H22 Cockpit Drain Question

[rockp2]

Hello,
I am restoring an H22. Recently I had the drains fro the cockpit freeze up and the short story is I climbed inside under the cockpit sole to use a heat gun. I have posted 2 pics. The reason for this is due to another forum. As you can see from the first pic (Drain) the hoses remind me of a trap on a sink. This struck me as odd because it would mean the water in the "trap" would freeze regularly.

It looks to me to be the original hoses and not changed in anyway. I was told in another post when I described this that the hoses should run downhill only. I stated I would take pics and post in this forum to gain insight. The second pic (Drain2) is to show that it does not appear there was any type of hanger or fastener to raise the hoses.

Any help would be appreciated and if someone has another H22 please let me know if your cockpit drain hoses look the same.

DISCLAIMER: Please overlook the "nastiness" of the hoses. As part of my restoration I will be cleaning, inspecting and replaing the parts neccessary. Just not there yet.

 

[Clark]

We used to own a 22 but I never had to deal with that problem. IMHO, that arrangement is wrong, whether it is original or not. I suspect it is not original. Since you need to replace those clamps anyway, consider butting that Tee immediately against the thruhull fitting using a short piece of hose. That should raise the tee off the hull. Then, run short flexible hoses from your cockpit drain fittings to the Tee such that you do not have a low spot. You do NOT want ANY water standing in those hoses or fittings. That is a perfect opportunity to allow freezing, hose/fitting splits and drainage directly into your boat.
good Luck!

 

[Joe11688]

Hello,
I am restoring an H22. Recently I had the drains fro the cockpit freeze up and the short story is I climbed inside under the cockpit sole to use a heat gun. I have posted 2 pics. The reason for this is due to another forum. As you can see from the first pic (Drain) the hoses remind me of a trap on a sink. This struck me as odd because it would mean the water in the "trap" would freeze regularly.

It looks to me to be the original hoses and not changed in anyway. I was told in another post when I described this that the hoses should run downhill only. I stated I would take pics and post in this forum to gain insight. The second pic (Drain2) is to show that it does not appear there was any type of hanger or fastener to raise the hoses.

Any help would be appreciated and if someone has another H22 please let me know if your cockpit drain hoses look the same.

DISCLAIMER: Please overlook the "nastiness" of the hoses. As part of my restoration I will be cleaning, inspecting and replaing the parts neccessary. Just not there yet.

Herv,
Clark is right. You need to have those hoses pitched down hill so that all the water runs out the transom. You mentioned to me that you saw the picture of my self bailing cockpit hose and it also appears to be going up hill, but I never planned it that way when I made that modification. Maybe it just looks that way because of the camera angle. If not, I'll correct it this spring by cutting off some of the sole plate thru-hull fitting to get the proper angle. However, I haven't had any problem with freeze ups, so maybe I better leave well enough alone. When O'Day built my boat, they used a single hose for this drain with a bend in it. A much better description would be, a kinked hose. The darn thing was always getting plugged up. So what I did was use two hoses, a nylon "L" connector, and four stainless steel hose clamps. The hose is reinforced soft plastic clear hose that can be purchased in any hardware store, or Lowe's. I don't know how much room you have in there to get at it. I tried crawling through the lazarett hatch and got stuck. Luckily I was able to squirm out somehow. That's when I decided to cut a hole in the center of my inside transom and install an 8" Beckson Deck Plate. The deck plate not only makes it easy to get at the self bailing hoses, but I was able to get at both of my gudgeons and remove them, re-caulk and reinstall them, all by my lonesome. My outboard motor charging system wire is easy to install with the deck plate. I have an 8' #10 str. copper duplex wire that goes to an electric term block Mounted on a bulkhead just to the right, inside the lazarette. So if you rig it so that the hoses go down hill, your problem will be solved. Good luck!
Joe

 

[rockp2]

Thank you

Thanks Ross, Joe and Clark for your insight. I will do some modifying based off of your suggestions. Of course getting into the location will be interesting, but where there's a will, there's a way. I'm thinking 2' access hole in the cockpit sole (joke).

 

[SeaTR]

Herv,
I replaced mine using "Trident" brand corrugated bilge hose through Defender.com in Waterford, CT. It's 1 1/2" (their stock code# 500624), a barbed nyon "T" and double clamped each connection (Stainless clamps). See picture attached. Basically, I just duplicated the OEM installation. It's a real pain to get access...I had to remove the port quarter berth bulkhead, then crawl back through the berth into the open lazarette laying on my side...with the aid of some cushioning as you'll be there for a while in an awkward position.

