expensive. Or should I persist on trying the fix the original. Appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.
Yep...most likely at the vent line connection to the tank...both the vent fitting on the tank and that end of the vent line. Even if you've never overfilled the tank, heeling can cause waste to spill into the vent line. Open the deck pumpout cap to relieve any pressure before removing any hoses!
If there's a sag in the vent line, it's possible that waste spilling into vent when you're heeled could have pooled in it...if so, just replace the vent line.
Or...are you 100% certain it's not flush water that's rising in the bowl? If there's no vented loop in the intake, water will rise to the boat's waterline if the toilet is left in the "wet" mode or the wet/dry cam has failed--which is definitely possible after 30+ years.
This would be the perfect time to upgrade to the Raritan PH SuperFlush...about $300 at Defender--the only retailer who seems to have it....even less if you go with the "conversion"(everything but the bowl, seat and lid). It uses the tried and true PH II pump which, if you just keep it lubricated and rebuild it every 5-6 years (about $60) will last 20+ trouble free years.
Thanks Peggy. I will check the vent on the tank next time I can get to the boat. The boat has not been heeled over for a long time so I don't think that can be cause. The water seeping back into the toilet bowl is green which is the color of the deodorizer plus water we put back in the tank after we flushed it. So, I guess it does seem to be coming from the tank. I think I will go ahead with a replacement head after checking the vent. Appreciate the recommendation too.
That tells me that either the tank is full or back pressure hasn't let the green tank product you flushed get to the tank. (see post #3). And that almost has to guarantee a blocked tank vent.
I hope you've opted for the PH SuperFlush toilet. It costs twice as much as a Jabsco, but not only is it so much more durable, but it moves bowl contents twice as far in half the pumps. You'll love it!
Another factor is how much higher the tank is than the toilet and the length of the hose. If the hose holds 1/2 gallon in an uphill run, that 1/2 gallon can run back to the head. The fix is to pump more water so you have clean water in the hose. But of course we hate to do that with a small tank, filling it up a lot quicker. The system would work a lot better if the tank were below the toilet, but theres not many small boats you could do that in.
In that case, learn to use the dry mode to do more than move the last of the water out of the bowl. Few owners realize (because they never bother to read the specs in the owners manuals) that any manual toilet that's working anywhere close to factory specs can move bowl contents up to 6 linear feet or 4 vertical feet in the dry mode. You can reduce run back to about a cupful and increase the number of flushes your tank can hold by at least 50% if you pump a couple of times to wet the bowl or use a cup from the sink to add water ahead of solids, switch to dry to move the flush all the way to the tank, then switch back to wet to rinse behind the flush and back to dry to clear the rinse water.
This does require a joker valve that still closes, which means replacing it annually (find the article "joker valve 101" in rhe sanitation forum archives for the reason why).
This does require a joker valve that still closes, which means replacing it annually (find the article "joker valve 101" in rhe sanitation forum archives for the reason why).