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Have Catalina 36 mkII circumnavigated the world?

Discussion in 'Ask A Catalina Owner' started by HinduKush, Dec 5, 2017. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    3,522 posts, 742 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    My point in my recent post "The Circle"
     


  2. Solarfy

    Solarfy

    Joined Jul 26, 2016
    80 posts, 11 likes
    American Sail 18
    US Granada Hills, California MDR
    Improved weather forecasting? They are close 10% of the time and way off 90%. If they built cars with that reliability they would fall to pieces at the factory door. Weather forecasting is the only prefession that would never make it anywhere else. They cannot even guess right. All the education is to support the pay.

    I look at radar image and pay no attention to forecasts. If they forecast rain 80% it will probably be a beautiful sunny day.

    Beneteau puts slippery floors on their powerboats. They look like travel trailers.
     


  3. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    7,531 posts, 1,352 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    You haven’t been paying attention. While shore/water interaction will always create differences in mostly cloud cover, the super-important global 3 day wind forecast has gotten insanely good. Against time, this corollates actual vs predicted pressure, which predicts wind. Over 98% accurate. The 10 day, which used to be almost a coin flip, is now 90% accurate.

    9426BD3E-BF97-44F0-9BC7-2BE553447E5C.jpeg
     


  4. Will Gilmore

    Will Gilmore

    Joined Oct 19, 2017
    588 posts, 147 likes
    O'Day 19
    US Littleton, NH Littleton, NH
    > :wow3:<
    That is not at all what I think of as a bluewater boat. I think a bluewater boat requires sacrifice. Giving up that closet space, that extra living space, the displacement given over to extras like hydraulic beds, etc. in order to carry spare parts, tools, food and water, a third and fourth anchor, storm jibs, life raft, wind generator, solar panels, tow behind alternator, charts charts charts, sextant, dry suit foul weather gear, radios, batteries, sat phone, sea anchors, emergency medical kit, ...
    But, that boat is more luxurious than any 5 star hotel I've ever stayed in.
    I remember now, the Amel of my father's had in-mast furling. I think that's why he liked the J boats, they sailed better. I do like center cockpits though and that hard dodger is nice.
    - Will ("your basic sailor", Dragonfly)
     


  5. Will Gilmore

    Will Gilmore

    Joined Oct 19, 2017
    588 posts, 147 likes
    O'Day 19
    US Littleton, NH Littleton, NH
    I've NEVER seen a 10 day forecast that was right. Never!
    I note all the time that NOAA usually gets the weather right, it's the time schedule they mess up on. But, 10 days out? Not even close. My BS is only 10 years old. I had to take an elective lab science and I choose weather. Our professor noted in class that of you took the statistical average for the weather recorded over time for a given date, you would achieve a forecast accuracy as good as any other method used, to date, for long range prediction.

    -Will (Dragonfly)
     


  6. Will Gilmore

    Will Gilmore

    Joined Oct 19, 2017
    588 posts, 147 likes
    O'Day 19
    US Littleton, NH Littleton, NH
    Jackdaw, you are going next year? You need crew? :waycool:
    - Will (Dragonfly)
     


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  7. JK_Boston_Catalina310

    JK_Boston_Catalina310

    Joined Nov 18, 2010
    1,846 posts, 42 likes
    Catalina 310
    US Hingham, MA
    This is off topic but cruisers generally don't care about the rain in the forecast. We expect to get rained on at some point during a passage. Where I am in the USVI, we get white out squalls almost daily in October, November and December. You can't forecast those, they just pop up but they aren't large and don't stir up the seas much.

    We want to know about big storms and systems. Right now I am waiting to see when the Christmas winds will fill in. Those can churn up the seas and make for some uncommon sailing.

    The Euro was spot on for Irma and very close for Maria. With Irma I had two weeks notice and was able to sail out of the path. With Maria I had 5 days. There was time to sail out of the path but half of the places we could go were just wiped out by Irma so that made it hard. If it was just Maria without Irma two weeks prior we would have been able to run from that as well.

    Our friends just did a 12 day passage from Vero Beach to St. Thomas, going north of the Bahamas and then turning south once they were due north of the Virgin Islands. They had decent weather forecasts the whole time from SSB and their InReach.

    Regardless of the forecast good seamanship will have you reefing almost every night before sunset. But having that forecast really helps.
     


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  8. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    7,531 posts, 1,352 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    How true. When Jodi and I started dating, she would remark to her friends that when she asked me what the weather was going tot be like, I would say '10-14 out of the SW'. When she asked me about the sun, I said I didn't notice.

    Pressure the key to all things in marine weather. Shore interactions can cause funny things like sea and land breeze, and also effect cloud cover. That will bedevil a micro-forecast. But on the open sea, where it matters, they got pressure sussed.
     


