stu, it came from you lack of understanding on how some boat owners deal with yards, andn then blame the yards.
Head Plumbing Installed Ugly By Boatyard
- Thread starter JibeMama
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A legal head means if the Coasties pull me over I won't be given some ridiculous fine for sending beer pee overboard (mortyd). The boat is located in a "marine sanctuary". Also since purchasing this boat the toilet would fill to the water line because of no shut off or air loop. I had to get it fixed asap. Time is limited between work and my other boat I took a chance and went to the local yard that was highly recommended. Like I said I learned a lesson here. The cover will be attractive 
and I will post photos.
and I will post photos. 
What are you going to do ...? go after the PO...?
Go by what the surveyer says work is worth..?
(hint) Get him to do the work for that price...(Blue book value...? get the book to buy it...)
Its worth what you can get for it. Period.
Go by what the surveyer says work is worth..?
(hint) Get him to do the work for that price...(Blue book value...? get the book to buy it...)
Its worth what you can get for it. Period.
That is the most atrocious plumbing job I've seen in many years. If I did that I would WANT to hide it in a cabinet! Cheap hose, single clamps and I'm curious... does this go to a holding tank or a overboard thru hul? If it goes to the holding tank, there is no need for a vented loop to be that high. If it goes straight overboard, the Coast Guard will give you a wonderful written warning that will get you another appointment with a "good" plumber. No matter what, the handle on the Y-valve must be removed and "safely" stowed so only the Capt. can access it. Same goes for the thru-hull... handle removed or locked in the closed (for coastal or lake sailing) position. The Coast Guard will come aboard and put die in your head...If the water turns color, you WILL pay.
The only thing in your favor is.... if the Coasties do stop you and fine you... they yard "should" be held accountable for thier installation.
The only thing in your favor is.... if the Coasties do stop you and fine you... they yard "should" be held accountable for thier installation.
i just asked a queston; i am a part time sailor, not a lawyer. i think part of the purpose of this forum is to learn from our mutual mistakes and i think surveyors are liable for what they say or don't.
You might want to read the fine print on that one. I would be surprised if surveyors didn't make U sign a liability release clause before U get their report. I work as a building inspector, & if I didn't have some kind of liability limitation clause I couldn't even get insurance or stay in business. People will try to hold you accountable for faults that they find YEARS later. That said, I am one of the few who stand behind the reports I write.
Ps. Has anyone actually ever been boarded by the coast guard & had their head inspected?
Ps. Has anyone actually ever been boarded by the coast guard & had their head inspected?
hah. a few years ago a friend and i approached a state environmental cop at a boat show and complained about the difficulty to get a pump out stations to do their legally oblgated job. the advice this uniformed state cop gave us was "wait until dark.'
The Y valve directs flow to holding tank or overboard. There is a place for a small padlock
or tie-wrap. I got an incredible deal on the boat but now must construct a cover for this plumbing. I have been boarded by the Coast Guard before but they didn't inspect the head or plumbing.
or tie-wrap. I got an incredible deal on the boat but now must construct a cover for this plumbing. I have been boarded by the Coast Guard before but they didn't inspect the head or plumbing.
Guess I'm confused. If you have a holding tank why would you want to pump directly overboard? I know it can be a hassle to go to a pump out. But with a direct out to the water you can't use the head anyplace but 2 -3 miles out in the ocean, which by the way is OK to empty your holding tank as well. When the urge hits you at the dock and you don't think you can make it the 3 minute walk/run to the shore head the one on the boat is nice to have use of not to mention if you are away from the dock and are still inside that 3 mile limit it's nice not to have that smell in the boat till you get outside the limit. I almost always sail outside the 3 mile limit and find that when I am on a starboard tack, it is a good time to empty the holding tank. My boat uses the head sink drain for the ocean intake for the head, so I keep the though hull valve closed and put a quart or two of fresh water in the sink and then pump the fresh water into the holding tank. It cuts down on salt build up in the hose/tank and because I use the fresh water up faster I don't have to clean out my fresh water system as often as I turn it over more often. So again I ask why, if you have a holding tank available, would you even install a through hull dump for the head? Just wondering.
Brad, I don't understand. You just explained that going out 3 miles works. In one of my earlier replies to this topic I mentioned why I find it strange for folks to use holding tanks first before going directly overboard. Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't understand your last question after your great description. What I like is: head, choice of going into holding tank or overboard, pump out and macerator on HT (rather than everything going into the HT before going overboard by choice).
Stu,
I guess my confusion is in my assumption that if you have a holding tank you are going to use it so it wouldn't be empty when reaching the 3 mile limit. So having the "option" of emptying direct in the ocean would only make sense for me if you had an empty tank when you get there and my assumption is that you wouldn't. I don't get out to the 3 mile limit every time I use the boat, being in San Diego harbor it can take over an hour to get from my dock to the 3 mile limit and of course an hour back, so I have to have a holding tank or not use a head while on the boat, and that can make for a distressful afternoon.
