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Have Catalina 36 mkII circumnavigated the world?

Discussion in 'Ask A Catalina Owner' started by HinduKush, Dec 5, 2017. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. HinduKush

    HinduKush

    Joined Dec 5, 2017
    1 posts, 1 likes
    catalina 36 mkII
    us Florida Florida
    I am new to Catalina but when I saw them at the 2017 St. Pete boat show. I thought the quality was much better than a French Beneteau or Jenneau. ?? What are your thought about Circumnavigation with Catalina 36 early 2000's
     


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  2. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    3,522 posts, 742 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    @HinduKush At the outset, sailing around the world is more about the crew and how they set the boat up as it is about a boat you can buy at a marina. I come by this knowledge by extensive reading and coastal sailing. I have not circumnavigated the world. Maybe it will happen. It is a bucket list item.

    That said. I provide you a resource. http://bluewaterboats.org/catalina-27/ I know it describes the Catalina 27 not the 36. The 27 is the grand father of the 36. Many of the design ideas are similar but on a grander scale. Guessign that you found the interior more appealing than the other boats mentioned. I sure find the interior a comfortable place to enjoy.

    I suggest the idea of "Circumnavigation" is much more than a comparison of "early 2000" sail boats.
     


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  3. Will Gilmore

    Will Gilmore

    Joined Oct 19, 2017
    588 posts, 147 likes
    O'Day 19
    US Littleton, NH Littleton, NH
    I agree and I also don't have circumnavigation experience although my father does and I use to live aboard with him. Taught me most of what I know. The biggest secret is planning and paying attention. Don't put yourself in a position where you HAVE to go NOW or the weather will surely go against you.
    Know your boat, have spare parts and tools and be prepared for the weather to not do what you expect it to do.
    I also don't know the Catelina 36 but, 36' seems like a great size and lots of boats in that class have been sailing the world's oceans for decades. It should be self-righting, in case of a knock down, the rig should be easy to work single-handed and easy to reef. I can't imagine that a new Catalina 36 wouldn't meet those specs. There's a lot more to consider. I know others on this forum will know more and be eager to help. I hope you get the answers you are searching for and good sailing.
    - Will (Dragonfly)
     


  4. Benny17441

    Benny17441

    Joined May 24, 2004
    5,210 posts, 256 likes
    CC 30
    US South Florida
    My thoughts? Catalinas are production boats designed for coastal cruising. A huge cockpit is a sign of a boat designed more for entertaining than crossing oceans. The hull shape that accommodates a large cockpit does not provide the most comfortable sea motion. The great majority of production boat buyers want a boat for daysailing, weekending and light coastal trips at a good price. The manufacturer delivers a quality boat to meet that purpose without the added cost that high grade components and fixtures would impart. Nowadays with improved weather forecasting and satellite communications is very possible for a prudent sailor to stay away from large weather systems. I can certainly see a well equipped and prepared Catalina36 with upgraded rigging and fixtures and with an able crew being able to circumnavigate. A 15 year old boat would definitely require some upgrades; the standing rigging, components and steering system come to mind. A sailor defined cruising as "making repairs to the boat in exotic places". In a circumnavigation the boat will likely require some serious repairs along the way.
     


  5. JK_Boston_Catalina310

    JK_Boston_Catalina310

    Joined Nov 18, 2010
    1,846 posts, 42 likes
    Catalina 310
    US Hingham, MA
    We live on our Catalina 310. We have sailed her from Boston to the Caribbean. Just a few months ago she survived the northeast eye wall of Maria at a dock in Puerto Rico. That was winds over 170 knots. She came through without a scratch. So in my opinion a well crewed Catalina in good condition can sail almost anywhere.

    I'm not positive on any 36s circumnavigating but 400s, 42s, 470s and a highly modified 27 have. A stock 30 did the Pacific from California to Australia or New Zealand.

    As others have said, it's more about the crew than the boat.
     


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  6. Kings Gambit

    Kings Gambit

    Joined Jul 27, 2011
    2,361 posts, 322 likes
    Bavaria 38E
    US Ventura Harbor
    On your question folks here often defer to crew experience and preparedness as the gold standard as to whether or not a certain model of sailboat might make a circumnavigation. Certainly, that is ultimately true even though vessels have been found abandoned, or otherwise floating for years, w/o living crew aboard (e.g., the case of the mummified German sailor). The question should be is the vessel built and equipped well enough to withstand the rigors of a 25,000 n.mi. journey and bring everyone home safely? So, you mention quality. Normally, quality and price/cost rise and fall together. The best built blue-water vessels are much more expensive than Catalinas at any given length. Why is this? Higher quality materials? Stronger construction? More safety features? Greater endurance with comfort, etc.? It's hard to imagine that someone would actually choose a Catalina for a circumnavigation if s/he could have a Swan, Moody, or even a Tartan, instead. But if that's the boat you have and you wish to attempt it, then I suppose you could get a bunch of other Catalina owners to agree, yeah--the boat's enough good for that if you're good enough!!:thumbup:
     


