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got a nasty surprise yesterday

Discussion in 'Ask All Sailors' started by SycloneDriver, Jan 6, 2019. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. capta

    capta

    Joined Jun 4, 2009
    2,837 posts, 916 likes
    Pearson 530
    na Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
    If you have an electric windlass it really does not matter one tiny bit how heavy the person going aloft is. We always use the windlass and it's up, up and away as quick as jack flash.
     


    JamesG161 likes this.
  2. jon hansen

    jon hansen

    Joined May 25, 2012
    1,249 posts, 709 likes
    john alden caravelle 42
    us sturgeon bay, wis
    me, on a vessel that size, i'd make a gin pole. certainly a annual inspection of your rig is standard, you have other maintenance to handle. seems a gin pole would be good to have in your situation.

    old school
     


    Gene Neill likes this.
  3. JimInPB

    JimInPB

    Joined Aug 22, 2017
    1,341 posts, 394 likes
    Hunter 212 & 170
    us West Palm Beach
    A tight main sheet is not the best way to keep a boom from swinging side to side. That puts an enormous amount of stress on the topping lift. You will get FAR less stress if you use two lines from the end of the boom to port & starboard aft cleats while leaving the main sheet slightly relaxed.

    The leverage involved in pulling sideways on a line that is pulled straight, is orders of magnitude higher than the leverage of two lines that are at 30 degrees to each other.
     


    Will Gilmore likes this.
  4. SycloneDriver

    SycloneDriver

    Joined Jul 23, 2009
    128 posts, 15 likes
    Beneteau 88 First 285
    US Grand Lake, Oklahoma
    I don't have an electric windlass or winch.

    Dropping the mast really isn't an option, the mast isn't hinged like my other boat. It sits on a plate with 4 or 6 small posts that keep it centered.

    I will find a different method of securing the boom.
     


  5. SycloneDriver

    SycloneDriver

    Joined Jul 23, 2009
    128 posts, 15 likes
    Beneteau 88 First 285
    US Grand Lake, Oklahoma
    The current plan is to replace the old main halyard with a new one and winch a friend of mine up the mast. He has helped me on another boat, I just really hate asking him to do this. I will run the halyard to several winches so more than one person can do the work. Hopefully we can get a few other things accomplished while he is up there.
     


  6. Ron20324

    Ron20324

    Joined Jan 22, 2008
    6,624 posts, 764 likes
    Beneteau 323
    US Annapolis MD
    As my dear 'ol Pappy used to say, "What are friends for but to mooch off of?". Then, after the laughter died down, he would say, "If they're really friends, then you're not really mooching."
     


  7. Will Gilmore

    Will Gilmore

    Joined Oct 19, 2017
    3,892 posts, 1,909 likes
    O'Day 19
    US Littleton, NH


  8. Davidasailor26

    Davidasailor26

    Joined May 17, 2004
    1,404 posts, 296 likes
    Beneteau Oceanis 37 LE
    US Havre de Grace
    Just one other consideration - If the old tipping lift was fatigued enough to fail in a storm, what condition are the halyards in? Would not want to be climbing the mast on them if their condition is not known with certainty.
     


    Parsons and Will Gilmore like this.
  9. Daveinet

    Daveinet

    Joined Sep 20, 2014
    942 posts, 177 likes
    Rob Legg RL24
    US Chain O'Lakes
    Why is a boom kicker so expensive - just because it is a marine item?? Why not just buy a automotive gas shock and ball ends and bolt it on. I'd be willing to bet you could do the whole thing for less than a 100 bucks.
     


  10. dlochner

    dlochner

    Joined Jan 11, 2014
    2,959 posts, 1,289 likes
    Sabre 362
    113 US Fair Haven, NY
    A boom kicker is a series of fiberglass rods that have an induced bend in them to support the boom. http://www.boomkicker.com

    A rigid vang is typically a spring loaded telescopic pole with a block and tackle attached to control the tension. Here's one example: http://www.seldenmast.com/en/products/pdfview/__file_595-808v7-E-68-70.pdf.html

    I suppose an auto shock absorber might work, but by the time you modify to fit and add the necessary rigging, you would have a cobbed together design that may or may not work as well.
     


  11. SycloneDriver

    SycloneDriver

    Joined Jul 23, 2009
    128 posts, 15 likes
    Beneteau 88 First 285
    US Grand Lake, Oklahoma
    Will - thanks for the idea and especially the pictures. I think I'll pass on healing my boat that far over though. It is a cool idea.

