First sail

[David11038]

Finally, got the boat in the water for the first time since purchase last Oct! The weather was kind enough to offer a variety of conditions for the 3 times I got it out over the weekend – ranging from barely a whisper to 15+ knots. Still working on getting a good feel for it (and working on getting crew/weight placement right). The reports of the 170’s “responsiveness”/tenderness are accurate – certainly more tender than the C16’s I have sailed a few times before, but I never felt a capsize was imminent. I have the luxury of being able to leave it at dock in a 9 – 10’ wide slip – only drawback is the water is only about 2’ deep there and to enter requires a 180 degree turn at the last minute. I have planned to just bring the boat to a stop, then walk it in – however, on one of my sails this weekend the wind was light and I maintained steerage in spite of having the centerboard and rudder almost all the way up. Much to my own amazement (with a gentle nudge from lady luck) I made the 180 and glided perfectly into the slip – passengers were awestruck and I, of course, made like it was no big deal . My only two questions/complaints – no matter how hard or how many times I tried I was not able to raise the main fully – looked like it needed to raise another couple of inches. I made sure the boom vang and mainsheet were loose. The other problem was being unable to fully unfurl the jib. Anyone else struggle with these? Any suggestions?

 

[jprieto]

David: Check that your topping lift is loose, and your reefing line(s) is(are) loose. Failure to have either of these loose might affect your ability to fully raise the main.

 

[Glenn17427]

Congratulations on first sail !

Hi David,That must have been an extra long wait for you from October until now with a new boat on your hands.I don't know of anyone who has capsized on a reach, to my knowledge and including myself all capsized occurred as a result of a "poorly executed jibe or sudden unexpected jibe"...Some one might correct me on this.Everyone that I have talked to say the same thing about the 170 heeling way over on a close reach / close hauled and dumping the wind as it turns into the wind.I added a boomkicker, really nice you might want to consider one, I use the heavier rods.The boomkicker changes the shape of your sail instantly without having to mess with the topping line. there has been several post on the subject of Boomkickers.I concure with the other post, I can't find any other reasone why you can't raise the main fully.I have two friends who sail their 170 solo and have no problems doing so.......I'm going to solo some time this summer !Have you thought of a "MAST FLOAT" or "FOAMING" your mast. the 170 will "TURTLE" by the time you realize your in the water !Glenn

 

[Rusty10343]

Welcome Afloat!

David,You have encountered the two most common issues that I am aware of. Simple fixes for both as they are not problems, but more like "issues that have to be understood". Specifically, I think (know) that your topping lift is tied off too long as you have said that your vang and mainsheets are loose. The only factor that can cause this then is that your topping lift is tied off too long. To test, raise your sail until it "sticks". Have someone else go to the back of the boom and lift it up a foot or so and hold it there. Pull on the halyard again. Did the last tug on the main halyard tighten the main and finish it? If yes, there you got it! If not, post back! Follow the attached link to a post from some time ago which addresses both "issues".Good sailing.Godspeed,Rusty

 

[Mike G.]

Good to see the ol' 170 forum a-hummin'

Gentlesailors,Great to see some springtime chat going on on the forum! My wife and I trailered the 170 up to the intercoastal just south of Jacksonville, FL on Memorial Day Monday and had six hours of solid sailing (and that's saying something between Florida's midday wind-dyings and instant-brew T-storms). I noticed that literally the more I sail her (we've had her 1 year and 4 months now) the more I learn & love her ways. Last year I would have been single reefed in stuff similar to what we had Monday (12-14k's?), but I'm learning to keep the jib pulled all the way in, while just spilling the main slightly in big puffs. I admit slight pinching now and then, but with mostly just hiking onto the wind-rail and letting the boat heel and stiffen, we're seeing amazing headway (even in brackish ebb) and power out of her. We love it! Amazing how getting to know ones way around a new boat makes all the difference. You folks who're enjoying your first few experiences with this boat are going to be TRULY in love once you get to know it a little more.Whew, I've spread enough love for one night! Best to all,Mike G. s/v Lil SportAlachua, FL

 

[David11038]