    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
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  7. JK_Boston_Catalina310

    JK_Boston_Catalina310

    Joined Nov 18, 2010
    1,846 posts, 42 likes
    Catalina 310
    US Hingham, MA
    Your observations on the abandon boats floating proves the point. The boat can take far more than the crew, in most instances. So it's the experienced crew that knows when to sail with what configuration and what safety precautions to take. The right sea, at the right time going in the right direction.
    Who is doing 25,000 nm in one shot unless they are trying to set some kind of record? You need a boat that can go a month or two of sailing and the level of comfort in doing this varies greatly. What the Pardey's were fine with most would never want to try. They also lacked modern technology that helps make more things possible. Watermakers that allow you to shower while crossing oceans. Solar panels that allow you to have refrigeration and watch TV when off watch. Satellite communication that allows detailed weather forecasts while thousands of miles from land. Materials and construction techniques that can make things stronger at a fraction of the weight. Computer aided designs that can be more efficient than wooden model test hulls.

    I would say it's pretty insane to think the same boat requirements that were desired or viewed as good in the 1960s are the same today.

    Name recognition? Marketing hype? Brand snobs? Magic pixie dust?

    Certainly there are times that price is correlated to quality but it's not always or even often. With production boats there are lots of areas where corners are cut in the name of cost. Installing system before joining the hull and deck is one. It makes maintenance harder, at least the first time you have to do something. But it doesn't make the boats less safe.

    They wouldn't make them weaker either, that makes no sense. There are far more things to hit near land then out at sea.

    Look at the list of safety features built into a 5 series Catalina. Show me another boat better built with safety in mind. Maybe an Etap. Catalina was among the first builders to go to vinylester resigns and eliminate blistering. One of the first to use bidirectional and cross woven fiberglass to add strength. One of the first to adopt vacuum bagging to full wet out the fiber glass at a lower weight. One of the first to eliminate core material below the waterline. One of the first to design core free areas for mounting critical deck hardware so bad maintenance doesn't compromise safety.

    Certainly there are some times when they choose a price point hardware choice. But these hardware items are still safe for ocean use. Are there better quality parts that could be used? Probably, but that doesn't compromise safety or integrity. Its a buying choice. I don't always buy the best, most expensive of any item.

    Here is how I liken the decision. The Catalina, Beneteau or Jenneau are like a Toyota. It's well built, not too flashy and get you where you are going.

    The Moody, Swan, Tartan, Hinkley or Island Packet is like a Lexus or a Mercedes. More refined, more bells and whistles, better build quality, etc. But most importantly the prestige of owning something with that coveted logo.

    People look at all the impressive bright work on the Swan and think how pretty it is. I look at the lack of exterior wood on my Catalina and think less maintenance and more time free diving for fish and lobster. Sure, she is not at pretty but she is what I wanted, easily maintained and easy to sail.

    I could continue working at the office job and one day maybe be out in the Lexus. Or I can go now in the Toyota and earn enough to keep doing it by sailing other people's Hinkleys who are too busy to move their boat from port to port.
     


  8. Kings Gambit

    Kings Gambit

    Joined Jul 27, 2011
    2,361 posts, 322 likes
    Bavaria 38E
    US Ventura Harbor
    Yeah--but we're talking about a circumnavigation, even if not in one long trip; something I had not meant to suggest. Sure, Catalina, Beneteau, BAVARIA, Hunter, and etc., due to their fine qualities that you mention, are superb models for the short-hop/weekend sailor. And Lord knows, I have not waited myself to afford the higher-quality vessel, at least at the point were higher quality equals much higher cost, before going sailing. (To the contrary, I've often mused as to why someone needs an IP380 to go across the San Pedro Channel to Catalina Island and hang on a mooring a few times a year during summer?:doh:) But then I'm not contemplating an around-the-world trek in the Bavaria. By the time I got it ready to do that I may as well have traded her in and just bought myself a world class, blue-water cruiser--preowned, of course!!;)
     


    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  9. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    7,531 posts, 1,352 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    Maybe between themselves and Hunter, but these techniques were in place in many builders before they showed up in Cats. But I do agree, the 5-series are pretty well built.
     