I guess my confusion is in my assumption that if you have a holding tank you are going to use it so it wouldn't be empty when reaching the 3 mile limit. So having the "option" of emptying direct in the ocean would only make sense for me if you had an empty tank when you get there and my assumption is that you wouldn't. I don't get out to the 3 mile limit every time I use the boat, being in San Diego harbor it can take over an hour to get from my dock to the 3 mile limit and of course an hour back, so I have to have a holding tank or not use a head while on the boat, and that can make for a distressful afternoon.
Brad, sounds like you have the reasoning backwards. Regardless of whether the HT is full, empty or anywhere in between, once you get outside the limit, you do not have to put any more into the HT to flush. That's the only difference.
Just a note to sailors in the Chesapeake Bay and its tributaries, from The Ches. Bay Foundation:
..."Comply with the law and never dump sewage into the Bay. It is illegal to discharge raw sewage from any vessel anywhere in the Chesapeake Bay or its tributaries, regardless of proximity to a coastline. In open U.S. waters, it is illegal to discharge raw sewage within three miles of the coast.
Use holding tanks or portable toilets and on-shore pump-out stations to keep sewage out of the water. Consult cruising guides or boating almanacs for the location of pump-out stations on your route. "
Our boat is set up so that all waste goes into the holding tank. No Y-valve, and the through-hull for the macerator is wire-tied to remain closed. I heard on the radio recently that the Bay just got a D+ rating and the Potomac was rated the nation's #1 endangered river. :cry:
..."Comply with the law and never dump sewage into the Bay. It is illegal to discharge raw sewage from any vessel anywhere in the Chesapeake Bay or its tributaries, regardless of proximity to a coastline. In open U.S. waters, it is illegal to discharge raw sewage within three miles of the coast.
Use holding tanks or portable toilets and on-shore pump-out stations to keep sewage out of the water. Consult cruising guides or boating almanacs for the location of pump-out stations on your route. "
Our boat is set up so that all waste goes into the holding tank. No Y-valve, and the through-hull for the macerator is wire-tied to remain closed. I heard on the radio recently that the Bay just got a D+ rating and the Potomac was rated the nation's #1 endangered river. :cry:
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Stu. Guess we will disagree on this one. For the rare occasion I use the head outside the limit and not using the HT I don't want all the extra ugly plumbing. Not any extra hassle for me to flush into the holding tank and will dump outside the limit when I'm there. Don't have the extra hardware to maintain or deal with.
Waste!?
Many years ago while attending a Coast Guard emergency response meeting in a southeast coastal city, the issue of the new MSD classifications came up. I was living aboard my Coronado 35 sailboat at the time with a "direct discharge" system. I asked the Admiral who was in attendance a question during the break about macerated and chlorinated wastes discharged into a receiving stream that was brackish, salt and/or tidally influenced. He put his hand on my shouldert and said, "son, do you know what a single whale puts out everyday along our coasts"? He kinda put things in perspective back then (early 1980's). We have come along way in regulating MSDs, but no discharges within three miles of the coast, give me a break!?
Bob
19'88 Mark II
Many years ago while attending a Coast Guard emergency response meeting in a southeast coastal city, the issue of the new MSD classifications came up. I was living aboard my Coronado 35 sailboat at the time with a "direct discharge" system. I asked the Admiral who was in attendance a question during the break about macerated and chlorinated wastes discharged into a receiving stream that was brackish, salt and/or tidally influenced. He put his hand on my shouldert and said, "son, do you know what a single whale puts out everyday along our coasts"? He kinda put things in perspective back then (early 1980's). We have come along way in regulating MSDs, but no discharges within three miles of the coast, give me a break!?
Bob
19'88 Mark II
just shows you don't need brains to be an admiral. should we eliminate the whales so recreational sailors have water to dump their waste? are there more whales or weekend sailors? please, it's no big deal to obey the law, even if some admiral thinks not. there was a time when people, like whales, were rare, but those days are gone and we must adapt. or move inland. or drink and sail in waste.
I don't have exact numbers to back up what I'm about to say, but let me mention the following. Here on Long Island sound we are bordered on the north by New York and Connecticut, the south by Long Island, and the West by NYC. When it rains heavy, millions upon millions of gallons of rain water runs off over the land and into the water carrying who knows what number of particle pollutants from our streets and bacterial nutrients like nitrogen off our lawns and farms. In addition, it is a fact that in heavy rains, almost all of the NYC sanitary sewer (the one filled w/ sh-t) systems get over flooded and run into the storm sewers spilling MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF GALLONS OF SEWAGE into the waters. Although NYC Dept. of Environmental Protection has begun to update all of its sewage plants to prevent this, it is far from being completed.
So forgive me if I don't get too worked up over someone recycling some beer overboard.
http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/29/sewage-overflow-in-new-york-believe-it/
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