Some say that the original configuration is prone to freeze damage as water collects in the "trap" section, but should not be a problem if before you wrap it up for the offseason you: 1) pour RV antifreeze down both cockpit scuppers until it dribbles out the stern drain, or 2) use a shop vac or compressed air and blow out the lines, or 3) don't do it like OEM and me and make your connections shorter from the cockpit drains to the "T" (or "Y") as well as the "T" (or "Y") to the common drain. You'll lose your "trap"; I'm not sure if that's good, bad or indifferent.

Maybe I'll consider slicing off some length to reconfigure...??

charlie

 

[rockp2]

Decisions, Decisions

I have to tell you Charlie that I am kind of torn. On one hand, now that you have verified it, there has to be a reason for that design. I did some exhaustive scouring on the internet, and though I could not find info about the H22 specific, I did find a couple of other similar applications on like boats. One thing I located said this was done on purpose to prevent water coming up through the scuppers during sailing due to the location of the thru-hull.

I guess I am going to have to think about this more. I may try the downhill version as stated in prvious posts to see what happens.

 

[jcherubini]

I do not like anything about the way the hoses are depicted in the photos. This should not have been original; but I have seen a similar arrangement on 1960s Alberg boats, in which the factory fabricated a fiberglass hose nipple built-in to the hull and then simply attached a hose with clamps to it. In my opinion this is much worse than the problem it attempts to solve in the first place.

According to the picture, the hose lines will never be free of water, leading to mold, moasquitos and potential leakage. The fiberglass hose-attachment points are always susceptible to tiny stress cracks and leaks leading either into the hull or within the laminate. The design as shown places all the responsibility for holding back water on fallible hose clamps and (as shown) flimsy hose.

I would ground off the fiberglass hose nipples completely, fit a pair of Marelon cockpit scuppers, and lead two lengths of 1-1/2" down, each to a Marelon seacock in the bottom plane of the hull (not out the transom). This will solve all of the above problems. It will also miminize flooding due to following seas. It will provide a shut-off (I didn't see a seacock in the included photos). It will drain directly. It is simple and easy to do yourself. (Use 5200 to bed the fittings to the hull; nothing else.)

A stronger and less fallible way is to fiberglass a G-10 tube straight between the cockpit and the hill connecting a 1-1/2" hole drilled in the cockpit floor and the hull at each corner. This avoids the hose, the need for a seacock, and about 95 percent of the vulnerability. It will also lend strength to the cockpit sole (the tubes will serve as legs). One drawback is the amount of work it will take. But the asset is in knowing that the cockpit water goes directly out of the boat and not through a vulnerable hose. What if a leak in one of the cockpit-drain hoses was why you were taking on water?

In any event I hope you have fixed this by now. I hate to think any major manufacturer could have given you the mistake shown in the photos.... but I've actually seen worse (and not done by me!).

JC 2

 

[rockp2]

Great Input

jcherubini,
Thank you very much for the input. You don't have to worry, though I have not made the fix yet, the boat is sitting in my driveway fully covered so I would not have the freeze up issue again until I am ready to make the fix.

I really like your idea about two exit points. As it is, the thru-hull doesn't seem much bigger than a little wider than my thumb which really doesn't make much sense to me considering the hoses are 1 1/2". After doing some reading about people enlarging their scuppers to prevent their boat from being swamped, I was actually thinking about enlarging mine.

No I am not taking this out in 10'seas or doing blue water cruising in it. But I figure better safe than sorry because I do plan on using the boat on the Chesapeake. Your solution accomplishes not only preventing freeze up, but also draining my cockpit very quickly, comparetively.

I am pretty certain the arrangement is original. Both my and Charlie's arrangement is exactly the same (with the exception he has new hoses) and we live a couple of states apart.

Once again, thanks much for your feedback. I think I will probably follow your design advice. -Herv

 

[Clark]

It is amazing what people do who 'supposedly' know what they are doing. Prime example - the drain lines for 2 AC units at my house. PVC piping is used to provide a drain line from the units A coil to the condensate pump. The guys who plumbed that in actually put a shallow trap in the line. Well, it didn't take but a couple of years for that trap to become clogged with algae/goop which caused all the condensate to dump onto the basement floor. When I dicovered that, I really gave my sailing vocabulary a workout!
Point being, just because the manufacturuer did something doesn't make it right.
jcherubini has the best alternative if you want to/can do the work.

Good Luck!