Forestay and Toilet

Mar 3, 2018
2
macgregor 2007 26M bundaberg
Hello All
i am the new owner of a macgregor 26M 2007 in australia

me little sailing experience

i am concerned that the boat does not have a forestay and rely on the jib to take mast stability.
is this normal or has the boat been lightened of this stay???

Marine toilet
the boat has a chemical toilet
want to replace it with a flush system

what is the best system ??? and how do i plumb it???

thank you; russ
 

Kermit

.
Jul 31, 2010
5,657
AquaCat 12.5 17342 Wateree Lake, SC
Russ,
Welcome to sailboat ownership and to our humble sailing abode. It took me a minute (literally) to realize what you have. You do have a forestay. The forestay is there. It’s just covered by the jib furler. If you remove the jib and the furler the mast will NOT fall down. Others will explain better. And other others will be able to help you with the toilet.
 
Apr 19, 2012
1,043
O'Day Daysailor 17 Nevis MN
Welcome Russ, Enjoy your new boat.

Like Kermit said, "You do have a forestay." It's not uncommon for it to be inside the jib. I just use the portable toilet so I can't help with the that either. You might try asking about that on the "Ask All Sailors" section.

Although there are a few power-sailor owners here most of the Macgregor owners here have "classic" models (made before 1995) you can probably get better info specific to your boat at http://www.macgregorsailors.com .
 

Kermit

.
Jul 31, 2010
5,657
AquaCat 12.5 17342 Wateree Lake, SC
@Peggie Hall HeadMistress is flush with toilet information. She is #1 in the #2 business. I don’t know where she learned all the crap she knows but her head is overflowing with information.

P.S. All of these puns have been used ad nauseum. But since you’re the new kid I figured you needed a good baptism seeing how it’s Sunday and all. At least it is here. It’s probably tomorrow there but it’s still yesterday here.
 
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Oct 19, 2017
7,744
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
@Peggie Hall HeadMistress is flush with toilet information. She is #1 in the #2 business. I don’t know where she learned all the crap she knows but her head is overflowing with information.
P.S. All of these puns have been used as nauseum. But since you’re the new kid I figured you needed a good baptism being it’s Sunday and all. At least it is here.
:plus: with Kermit,
Peggy's head is nearly clogged with info so don't poo poo her advice. She will have you going in no time.

-Will (Dragonfly)
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,725
- - LIttle Rock
After that introduction, I don't know whether to take a bow or run for my life!

Welcome aboard, Russ!

Marine toilet...the boat has a chemical toilet
want to replace it with a flush system. what is the best system ??? and how do i plumb it???
I strongly suspect that the only reason you want to replace the chemical toilet ("portapotty" in the US) with a "flush system" (marine toilet and holding tank) is because you want to end having to carry the tank off the boat to empty it. What you may not realize is, 1) a marine toilet will require putting 2 below-waterline holes in the bottom of your boat--one for the flush water intake and one to flush the toilet directly overboard and/or dump the tank where legal in your waters...2) the toilet, holding tank and all the relating plumbing will use 30-50% of your storage space...3) require a lot of maintenance...and 4) cost you at $400-600 USD. There's a better way:

Replace your portable chemical toilet with an "MSD" version. The "MSD" designation in the model name/number means it has fittings for a pumpout line and vent line, and is designed to be permanently installed (actually just sturdier brackets than portables, so you could still take it off the boat if you absolutely have to), which means that although it's still called a PORTApotty, you don't have to carry anything off the boat to empty it.

A 5-6 gallon model is the same height as a household toilet (so no more "squatting on a bucket") and holds 50-60 flushes...you'd need at least a 30 gal tank to hold that many from any manual marine toilet. No plumbing needed except a vent line and pumpout hose--so no new holes in the boat...and -0- maintenance needed except for rinsing out the tank--which you can do with a bucket while it's being pumped out. Total cost including the pumpout hose,vent line and deck pumpout fitting is about $200USD (about $300 USD if you also include a y-valve and pump to dump the tank)--a fraction of what you'd spend for toilet, tank and all the related plumbing needed. And the best part is, you have all the advantages of a toilet and holding tank without giving up a single square foot of storage space.
Check out the Thetford 550P MSD and the Dometic/SeaLand 975MSD Sanipottie

Questions? I'll be glad to answer 'em!

Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein
 

Sumner

.
Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
....Check out the Thetford 550P MSD and the Dometic/SeaLand 975MSD Sanipottie.....
I went this route for a second head in our 26S but went with the smaller Thetford 260 as it is shorter and I needed less height ...



... for where it is located. You should be able to go with the taller/larger capacity 550 for your situation. I also did go...



... with a configuration where I could pump overboard if I was out the legal limit from shore. The whole build is here ....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/inside-index.html

I wish I could comment on its use but haven't used it except to pump water through it to make sure everything was working. I had it aboard for my Bahama trip but used the ...


http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/inside-index.html

... Double Doodie bag head for the whole trip and subsequent trips. Smells a little more during use, but the rest of the time not and love that it leaves nothing to cleanup.

On the Endeavour I installed a ...



... Lavac Head and all new plumbing and a larger holding tank.

http://1fatgmc.com/boat/end-1/endeavour-plumbing/page-9.html

We have been using it on our current trip and love it so far. It does require the two thru-hulls Peggie mentioned so wouldn't use it for a Mac.

Good luck with the new boat and enjoy it,

Sumner
===========================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas
 
Nov 8, 2007
1,526
Hunter 27_75-84 Sandusky Harbor Marina, Ohio
We have used the original MSD on our h27 for 18 summers. Pumping overboard is not allowed anywhere on our Great Lakes, so we have only got the pump out and vent lines. The two of us can go 5 days between pump outs. Maintenance is almost nothing.

About “Chemical.” This implies perfumed poison to kill odorous bacteria. This is the wrong way to go! Whatever solution you use, your additive should simply supply oxygen, because bacteria who thrive in oxygen don’t smell! Really! So we have no odor on our boat, unless we are away for a few weeks, then a little of the oxygenator ends the odor. (The product we use here is Odorlos.)
 
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Likes: Hayden Watson
Dec 2, 1997
8,725
- - LIttle Rock
About “Chemical.” This implies perfumed poison to kill odorous bacteria.
Americans are the only ones who call 'em portapotties...in other English speaking countries they're known as "cassette" (referring to the removable tank) or "chemical" toilets because that's what they are. Portable tanks aren't vented...they're anaerobic...so toxic chemicals are the only thing that can even reduce the odor that rolls out of the "trap door" in the bottom of the bowl every time it's opened.
"MSD" version tanks are vented, allowing organic tank products to work the same way as in any other holding tank.
 
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May 18, 2017
52
MacGregor 26S Piscataqua
Chemical toilets and marine heads are sooooo yesteryear.
You need a composting head. AirHead and Natures' Head are the two most common. I didn't have enough headroom (i.e. space for me sitting down without a hole in the ceiling) for either above, so I built my own.
Empty the liquids tank daily ( or have a spare) and the solids bucket monthly for use by two people.
 

Macboy

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Aug 8, 2014
254
Macgregor 26S Sherwood Park, Alberta
Chemical toilets and marine heads are sooooo yesteryear.
You need a composting head. AirHead and Natures' Head are the two most common. I didn't have enough headroom (i.e. space for me sitting down without a hole in the ceiling) for either above, so I built my own.
Empty the liquids tank daily ( or have a spare) and the solids bucket monthly for use by two people.

Can you tell me a bit more about your build? We (the wife and kids) haven't had the full discussion about toilets and sailing life yet but it'll come this season. I did briefly mention the portable we have on the boat now (which we haven't yet put into service) and the Doodie Bag option which I've used on my solo outings. She definitely had preconceptions about the latter.....
 