Thanks

Some great suggestions. I did check out the archives again - always a good idea as there is a wealth of info there. I will definately try shortening the topping lift to see if it helps to raise the main. I looked at it at the time and couldn't imagine how it would interfere, but now thinking about it, it makes sense that the leech tension created by long topping lift, would put extra pressure on the lugs up near the head of the sail for those final few inches. It will be a couple of weeks before I can get up to the lake to try out the suggestions.By the way, Glenn, you mention that the risk of capsize is greater when gybing than when on a reach (because the 170 heads up so readily?). Anyone out there with ideas for minimizing the risk of capsize on a jibe. I do try to avoid sailing dead downwind and wing on wing, and I try to control my jibes by sheeting in and manually guiding the boom over. I have heard that it is a good idea when sailing downwind to raise the centerboard 50% or so both to increase speed and to avoid "tripping" over the CB on a jibe. Any thoughts on this?

 

[gball]

Re: jib not unfurling all the way

Hi David,Your last little bit about the jib not unfurling all the way caught my attention.I've had this problem in the past but figured out a decent solution: When setting up the boat (I trailer-sail so I get alot of practice at this!), have the jib rolled up all the way with the jibsheets rolled around the sail once or twice around. Then roll in two rotations of roller furling line into the roller furling drum and jam the roller furl line into its clamcleat. Once the mast is up, then clip the sail eyelet onto the roller drum. You should have just enough space now for the roller drum to accept all the furler control line when the sail's unfurled, and the control line retreats into the drum. I sometimes even test-unfurl the sail right there on the trailer, to be sure I've gotten it right (watching the breeze of course)!Hope this helps,Mike G.

 

[john]

same two problems

Hi David, You are smart to post your questions here. I had the same two problems for two years before I figured them out. For me it was the topping lift that wouldn't allow me to raise the main, I thought it was getting stuck at the top of the mast. I kept squinting to look up there and note the sharp angle of the halyard, I spread some graffite on the top of the mast, tried some other stuff, it was the topping lift. With the jib - is it that you pull the sheet all the way out and there is still jib left unfurled, or is the jib binding and not the furler not spinning? I have had each problem, they are both pretty simple to fix. I spent more than a year crawling out to the bow to hand turn the furler and wondering what the advantage of a furling jib was. Now that mine works it is a great advantage. For me when my jib was kinky and the drum would not spin, there were creases in the sail. I sent it to "sailcare" and they cleaned and pressed it and corrected the way it was attached to the furler. By the way, where in Michigan, what lake do you sail??John

 

[David11038]

black lake

John - I had a combined problem of a vertical crease that ran up the luff. I also had my furling line tangled up in the spool. Thirdly (?), I ran out of furling line as the stop knot at the end was tight against the cleet.Regarding raising the main, I won't be able to try the topping lift idea til I get up north again in a couple of weeks, but I am sure that is the problem.BTW - I live in the A2 area, but leave my 170 on Black Lake up near Burt and Mullet (almost to the bridge). When not up north, I sail at the U of M Sailing Club. Where do you sail at? Maybe we could get together sometime and you could show me how to handle the spirited 170.

 

[Brian]

Furling problems

I am having the same problem with my jib not unfurling all the way. I think part of the problem is that the angle of head sail with the cam cleat is such so that the sail in being pulled down instead of out. If that makes sense. But more importantly, I think that the bail of the furler is slightly too small for all of the line that must be take in when the sail is unfurled. Any thoughts?Our club is getting together for a sail on the 18th so look for some pictues posted at our web site soon after.

 

[John]

Portage Lake

Hey David, I live in Dexter, I sail on the other end of the chain, Big Portage Lake. I joined the PYC so that I can leave my boat in the marina. I timed it once just for fun, I decided to go sailing at 10:00 AM and by 10:20 I was under sail, that is time to change my close, pack a cooler, grab my pfd, drive to the lake, rig the boat and sail off, not bad, huh?I would love to get together and go sailing, I am not sure how much I could show you. I took my first sailing lesson about three years ago, I still have much to learn. Just last October I thought I had mastered my 170 and it decided to let me know how cold the water was! I have also had the problem of running out of furling line. I think it furls tighter in high wind, so the amount of line you use is variable. with a little patience you can come to a point where you still have some on the spool some days and you don't run out on the other days. john

 

[John]

UofM sailing club

by the way . . .Doesn't the sailing club use JY 15's??? I thought those were pretty similar to the 170. I have never seen one in person, but I thought they were about identical. john

 

[David11038]

jy-15 vs 170

The 170 is a couple of feet longer and a foot wider. It is also about 200lbs heavier. The 170 feels a whole lot more comfortable to sit in. There are differences in the feel of how they sail, because I am used to the JY, I don't feel as much in control of the 170 - but I am sure that will change as I get more experience. Let's make plans to sail!

