H-34 Compression Beam

[Jim D]

Guys, Great job and info on the fix of the compression beam. Question is what was the clue or deciding factor that led you to the positive confirmation that the original beam was failed. I have an 83 H34 that is original. I cannot see any thing wrong. No cracks etc anywhere? Waiting for the all the pics and details in the project/mods section to save. Thanks Jim d

 

[heart of gold]

For me it was water coming out the screw holes where a ships bell was mounted on the aft side of the post near the top, water coming out of the little reading lite mounted on the beam on the starboard side, slight wrinkling of the beam could be felt on the beam fiberglass near the cabin roof aft side and a semi circular hairline crack in the liner over the head door loose rigging. Other checks I did were to take pictures of the mast foot straight on and studdy them to see if there was any distortion here. Placing a straight edge side to side just in front of the mast also showed sagging starting to happen.Mine had not techically failed yet but from what I had read here in the forums and from seeing a rather catasrophic failure of the beam on a friends boat, I thought that rather than wait until something did happen I would nip in the bud. For me it was piece of mind. Cheers

 

[heart of gold]

Re: Pictures of Fix from the top

fnuttersny, Thanks for the kind words. I too thought about the shape you mentioned but stainless costs kinda limited me somewhat. If you notice though, I did have an attachement point welded on the aft side which I aim to use for the vang and where the vang used to attach on the mast, I will install a cunningham. I have drawings of all of the stuff I did to make this, maybe we could colaborate. Cheers,

 

[Dan Johnson]

Jim D...

Though not absolute, the compression post/beam problem is more common among the '84 and later h34's. If you look at the bottom of your mast base on deck, you should see on an '83 a large black casting that the mast tube sits on. Later boats have a mast tube with a pulley box extending out of its base on the sides at the bottom.

The problem lies within--the tube that carries mast wiring through the deck on '84 and later boats was evidently not tall enough to prevent water getting inside the mast from leaking through the tube onto the post/beam beneath it.

First pic below is my '83 H34's mast base. The second is Fred Ficarra's later model H34 mast base.

 

[Dan Johnson]

Heart of Gold...

Beautiful piece of metalwork! Nice clean installation! Job well done!

 

[Jim D]

Re: Jim D...

Yes the first pic is what i have. I have no water stains or signs of damage on the inside of the cabin. I placed a straight edge along the wood beam inside and it is true. i assume that i have no issues? i do like the metal instead of this wood beam. Great idea's. not sure if i need it now? thanks
jim

 

[heart of gold]

Jim D, Dan is right about the pipe that the wires come through the cabin roof being too short, on my 1985, this was the case. It was loose and the sealant had given up long ago. The 83 mast step definately looks more substantial but if that stupid pipe is the same it may need attention. The only real way to discover this is to remove the mast and have a look. My problem became evident when water was spotted coming out of the screw holes of a ship's bell that was mounted near the top of the post. Keep an eye on your rigging. If it seems to be loosening up for no reason and you have to keep adjusting it this might also be an indication. I bet most of the catastrophic failures are due to the mast being litterly driven down through the cabin roof as the rigging is tightened up over time.

Dan, Thanks, I have to say though the metal work is credited to my slip neighbor who is a very fussy machinist/welder/fabrcator/sailor and I would recommend anyone who goes down this road to find a one. I am very lucky. Cheers

 

[kloudie1]

Compression Post advancing

Finally got the aluminum block fitted and installed over the last two days.. It is set in West G-Flex, filled with 404 .. The 2X4’s were wedged into place and then the jack holding up the beam was released. The shrouds were slightly tightened .. there is a lot of clamp force on the block.. Wires are protected from epoxy by a plastic wrap and silicone grease.. If I had it to do again, I would pull the rig and move the wires out of the way. As it is, the hole is slightly smaller than the compression post so it will not require finishing work when complete.. Not a perfect job, but much better than the smushed wood and void that was there before. Next week I’ll jack the beam again and fit the teak trimmed post and then start putting things back together..

 

[Dan Johnson]

Claude...

That's one heck of a lump of aluminum! Certainly looks good--shame you had to hide it! It will be interesting to see how your economy retrofit works out.

Did you remove the teak cover trim in pieces or as an assembly?

 

[Brad Hoff]

This is a project I will have to take on in the near future, hopefuly not this sailing season though. This is one of those issues I keep putting off and know I will have to tackle soon. I have the compressed upper beam, however, it seems to not have changed much over the years, at least from what I can tell. I am having issues with the common mast ground cutting out and think is in the mast base plug. I could also be from the wires being crushed as shown in some of these photos.

I have not taken off the teak cover to see what is under there yet. I have several questions I hope can be answered. One question I have is what is the base of the compression post sitting on? Is it the fiberglass beam along the floor or is there some attachment below this beam? How long is the compression post suppose to be? Is it just high enough to hit the mast base or is the base suppose to be jacked up more to put some pressure on post (without the mast in place)? It looks like most of you took the mast down and I think this is the route I would take. How did you all get the overhead fiberglass beam straight again? I assume the fiberglass would be permently deformed and have to be repaired with new glass. I will take some photos of my overhead beam and try to opload them here. Thanks for this great thread and all the photos provided.