    David - in post #45 I did say I was planning to replace the very old main halyard before replacing the topping lift. BTW The topping lift was less than 3 years old 1/4" yacht braid. Many boats were damaged in that storm, my dock neighbor lost his backstay when the casting at the top of his mast failed. Another boat lost it's mast. Thanks for the suggestion on the halyard, safety first.

    Dave - think I'll pass on the automotive parts as a boom kicker. Yes, I'm cheap but I don't like to work that hard anymore. I'll either get help and replace the topping lift or install a BoomKicker. I'll pass on the rigid boom vang, I really liked the one I had on the last boat but I just don't want to spend that much. Thanks for the input.
     


    Davidasailor26 likes this.
  12. capta

    capta

    Joined Jun 4, 2009
    2,837 posts, 916 likes
    Pearson 530
    na Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
    It's pretty obvious that you sail in fresh water! Those of us sailing in saltwater might have a bit different perspective. The last thing I'd want is some cheap, made for dirt dweller use item, bleeding rust all over my decks.
     


    Parsons likes this.
  13. Parsons

    Parsons

    Joined Jul 12, 2011
    669 posts, 256 likes
    Catalina 36
    US Bay City, MI
    Not the topic of this thread, but +1 for Boomkicker rather than fancy rigid vangs. To clarify @dlochner 's comment, Boomkicker do not have "induced bend", but are two straight fiberglass rods about 2-3 feet long with end mounts that act as a flex spring. The cost is because it is a low-volume, high-quality device that is built for outdoor flexing over years. I've installed a couple, satisfactorily, and have not heard of one breaking.
     


  14. Will Gilmore

    Will Gilmore

    Joined Oct 19, 2017
    3,892 posts, 1,909 likes
    O'Day 19
    US Littleton, NH
    I have a shelf full of flexible glass and metal dome tent poles. They would probably make great boom kickers when combined with a simple 2 block vang.

    -Will (Dragonfly)
     


  15. dlochner

    dlochner

    Joined Jan 11, 2014
    2,959 posts, 1,289 likes
    Sabre 362
    113 US Fair Haven, NY
    The bend is induced by the vang. :)
     


  16. capta

    capta

    Joined Jun 4, 2009
    2,837 posts, 916 likes
    Pearson 530
    na Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
    Got anything that might hold up a 200# or so boom?
     


  17. Gunni

    Gunni

    Joined Mar 16, 2010
    5,684 posts, 1,348 likes
    Beneteau 411 Oceanis
    US Annapolis
    I put a boomkicker on a small one-design I had, believe it was their smallest model. When rigged it was under constant bend, and constant strain. It worked, but the fact that a loaded, sprung fiberglass rod was staring me in the face gave me the creeps. That thing lets go and somebody is going down, there is nothing to contain the rods. If you don’t want to pay for a rigid vang, stick with a topping lift.
     


    JRacer and capta like this.
  18. Will Gilmore

    Will Gilmore

    Joined Oct 19, 2017
    3,892 posts, 1,909 likes
    O'Day 19
    US Littleton, NH
    How about a PVC pipe around the vang cut to about 1" short of the tightest vang length when the sail is hoisted?

    -Will (Dragonfly)
     


  19. Daveinet

    Daveinet

    Joined Sep 20, 2014
    942 posts, 177 likes
    Rob Legg RL24
    US Chain O'Lakes
    Really from a simplicity standpoint, lazy jacks are typically made wrong. If you come out from the mast only 3 or 4 feet above the boom, when the boom drops, the lines pull tight. When you raise the sail, the line will droop low enough to not interfere with any of the sail. You do not have to tighten or loosen them. That will happen automatically when you raise and lower the sail. The end of my boom only moves up and down about 8 inches. That is enough to clear the cabin, but give me enough slack when the main is raised. No need for a boom kicker.
     


    Will Gilmore likes this.
  20. SycloneDriver

    SycloneDriver

    Joined Jul 23, 2009
    128 posts, 15 likes
    Beneteau 88 First 285
    US Grand Lake, Oklahoma
    I am currently using my lazy jack as a topping lift, but because I never had the sail cover cut for the lazy jacks the cover doesn't fit well now. Next time I'll use the main halyard as a topping lift, slack the lazy jack lines and the cover will fit correctly. I still intend to replace the topping lift, I'm waiting on the weather to warm up. This weekend is going to be cold.
     



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