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  9. Kings Gambit

    Kings Gambit

    Joined Jul 27, 2011
    2,361 posts, 322 likes
    Bavaria 38E
    US Ventura Harbor
    The 10-day forecasts are not always "wrong." Some minor aspects of the details may change as that 10th day approaches, but otherwise they're basically sound. For example, the guys at the weather service can detect the formation of weather (cold) fronts in the Arctic, and predict their respective arrivals in Southern CA 10 days out, etc. Statistically speaking, high pressure then builds in the Great Basin following the fronts which brings NE winds typically of advisory level strength. So, they can predict the fronts' arrivals and the conditions that likely will follow them. Actually, a very similar thing occurs during late fall, winter, and spring in Florida. A cold front predicted several days in advance marches through, followed by high pressure that builds off the coast of South Carolina bringing strong NE winds across Florida the next day and for a few days hence. That's when the great sailing is to be had along Florida's SW coast (although it might be a little too cool for some folks). One to three, or four, days following the passage of a cold front. VERY PREDICTABLE.:clap: Clean, fresh air on strong to medium gusty NE winds, and blue skies! Just fabulous. Gotta love it!!:dancing:
     


    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
    Will Gilmore likes this.
  10. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    3,522 posts, 742 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    I feel weather prognosticators are getting better but you have to take there information as a “changing suggestion “ and not bet the farm on the outcome.
    I follow a local guys forecast, Rufus. He serves the farmers in Oregon with high confidence forward looking forecasts.
    That said even he gets blindsided by atmospheric changes the occur.
    You need to remember forecasting is based on data, patterns, and historical knowledge. A front speeding up or slowing down changes the parameters and the weather.

    There is quite a bit of info on the benefits of looking at the upper level patterns to gain a direction for low level weather conditions. This will mean you need to get into the nitty gritty of weather maps to understand what the stuff is telling you. You need to decide. Are you going to plan for the weather or react to it.

    I also like the weather site “PassageWeather”. The graphics help to paint the images of what is happening to the wind, pressure, wave and temperatures for my area as well as out in the Pacific.

    Then I adapt.
     


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  11. Franklin

    Franklin

    Joined Jul 20, 2005
    2,291 posts, 60 likes
    Hunter 376
    US Out there somewhere. Kemah, Tx
    From a guy who is going around the world, I can tell you that 36+ Catalinas are fine designed just fine. The way I see it as far as safety and strength, it goes Catalina, Hunter, some of the others....then Beneteaus. I see lots of Beneteaus out here but mostly in the 40s and 50s range as well as all the other production boats. I do not think any of the smaller (<35) are suitable but the bigger ones are.

    I sail a 1996 Hunter 376. It is a boat that has a good design and is just as strong as most other boats crossing the Pacific, but the interior was poorly constructed. I fixed that. Sure, there are some heavy, solidly built boats out here, but most are just medium weighted boats. Take the 360 IP which has about the same hull size as my 376 if you do not include the swim platform: if you subtract the keels from the boats, they basically weigh the same, but yet the common thought is that IPs are built like tanks and Hunters are built like IKEA furniture. There is a lot of mis-information out there and that is bred by exterior looks and rumors.

    Yes, it is the captain and crew who will determine if the boat is good enough. Some boats of all makes have defects and it is up to the captain to find and fix those defects. That and maintenance is the largest determining factor in whether a boat is capable for crossing oceans. Last year there was a guy crossing in a old 42' Catalina and he broke a couple stays. Luckily he noticed it in time and took corrective action so he could keep going, but the real issue is he was sailing on original rigging...about 30 years old. He was not a smart captain but he sure did think he was. He was one of those know it all types. I found great humor in that :)

    It seems to me that the British followed by the Americans are the ones who are most concerned about taking the right boat with the French seeming to care the least.

    I am going to wrap this up into one simple rule: if you have to ask if a boat is capable, then you are not capable (yet). Sorry but that tells me you do not know enough about boats to be able to find defects, find maintenance issues and fix them before and during your travels. A captain needs to know his boat inside and out. He needs to know how thick things are, where are the weak points, how are things put together, how much mileage/usage each and every part of the boat has, what needs fixing and/or improving and how to do it. If you do not own the boat you can't know all of this, but you should be able to figure out most of this by inspecting it.
     


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  12. Kings Gambit

    Kings Gambit

    Joined Jul 27, 2011
    2,361 posts, 322 likes
    Bavaria 38E
    US Ventura Harbor
    Franklin--hope things are going well for you there. Always nice to hear from you. You bring up a point that I hear often; if you take away the features of an expensive boat that make it expensive, then you basically have a Catalina or a Hunter, etc. A good solid boat w/o the trim level of an expensive one. But the keel? Take away the keel that gives the IP its displacement and superior (more seaworthy) righting moment, and you have a Hunter bouncing across the ocean--so they're basically the same boat? Am hearing this correctly?:doh: I suppose one could cross the ocean in a canoe if it does not sink. Just look at the account of Shackleton's run from Elephant Island to South Georgia Island for accomplishing the impossible in a small open boat--but who would want to?
     


