H260 Single line reefing

Nov 10, 2017
258
Hunter Legend 260 Epidavros
God knows why Hunter did not make this a standard fit at the point of build? I am really hoping to rig a single line reefing system to my H260 for the point of safety. I've looked through the history of posts but I can one posted and this has been rigged to the outside of the boom which I don't wish to use because of this interfering with the stack bag system. There is another with the use of extensive number of pulley blocks.
I am unsure who's boom I'm dealing with but I'm presuming it is of a Z spars breed. My question is, has anyone tried and succeeded to open up the upward slot at the gooseneck end of the boom and renegotiate the camcleat and pulley block to take a working reefing line upwards to the forward reefing point before bringing it back down on a return journey via blocks to the cockpit.
If this has been done could we please reply if possible with some photos or at worst a diagram, this would be most helpful but any assistance will of course be appreciated.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Hey GB, I'll let others tackle the 260-specific details of single line reefing. In general, the concept gets mixed reviews in small boats, usually around if the complexity and friction is worth it on a 180 sqr/ft mainsail. But for the H260 I can see why you want it; the total lack of sidedecks makes a visit to the mast-base a lot more risky then it need be. For the builder, the factors are build cost that has to be passed on, and even most simply, if the spec'ed boom has the correct top-side exists to support it. They don't control that. If it doesn't then its a non-starter.
 
Nov 10, 2017
258
Hunter Legend 260 Epidavros
Hey GB, I'll let others tackle the 260-specific details of single line reefing. In general, the concept gets mixed reviews in small boats, usually around if the complexity and friction is worth it on a 180 sqr/ft mainsail. But for the H260 I can see why you want it; the total lack of sidedecks makes a visit to the mast-base a lot more risky then it need be. For the builder, the factors are build cost that has to be passed on, and even most simply, if the spec'ed boom has the correct top-side exists to support it. They don't control that. If it doesn't then its a non-starter.
Hey Jackdaw, thank you for coming back to me so quickly. You are completely correct about the total lack of sidedecks plus the very low guard wires,
these are not good for me as I'm quite a big fellow.
The guardwires don't even come close to reaching the height my knees which by the way have both being totally replaced. Also, I'm no spring chicken but reasonably agile with a good sense of balance but in the realms of safety, I just don't like the climbing up on to the coachroof when sailing.
With sailing single handed I can only see it as commonsense to be able to reef with one hand and release the main with the other, all in the safety of the cockpit which to me should not come under number crunching accountants sat in an office. At worst the provision should have been there from the onset.

Just as an after thought, I wonder over the years how many mariners have gone over the side on these little Hunters?
 
Jun 25, 2004
1,108
Corsair F24 Mk1 003 San Francisco Bay, CA
This may not be the aspnswer you were hoping for, but it’s solid advice based on years of experience in the sailmaking profession.

If the stack bag is in the way, modify it so the reefing lines can exit as needed where they need to be tied around the boom. It’s much easier to customize the canvas bag than the interior of the boom. We built stack packs with this feature frequently.

I would recommend a two line system because it works a lot better than a single line system. The system needs to secure the luff before loading the reef clew, and a single line system fails to meet that criterion. Single line systems generate too much friction. Single line systems sound appealing, but experience has taught us that they are harder to use.

Judy
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes: Jackdaw
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
This may not be the aspnswer you were hoping for, but it’s solid advice based on years of experience in the sailmaking profession.

If the stack bag is in the way, modify it so the reefing lines can exit as needed where they need to be tied around the boom. It’s much easier to customize the canvas bag than the interior of the boom. We built stack packs with this feature frequently.

I would recommend two line system because they work a lot better than single line system. The system needs to secure the luff before loading the reef clew, and a single line system fails to meet that criteria. Single line systems generate too much friction. Single line systems sound appealing, but experience has taught us that they are harder to use.

Judy
Judy brings up a great point, you can have the same functionality with two lines, one dedicated to the tack. This would work without any boom modifications, just run the line up one side of the luff, through the reefing crinkle and attach securely to the reefing horn.
 
Nov 10, 2017
258
Hunter Legend 260 Epidavros
Judy and Jackdaw, thank you for your replies. They are appreciated and I do understand where you are coming from.
Why I am looking at single reef is obviously for ease and a tidier cockpit of lines, blocks and clutches, I have no idea of the stress due to the friction but if it is at all possible I would like to crack on. If I do find it too much I can then revert to a two line system without to much effort. The first system I saw was with cheek blocks on the outside of the boom. This is why I rejected this idea because the stack bag not because of tethering the aft leech line.
BTW you are right Judy, it is easier to mod the stack bag than trying to work around it but for me I don't think it will hamper me.
Another I have seen looks more like a conveyor belt system in Dahl's WW&TCF. There is another with a double ended sliding within the boom which I think is way OTT for a boat this size.
Justin has just posted a +1 also with a 2 line system so it looks like that might be the way to go . . . .unless ?
 
Mar 18, 2019
16
Irwin 32 Corpus Chiristi, TX
Personally I'd be very reluctant to make any modifications to the boom. They are engineered to take a lot of force. DrJudyB is smart and experienced. I'd listen to her on this point.
 