Sumner

.
Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
...... She definitely had preconceptions about the latter.....
Most people do, that was my initial reaction but it has been a very viable option depending on how you go about it.

We have also really been enjoying the Lavac Head on the Endeavour but it wouldn't work on the Mac. If I was starting over again from scratch I'd also take a harder look at the composting heads than I did at the time. Easy to have preconceived thoughts about any of them. We will stick with the bags on the Mac even though we have the MSD in the boat also.

I'd also like to see pictures of the composting toilet build that works in a S :). As mentioned most of the commercial ones seem to be to high,

Sumner
=============================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas
 
May 18, 2017
52
MacGregor 26S Piscataqua
Building your own composting head is not an easy task. You'll need fiberglassing skills, metalworking, and a good bit of ingenuity.
Before you start, it would be best to get a very good look at either an AirHead or Nature's Head to see how they work. We were lucky to see one at the Portland Maine boat show.
On the Mac 26S (and perhaps others) there is a fiberglass shelf that the port-potty sits on. For a composting head this has got to go. Get out the sawzall and cut out the whole shelf, and fiberglass over the hole to make a new shelf right on top of the ballast tank, about an inch below the floor. (first photo) This'll gain you about 5" of height.
IMG_2460-2.JPG

The solid waste goes into a custom bucket. The space available is confined by the shape of the hull, so this is an odd shaped bucket. I made a styrofoam block to fit in the space, then rounded the corners over generously, wrapped that in polyethylene sheet, then covered it in several layers of fiberglass cloth and epoxy. Once the fiberglass is thick enough, tear out the foam and plastic sheet.
IMG_3164.JPG

Then there's the auger. The peat and solid waste must be broken up and mixed. I found up a piece of 3/8” solid stainless steel rod, and using a torch, was able to bend it into it's convoluted shape for mixing the peat. A wooden handle and crank arm screws onto the end.
IMG_3165.JPG

The solid waste bucket gets half filled with peat (garden supply) and a detergent bottle becomes the liquid waste receptacle. We bought a Separette toilet bowl and lid, which sends the solid and liquid wastes into their separate containers. A box made of vinyl board surrounds the sides, and a plywood top finishes it off.
IMG_2561.JPG

Here's the final product, showing the hand crank for the auger. You'll also notice a small fan and PVC pipe out through the roof. In hindsight, I wouldn't bother with this extra ventilation, as there is no smell from this system.
IMG_2559.JPG

Good luck with your build. For us this is the best way to go.
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,725
- - LIttle Rock
n hindsight, I wouldn't bother with this extra ventilation, as there is no smell from this system.
These systems don't actually compost...they desiccate (dry out) the solids, which are 75% water. The dry organic material can't do it alone...they need help from a fan. Otherwise your "compost" is just fertilizer.

Temperature is also major factor. Bacteria needed to break down solids work best between 75-80 F....below 60 they're too sluggish to accomplish much if anything, at 40F bacteria become dormant. So in latitudes where temps can easily be in the low 60s overnight even in summer, heat is needed too.
So unless you want to end up with something that's essentially no more than a kitty litter box, there's a good more to building a DIY "composter" than just creating the containers.
 
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Likes: Will Gilmore

Sumner

.
Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country

Nice work and thanks for the pictures and description. I did find...



... the separator here ...

https://www.separett-usa-orders.com...ing-toilets/products/privy-501-w-folding-seat

Thanks for that info as that is a key part of this working,

Sumner
========================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...

MacGregor 26-S Mods...http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/endeavour-main/endeavour-index.html
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas
 
May 18, 2017
52
MacGregor 26S Piscataqua
So unless you want to end up with something that's essentially no more than a kitty litter box, there's a good more to building a DIY "composter" than just creating the containers.
Yes, you're totally correct. No actual composting takes place. But that's the accepted nomenclature for these things. And the most important aspect is that it really works.
Kitty litter for humans!