  13. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    7,531 posts, 1,352 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    Lots of good truths in that post!

    I have to note with some irony that the last well publicized circumnavigation (and a Great Cape one to boot!) was done by a Brit in a Beneteau... ;^) Solo (and deaf) as well.

    yandy91452.jpg

    But than again it was a FIRST, so that's a different beast.
     


  14. Franklin

    Franklin

    Joined Jul 20, 2005
    2,291 posts, 60 likes
    Hunter 376
    US Out there somewhere. Kemah, Tx
    I am not comparing rides, but strength of the boat. Yes, there were times I wished I had the keel of an IP, but more often I have been very glad I had the keel I have so I can sail instead of motor. A friend of mine has an older IP the same size as my boat. We were marina slip neighbors for years back in Texas. I met up with them a few years ago in the Bahamas and we did a few legs together. In 8 knots true wind, close reaching, I was able to sail at 6+ knots. They were sailing a 3.5 knots and had to turn on their motor. I sail in a lot of light winds that other's can't like this year's trip to American Samoa we had 8-11 knots true wind at 160 true wind angle and I was sailing with jib poled out and main doing 5-7 knots in the water.
     


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  15. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    7,531 posts, 1,352 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    OK thats interesting. How are you measuring strength? Certainly not on hull failures; that happily almost never happens. My measure is oilcanning, and my personal experience has Hunters doing that more than all other boats I've been on combined.
     


  16. Franklin

    Franklin

    Joined Jul 20, 2005
    2,291 posts, 60 likes
    Hunter 376
    US Out there somewhere. Kemah, Tx
    Hunter uses the typical cored hull above the waterline and cored deck to save on weight, so if even with their weight savings they are still just as heavy as an IP, then they are not all that much different than an IP. How are you measuring 'oilcanning'? I know that my boat had 17 creaks in it making me feel it was weak and 'oilcanning' a lot, but after finding and fixing the noises, I know it is no different than any other boat. How many boats can say they don't creak and don't leak? Mine doesn't :) Does it flex? Yes, all boats do. I do not have any stress cracks on the hull though so it doesn't flex much.

    As for righting ability, a lot more goes into it than just weight of the keel and do not I hear of monohulls capsizing and not coming back up as long as the keel stays attached but usually they do have considerable damage such as broken masts. That is a different thread but I'll just say I prefer to make sure I don't capsize :)
     


  17. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    7,531 posts, 1,352 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    Exactly right, all boats flex or 'work' when in a big seaway. Oilcanning is typically the flex of a span of glass between reinforcing stations, which usually means that the glass itself or the scantlings are underbuilt.

    As for keels and capsize, if you keep the boat off the bricks the keel will stay on. A big enough wave will capsize ANY boat of the same LOA, regardless of keel config. How it come back is a function of its stability curve. Any you're right, you'll be lucky to have a rig.
     


  18. Franklin

    Franklin

    Joined Jul 20, 2005
    2,291 posts, 60 likes
    Hunter 376
    US Out there somewhere. Kemah, Tx
    I understand what oilcanning is, just wondering how you are measuring it to determine Hunters are worse than others. And what size Hunters?
     


  19. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    3,522 posts, 742 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    Franklin. I understand that oil caning is observed as flex in fiberglass hull surface between two fixed points (between bulk heads or internal reinforcements such as interior pan tabs) on the boats hull. These gaps permit the not stiffened hull to flex. Early FBS construction (pre 1980's) addressed this by thickening the hull in the mold, laying additional layers fiberglass and resin in build up. This added weight to the hull. I know that the CAL 40 was known to have this issue. It negatively affected the boat speed.
    Sounds like you have found these gaps and modified the boat to resolve the issue.
     


  20. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    7,531 posts, 1,352 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    Exactly what I said. My personal observations. I say that majority of them were earlier models, 28-34 feet.
     


  21. Franklin

    Franklin

    Joined Jul 20, 2005
    2,291 posts, 60 likes
    Hunter 376
    US Out there somewhere. Kemah, Tx
    No. When I say I fixed my creaks, I did not strengthen the boat per say, just fixed the factory defects. The cause of the creaking were due to these defects: deck liner having defective overlapping excess glass touching bulkheads, no caulking between liner and bulkheads in many places, ineffective joinery work on settee, settee rubbing on bulkhead due to improper mounting, no caulking between bulkhead and deck with the two touching. A lot of fixes were just adding caulking. Some I had to cut into the liner to get to the defect to fix. Some I had to add material to strengthen the joinery. Some I had to actually join because it wasn't joined at all. Every single one of my creaks could have been prevented with proper supervision during the construction of the boat.

    I did not stop the boat from flexing, I stopped the boat from rubbing two peaces that should not be directly touching each other. If a boat is built properly, it will not creak while it flexes. The problem is boats are built by humans and we humans rarely get things perfect.

    I do not see my boat flexing or oilcanning as you guys like to call it when I am offshore, but I know it is.
     



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