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Fiddling with Fids

Discussion in 'Sails Call Lounge' started by Brian D, May 10, 2018. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. Jerry Clark H356 SV Persi

    Jerry Clark H356 SV Persi

    Joined Mar 3, 2003
    628 posts, 44 likes
    Hunter 356
    US Grand Rivers
    Brian D: Look at the Marlow rope splicing video on YouTube. It’s different, but I got really close to actually making one this morning. I’m going to learn how to do this!! With this method, I could actually pull the two cores once they crossed. I only tried it once today. I was using a 7/16 rope and used a 5/16 fid to do the core crossing step. I taped the core onto the fid with electrical tape and kept it smooth. Went about an inch and a half past for the crossing. Then at end tied it off and used leather gloves to milk it down. I did something wrong, looked like a good splice but part of the core -1/2 inch was missing on one side of the splice. I’m getting closer.
     


    Rick D likes this.
  2. JimInPB

    JimInPB

    Joined Aug 22, 2017
    1,174 posts, 338 likes
    Hunter 212 & 170
    us West Palm Beach
    A few things here -

    First, when I purchased my aluminum fid set from Sampson back in the 80's, it came with a book that explained how to splice double braid. Only one way was shown. That was then, this is now. These days, Sampson publishes many different splice methods that are specific to a particular variety of double braid. Make sure that you are using the correct splice for your particular type of rope.

    Second, I have found that polishing my fids to a high shine with Simichrome, will make them slide through the braid much more easily.

    Third, I often use the "correct" fid to mark my cut lengths for my splices, but use a fid that is one size smaller to actually push the core into the jacket.

    Fourth, sometimes it really helps to soak the rope in fabric softener before starting the splice job. If you do this, wash it out real well before using the line for any high stress applications.
     


    Last edited: May 15, 2018
  3. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    6,539 posts, 2,385 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    Brian. take all the burrs off the fid. I use the samson aluminum fids. They are smooth. It is not a race. Take the time. You should be able to pass a tapered cover along the line above the core with out having to force the fid.
    Work with new line. This is practice. Buy cheap line and build the skill.

    Very nice. Did you lock stitch the splice with whipping twine?
     


  4. DougM

    DougM

    Joined Jul 24, 2005
    1,522 posts, 141 likes
    Beneteau 323
    US Manistee, MI
    Splicing is really easy. Double braid is more forgiving however than stranded core.
    I learned to do my own a long time ago, but if I don’t do one for awhile, I have to pull out the book and go through the steps. It is very important to have the proper fids.
     


  5. jon hansen

    jon hansen

    Joined May 25, 2012
    1,025 posts, 489 likes
    john alden caravelle 42
    us sturgeon bay, wis
    of course the splice is nice. we all know the bowline will not slip. a better choice for your temporary knot could have been the halyard knot. fun to tie, cleaner look.
     


  6. Meriachee

    Meriachee

    Joined Aug 1, 2011
    2,691 posts, 743 likes
    Catalina 270
    CA Wabamun - on the orange ball
    That is on the list. Making it look nice when it's complete is important. :)
     


  7. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    6,539 posts, 2,385 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    Yes. More important making sure it does not unravel or pull out under strain is even more nice....
     


  8. Meriachee

    Meriachee

    Joined Aug 1, 2011
    2,691 posts, 743 likes
    Catalina 270
    CA Wabamun - on the orange ball
    I've never had a splice unravel. I usually go a lot further than the 1/3 fid recommendation that most of the docs suggest and while it usually makes the milking process a pita, the end result is a joint that is much stronger.
     


  9. pateco

    pateco

    Joined Aug 12, 2014
    2,160 posts, 592 likes
    Hunter 31 (1983)
    US Pompano Beach FL
    I too need to do this since the current continuous line is not an equal diameter splice, and gets hung up and stuck when entering the drum. I have seen several example drawings and videos. My question is how strong is this splice since the splice area ends up being only the two outer jackets with no core material?
     


  10. Brian D

    Brian D Moderator

    Joined Feb 17, 2006
    4,077 posts, 718 likes
    Lancer 27PS
    US MCB Camp Pendleton, Ca KF6BL
    Chip, how strong does it need to be? And, can you coil the loop so that the spice is just outside the drum? There is a video on Youtube for same diameter end to end loop.
     


  11. Brian D

    Brian D Moderator

    Joined Feb 17, 2006
    4,077 posts, 718 likes
    Lancer 27PS
    US MCB Camp Pendleton, Ca KF6BL
    Ha!