  • Like
Likes: DrJudyB
Jun 25, 2004
1,108
Corsair F24 Mk1 003 San Francisco Bay, CA
Judy and Jackdaw, thank you for your replies. They are appreciated and I do understand where you are coming from.
Why I am looking at single reef is obviously for ease and a tidier cockpit of lines, blocks and clutches, I have no idea of the stress due to the friction but if it is at all possible I would like to crack on. If I do find it too much I can then revert to a two line system without to much effort. The first system I saw was with cheek blocks on the outside of the boom. This is why I rejected this idea because the stack bag not because of tethering the aft leech line.
BTW you are right Judy, it is easier to mod the stack bag than trying to work around it but for me I don't think it will hamper me.
Another I have seen looks more like a conveyor belt system in Dahl's WW&TCF. There is another with a double ended sliding within the boom which I think is way OTT for a boat this size.
Justin has just posted a +1 also with a 2 line system so it looks like that might be the way to go . . . .unless ?
I undertand your desire for fewer lines in the cockpit, but a "simple, single line" system won't function properly on a boat the size of the H260 in storm conditions. It might be okay to design a system like that for a dinghy, with very light loads on the sail, but for a boat the size of yours you risk tearing the mainsail at the slides or at the bolt rope.

How are you going to ensure that the reefed luff is firmly secured against the aft face of the mast before the the reef clew gets tightened? It simply can not be done with a single line running through the front and aft reef cringles. It can be easily accomplished with a dual line system - one line for the front of the reef and one for the back of the reef.

To have a single control line, you'd need to have less purchase on the front of the system than the back to accomplish that, and that's complicated. To get everything to work by pulling a single control line, you'll need a shuttle car inside the boom, providing at least twice the mechanical advantage on the aft reef cringle compared to the purchase on the forward reef cringlewith the length of the two inside line carefully proprortioned. The front reef must be secured be fore there is any load on the aft one.

(This illustration is from Selden's Sailmaker's Guide. See http://www.seldenmast.com/files/595-542-E.pdf )

upload_2019-3-20_15-21-4.png


Judy
 
Last edited:

Gunni

.
Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
Single-line reefing has been done on Beneteau’s for 2 decades at least. Sheaves shown on the boom are inside the front and back of the boom. You will need to add cheek blocks on the sail as shown. You make this system easy to use by marking your halyard at each of the reef points. Drop the main while pulling the slack out of the single line reefer. When the mainsail gets to the proper location (as indicated by your halyard mark), you clutch/cleat it off and finish pulling the reef in tight.


BA61C961-8475-4DD4-8C14-03C1F0A6F239.gif
 
Mar 18, 2019
16
Irwin 32 Corpus Chiristi, TX
My point was more for the boom itself. I'm certain that Beneteau designed their boom with the added stresses from the beginning. You may have considered this, but an internal structure between the sheaves might be a part of Beneteau's design or possible heavier gauge boom, maybe both. I've never looked at one or looked at any comparisons. There will however be added stress in between the sheaves, possible more than the boom was designed for. I can't say, but I'd take a good look for the design spces of the boom in question.....not saying it can't be done, but that'd be the first question, in my mind.
 
Nov 10, 2017
258
Hunter Legend 260 Epidavros
Thanks guys for your replies and concerns though I'm not sure about the stress factors mentioned. It is my intention is to reef with no stress, as Gunni has indicated too but of course I only have one reef to deal with.
The one Judy shows in her diagram is exactly the Selden system I had on my Belliure 50 but that was a completely different entity because of the 3 reefs, sail area and sail weight.
The way I have always reefed in the past is to release uphaul, drop to desired level, pull the reef line under no load untill the clew and the tack of the first reef are down to the boom and then raise on the uphaul. I don't see any great tension there?
Of course there will be friction which is unknown until I decide whether to proceed or not. If I do proceed I was planning to pulley block the first reef at the clew and tack to make lighter work.
 
Aug 5, 2017
10
Hunter 270 Borden
GB we have single line reef line on our 270 routed back to the double spin lock on the port side. We can do this under windy conditions.....making the connection on the gooseneck takes a second though. I wish the picture was a bit better. I dislike the cam lock on the front of the boom.....I rig everything to the back of the boat. It does take a lot of line but it works great and well under racing conditions. Rig the line normally thru the boom up to the back of the sail (I use a 29mm Carbo block) on dineema with a 1” ball on the starboard side then down to the boom and terminate. When the line comes out of the front of boom take it down to your mast base on port side around another pulley (change of direction) and up to your front reef point on the sail (this has another Carbo 29mm block on dineema and a stopper ball) then back down to the mast base block then to the back of the boat. The original design was difficult when my wife and I were sailing and needed to be upgraded. I wrap it around the winch then loosen the halyard and crank it down......all controlled and smooth then tie off the sail to the boom with 4mm line and off you go. I think it took 60’ of 8mm, give it a lot of slack when raising the main or it will bind up. We also run the outhaul the same way.....out the front of boom bown to the mast base then to the spin lock and winch.....again all controlled. I try to minimize how much you have to get up on top of the boat. We race every week during season and all the systems have worked flawless under those conditions.
 

Attachments

Nov 10, 2017
258
Hunter Legend 260 Epidavros
You can sort of make out the blocks on the sail. It is like the beneteau just I ran the line out of the boom down to the mast base block and back up vs modifying the front of boom. Hope that helps
Thank you for taking the time to give me your version of the described single line reefing on your H270. I think I get the gist but as you say the pictures could be more informative but I'm sure you didn't take them for my benefit.
Of course this does help thank you, especially for the encouragement to say that single line reefing does work well for you even in racing conditions which in the later will never be an issue for me.
Anyone else done similar?
 
Nov 14, 2018
75
Hunter 26 / 33.5 Eden isle, Greer’s ferry lake
On the beneteau reef system are the blocks attached to the sail as it’s made or can they be added. Rog
 
Nov 10, 2017
258
Hunter Legend 260 Epidavros
On the beneteau reef system are the blocks attached to the sail as it’s made or can they be added. Rog
I very much doubt any Bennie would have come with blocks unless specified but they can definitely be added.