 

[gball]

Good point, re: 170 vs. JY15

David,I love my 170, but I bet I (and many others on this forum) would find the JY15 a little more "control"lable. From what I can tell, the 15 might sail more like a Laser (flat gunwale, you can hike far off the gunwale through use of hiking straps?), and the 170's added weight and hull shape (round as opposed to more flat in the 15?) makes it less responsive to crew ballast. Also, its rounded gunwale makes hiking per se (even with a jury-rigged strap) uncomfortable. The 170's big enough to be pretty much unfazed by a singlehanded sailors 'ballast', yet is responsive and light enough to be unwieldly in the strong stuff, especially with a more novice skipper at the tiller. I've always thought this but having the JY15 comparison helped me put it in to easier terms.Mike G.

 

[Brian]

170

I have never sailed a JY15 but my previous boat was a coronado 15. I would imagine that the boats are very similar. In my mind, these boats are very different to the 170. The coronado 15 is a racer intended to be sail by a crew of two who like to get wet while hiking out as far as they can, all the while realizing that at any moment they may capsize. But that would be ok since it would be easy to right the coronado 15. Its a very fun boat if that is the kind of sailing you want to do. It was for me until I had children and reached my 50th birthday. Then I wanted a dry boat that would not be easy to capsize and that my young children would be willing to go sailing on, that was affordable and trailable. The 170 fit that criteria. Its hull shape makes it harder to capsize, it heals over, but I have never been in a situation where I felt like I was going over. I mostly sail solo. I have had the 170 in winds up to 15-20 mph and seas of up to 3 feet. It heals in these conditions to about 30-40 degrees, then heads into the wind and flattens out. Now for some, this in scary and uncomfortable. But for me, thats when the boat is fun. Thats the beauty of this boat. If you want to sail it in light winds without healing, you can. If you want more excitment, healing over to 30 degrees in 3 ft. seas with out capsizing, you can! But it seems like too many people want the 170 to sail like a boat with a keel. It isn't and it won't. Learn to sail it and you will have a blast. Brian

 

[gball]

Amen!

Brian,I like your writings about 15-20 breezes and heeling up. I find that ragging/spilling the main in the puffs really helps in these conditions. Although the 170 doesn't point well at all under main alone, I often have to get rid of the jib altogether when the wind really pipes up. What have you found is your 'put away the jib' windspeed? (of course I'm usually solo, and without a crew or two ballast, the heel will vary). I've found that the 170 jib is such a powerful, driving sail when the breeze is below 14 or so, but seems to overpower the boat above that. Have you (or anyone reading this) had great success with roller-reefing the jib? I've found that it bags at the top (comes 'untucked'), even when half rolled up. The larger keelboat's you mention have so many turns in their roller jibs by that point (half reefed) that the sail seems to lay flat at the luff.Mike G.Alachua, FL

 

[Brian]

Winds over 15mph

Hello to everyone. I have only reefed once since I got my 170 in October. The winds were about 16-18mph but died down to 15 later in the day at which time I took the reefs out. But while I was reefed I experimented with full jib, no jib and slightly furled jib. The slightly furled jib seemed to be the worst. I agree with you Mike, I don't think the jib furles evenly enough to be effective. The boat healed less with no jib but the performance was terrible. I figure that sail plan is to be used to get back to the dock. What seemed to work best is to use full sails up to winds to 15mph. When the winds get up to this point, I let off my boom vang and my boom kicker lifts the boom and spills wind from the top 1/3 of the sail. This is with the out haul pulled tight. Danny has a really good post on this. This seems to reduce my heal angle by about 5 degrees and I have never felt like I was going over. Beyond 15 mph I am heading for the launch ramp as the seas are 3 ft. by now and the ride is not much fun. We don't get big changes in winds speed here. If the wind builds it builds gradually so I can prepare for it. But I have been healed over so that people on other boats have said they could see my center board and I have never felt like I was going over. It was actually very fun. I love this boat. brian