    Don't mess with me you lil' SOB. LOL
    DSCF4739a.jpg
     


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  12. pateco

    pateco

    Joined Aug 12, 2014
    2,160 posts, 592 likes
    Hunter 31 (1983)
    US Pompano Beach FL
    That is what I end up doing. I wind the drum all the way in the opposite direction of my furl before attaching the sheets to the sail. then it takes almost all of that line to furl the sail. After multiple furls, the line has slipped enough on the drum, that winding it all the way until it jams no longer completely furls the sail. Then I have to detach the sheets, and start over. If I had anything larger than my current 110 jib, it would most likely not furl completely at all.
     


  13. Brian D

    Brian D Moderator

    Joined Feb 17, 2006
    4,077 posts, 718 likes
    Lancer 27PS
    US MCB Camp Pendleton, Ca KF6BL
    I went and installed the line on the boat. Splice is just (whew) the right size. However, the line is about 9' too short for my main sheet. Oh well. It will have to do until I put a spice in the one I removed.
     


    Rick D likes this.
  14. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    6,539 posts, 2,385 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    What “spice”are you thinking.
    • Sugar & spice and everything nice?
    • Oregano and then be ready for borders. “It’s just oregano. I swear”
    • Habanero pepper to spice up your life.
     


  15. Brian D

    Brian D Moderator

    Joined Feb 17, 2006
    4,077 posts, 718 likes
    Lancer 27PS
    US MCB Camp Pendleton, Ca KF6BL
    Spice Girls.
     


  16. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    6,539 posts, 2,385 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    CBA9D551-13F4-4397-9ACA-1A0FCDA5DECF.jpeg
    Well...Tell me what you want... what you really reallly want.
     


    Brian D likes this.
  17. Jerry Clark H356 SV Persi

    Jerry Clark H356 SV Persi

    Joined Mar 3, 2003
    628 posts, 44 likes
    Hunter 356
    US Grand Rivers
    Well after about 30 feet of doublebraid and two weeks off and on, I have finally gotten three splices to work. One is just shy of perfect, thevpther two acceptable. I finally had to start using less than perfect before I ran out of rope! I found a Marlow eye splice splice video on YouTube that works best. I kept catching strands of the cover going by the crossover point. The Marlow guy says the cores should slide easy and they do if you don’t catch anything. After doing the crossing, pull and if the don’t slide, cut off the splice and start again. I used aluminum Sampson Fids. Go two sizes down when sliding the cores past each other. I used electrical tape and made smooth and thin wraps tonsecure the core to the smaller fid. At the end, after milking the core as far as you can, tie a small rope through the unfinished eye, attach that rope loopmpnto a cleat, and pull and snap the rope to yank theclast 1/2 inch of core inside the cover. I did my outhaul and bothbtraveler lines. Now i’m Moving on to the topping lift, spinnaker halyard next.
     


  18. Brian D

    Brian D Moderator

    Joined Feb 17, 2006
    4,077 posts, 718 likes
    Lancer 27PS
    US MCB Camp Pendleton, Ca KF6BL
    I have learned that when I get to the cross-over I will no doubt catch something. So when I hit the cross-over and go just pass it, I will milk the cover toward the fid. If the core is caught it will work itself off the fid. This has helped a great deal and now my splicing is getting better. I just have to remember to taper the cover more so I do not get a hard spot just after the splice.
     


  19. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    6,539 posts, 2,385 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    That is a very good point. The taper is critical. Counting the threads and cutting them seems destructive but it is necessary to a smooth splice.
     


  20. jibes138

    jibes138

    Joined Jan 27, 2008
    2,821 posts, 126 likes
    ODay 35
    US Beaufort, NC
    Use the magic splicing tool. Throw away those fids, they are a PITA. Get some small diameter wire, make it the length of the fid you are using and double it up by twisting it to make it stiff. Using needle nose pliers put two little hooks on the ends of the wire. Now use the hooks by hooking strands of the cover and then use painters tape or electrical tape to tightly wrap where the hooks are. You can now easily push the wire through the core and pull the cover through. Fids with pushers are a pain. There is a tool you can buy called a super snake splicing tool. Mine broke with a few uses and I realized it is the same thing as my wire method and that is basically free. Here's a picture of a coat hanger magic splicing tool used for larger diameter double braid. For smaller line just use smaller and shorter wire and twist it to make it rigid. Spending money on splicing tools does not help, this tool is free and works better. I have done dozens of splices with this tool and they come out great. Tool will last longer than me.
    Magic_Splicing_Tool.jpg
     



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