 

[kloudie1]

H-34 Compression Post

Yes, that 2" thick piece of aluminum took some machining to make it fit. .. There was no teak trim at the top of my compression post.. The faint line that you can see just outside of the hole is the OD of the teak trimmed compression post.. That post was fine except for a small place in the top that was rotted. I used a drywall cutout tool, kinda like a router, to hog that out and fitted an oak plug in the recess. That plug and the whole top of the post was liberally treated with copper naphthenate before the plug was epoxied in place .. I could not get the teak outer covering off the compression post. The original post has a picture of the post top as it came out.. I attached a picture today of the top with the rot removed and a picture of the oak plug. Also I have attached a picture of what the beam looked like when I decided to start the work. I was lucky that there was very little/ no visible damage that was not covered by the small amount of trim at the top.. My post was marked 70” from the factory and it required slack shrouds and jacking to be able to get it out. It is still exactly 70” long and the place it bears on will be within 1/8” of the original dimension.. Those pink wood struts are exactly 70” long too, and much jacking was required to get them in place. As far as I know, the bottom of the post bears on solid glass layup, which the keel attaches to .. I see no deflection at all from the jack or the compression post.

 

[heart of gold]

Re: H-34 Compression Post

The rib that the post sits on is hollow with the exception of the area underneath the post itself which is another wood plug. I saw this with a fiber optic camera from the head side. The rib walls are quite thick though as you can see where the hoses for the head run through it. My shower sump hose also is fished through this rib. It is one reason that the bottom plate of my mast support is as wide as the rib. I wanted the weight to be distributed over the whole surface. I think in retrospect that Hunter was trying to distribute the weight of the mast over the upper beam and the bottom rib together. They just didn't design the wire way so that it couldn't leak. If they had....

 

[heart of gold]

Brad, The post and trim are very well glued together and form a unit. The trim is actually structural, the center is soft wood. You can see this in Kloudie's pics. Kloudie has done a great job for having the boat in the water. My fix is a little different and you can see it earlier in this thread or in the mods section. There are a couple other methods there as well and they all accomplish the same thing. Cheers,

 

[kloudie1]

Thanks for the info on the lower rib, Heart Of Gold.. Good idea to look in there from teh pipe through holes. Is the block grain horizontal like in the top beam, or is it vertical so it doesn't crush ?? Just curious. I guess that rib had to be pretty heavy to carry the loads from the keel..

 

[heart of gold]

Claude, from snooping around in the ribs and beams it is my thought that the keel is hung directly from the hull as it is very thick at the bottom. The whole rib and cross rib structure seems to have been glued to the hull using some kind of thickened epoxy or resin and in great quantities as it is squished out all over in there. The block of wood appears to be on its side just as in the cabin roof beam. Maybe there are other members out there that know more. Cheers

 

[Dan Johnson]

Claude & Heart...

Some time ago there was an article about how the Hunter boat is put together. The ribbing is an assembly that is layed out in the hull to give it added strength. Since the cabin sole covers most of the ribbing, it is difficult to determine how it is done, but "modern science" in the form of the inspection camera has revealed the truth.

I have a little infrared-lighted camera that hooks into my flat screen and have been able to look into some of the compartments between the ribs on the starboard side--recovered a socket and bolt with it!

I gather from Heart's comment that the teak panels are attached to the two 2x4 support posts they conceal and the whole thing comes out as an assembly if you jack the cross-beam up high enough for the notched end to slide free. Correct?

I have the slightest wrinkling of the fiberglass of the beam on the forward side of the commpression post assembly as noted in one of Claude's pics. No other cracking or distortion is evident, nor is there any sign of leaking as has been shown in the pics. So far, so good!

 

[kloudie1]

H 34 Compression Post

Man, Dan.. I'd like to see those pictures of the inside of the beams.. just for the halibut ! Ya rite about the beam being part of the grid.. Attached is a picture of the forward part of the beam showing the keel bolts going thru the forward extending flange on the bottom beam .. You can see the flange is glued to the hull ..

 

[heart of gold]

Hey guys, We will get this boat construction figured out yet! Now that I see your picture of the forward keel bolts I can see that they come through the liner as well. I guess this adds more strength. I think the aft most bolts at the bottom of the companion way are not. Can't remember for sure. In any event the post and trim are all one unit alright as i spent about an hour or so on the table saw hollowing mine out so it would fit around the new stainless mast post that I installed. They were pretty much inseperable. Dan, If you are seeing any distortion in the beam, you may want to act on it now. It will save you a lot of trouble in the future. Cheers,

 

[Dan Johnson]

Claude & Heart...

Claude: your shower sump looks about the same condition as mine! I was surprised to see the SS plates split for the post's position. It makes sense though that they would help center it and keep it in place.

Heart: now you've got me worried! I'm going to see if I can determine some way of fishing an LCD camera lens up the beam molding on the underside of the cabin top from one side or the other to see if I can get a peek at what's there now.

The indent has been there for the five years I've owned the boat and hasn't changed during that time. The PO commented the same while I was doing my due dilligence before buying the boat.

 

[heart of gold]

Dan, I can relate to the worry. I started to worry after reading that this was a prevalent problem with the 34 on this site. My surveyor also gave my boat a clean bill of health even after I pointed it our to him but it had not rained in a will and when it did water appeared in the post. Mine had not cracked or weakened yet but I figured that it was only a matter of time and as I plan to sail her fairly hard I did not want this to become a problem at an inappropriate time. If the beam had failed as some have it would have limited the repair options to reconstruction and a lot more expense. Anyway, for me, it is peace of mind. Sorry to plant the seed but if you act on it, you will not have think about it again. If you would like to know more about the way I fixed mine please feel free to contact me. For snooping around inside the beams I used a "see snake" made by rigid tools. Cheers