  10. Will Gilmore

    Will Gilmore

    Joined Oct 19, 2017
    588 posts, 147 likes
    O'Day 19
    US Littleton, NH Littleton, NH
    Let me chime in on the most excellent point about strength being needed in a coastal cruiser. It is true but, the consequences of system failure are not usually as severe even if more likely near the coast.
    Ocean crossing is about necessary independence and isolation from modern resources other than what you bring your self.
    However, good planing and calm heads are mostly what it takes to cross an ocean. My wife and I joined my parents and a friend on a crossing from Newport to Bermuda (4 days), Bermuda to the Azores (14 days), Azores to Ireland (7 days). Months is an extreme that means something went wrong besides the boat.
    The 4 days to Bermuda was pure beat, no sun for 4 days. The Bermuda to Azores leg was bright and sunny and glass calm, motored most of the way. A stormy reach to Ireland. We washed our hair in soda water to conserve drinking water. In retrospect, soda water is drinking water. We all had a great time. Confined on 50' was no problem. 36'? I'm in.
    - Will (Dragonfly)
     


  11. JK_Boston_Catalina310

    JK_Boston_Catalina310

    Joined Nov 18, 2010
    1,846 posts, 42 likes
    Catalina 310
    US Hingham, MA
    Keep thinking that. And I'll keep making new friends in Bavarias, Benny's, Jenny's and Catalinas who arrive here in the Caribbean after crossing the pond on their keels. Some completing circumnavigations and talking about doing it again.

    Please wait until you can afford that "world class, blue-water cruiser". The anchorages can get crowded down here already and anything that keeps a few more boats away.
     


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  12. Kings Gambit

    Kings Gambit

    Joined Jul 27, 2011
    2,361 posts, 322 likes
    Bavaria 38E
    US Ventura Harbor
    This like saying "truth" is whatever someone is willing to believe--from their own perspective. Thus, a boat that crosses blue water is a blue-water cruiser, etc.? Fair enough!:biggrin:(BTW: I love my Bavaria. It does extremely well that which it was designed to do--take two couples to the Island for the weekend, in comfort.)
     


    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  13. stevenhagberg

    stevenhagberg

    Joined May 24, 2013
    3 posts, 1 likes
    Catalina 30
    US Marina Del Rey
    One person's experience is found in a book by Peter Jenvay, "Life And The Sudden Death of Salt Peter".
    It recounts his off shore adventures in his Catalina 36. It was interesting reading.
     


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  14. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    7,531 posts, 1,352 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    Indeed, if you look at events like the ARC you see that the vast majority of boats making the crossing at production boats in the 40-50 foot range.

    A so-called blue water boat will offer increased comfort and safety margins, but the average production boat in that range will be capable of that type of crossing with reasonable planning and prep.

    Given the choice between doing it in a Beneteau 50 next year or an Amel 50 in ten years, I'm going next year.
     


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  15. Will Gilmore

    Will Gilmore

    Joined Oct 19, 2017
    588 posts, 147 likes
    O'Day 19
    US Littleton, NH Littleton, NH
    My father had an Amel 50. It was a nice boat but still pretty basic. That's why I liked it. Of course that was 20+ years ago. I have no idea what they are like now. I think he traded it in for a J44. He liked the J boats a lot. I'll have to ask him but I think the 44 was the one he took around the world.
    - Will (Dragonfly)
     


  16. JK_Boston_Catalina310

    JK_Boston_Catalina310

    Joined Nov 18, 2010
    1,846 posts, 42 likes
    Catalina 310
    US Hingham, MA
    Yeah, it's my redefining truth. (Going to call me "fake news" next?)

    The European Union as evident by a CE "A" rating, the insurance industry by insuring Catalinas for open ocean passages at reasonable rate ($1200 for our 310), the many boats that participate in the ARC, Caribbean 1500, Baha Haha, etc. are all also making up their own truths. Or could it be that you notions of what a boat needs to be to sail the oceans are routed in the 1960s and 1970s?
     


  17. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    7,531 posts, 1,352 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    All boats 30+ years ago were pretty basic. The Amel 50 is a brand new boat... Older Amels were give product names (like Maramu). The new 50 is an amazing craft. If you've got 15 minutes prepare to have your mind blown. This pretty much defines what is a modern blue water boat. Watch in full screen HD.



    Given a choice today between a new Pogo 50 and an Amel 50 I'd probably take the Pogo, but I would think LONG AND HARD about it. In 15 years I'd probably take the Amel.
     


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  18. Kings Gambit

    Kings Gambit

    Joined Jul 27, 2011
    2,361 posts, 322 likes
    Bavaria 38E
    US Ventura Harbor
    I'll not forget that day I boarded a nice Valliant 40 for the first time at the St. Petersburg boat show around 1988, and then a newish Pacific Seacraft 37 that same day. I swooned; but, alas--no more. Only Catalinas, Hunters, Beneteaus, Bavarias, & Dufours. Your basic "MacBoat" collection is all you (typically) see. How inexpensively can you build the basic yacht and still have it be distinctive? I think we are under that now.:wahwah:
     


    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  19. Kings Gambit

    Kings Gambit

    Joined Jul 27, 2011
    2,361 posts, 322 likes
    Bavaria 38E
    US Ventura Harbor
    It's no longer the man against the sea--it's man against technology!:yikes:
     


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  20. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    3,522 posts, 742 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    Great decision... May not be here 10 years from now...
     



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