My H376 has the 3JH2E Yanmar Engine with the type B panel. It has the key switch where you turn the key to start position and then depress the start button to the left of the key switch. I've been having problems with it starting since I've owned it ( 1 year now) and for a while I thought I was having problems finding neutral but have eliminated that. I replaced the key switch and the start button lately and it starts up perfectly at the slip but after sailing when it's time to crank it up, turn the key and hit the start button, nothing, absolutetly nothing. After turning the key and repeated efforts of hitting the start button it finally starts. Any idea what I should troubleshoot next???
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a couple ideas
I would look first for a loose wire ohe starter, battery or switches. Then i would look at the selenoid on the stater. jump it at the starter and see what happens if you have current to the starter and it stil wont turn over is probably the selioid not clicking in to engage the starter. If the starter engages but wont turn the motor i would suspect a battery problem.
I would look first for a loose wire ohe starter, battery or switches. Then i would look at the selenoid on the stater. jump it at the starter and see what happens if you have current to the starter and it stil wont turn over is probably the selioid not clicking in to engage the starter. If the starter engages but wont turn the motor i would suspect a battery problem.
Same Problem
There are a lot of comments on this in past posts. After new switches, starter, batteries, etc. I finally cleaned off all the ground wires to the engine and it worked for a while. Again no start. Finally I figured it out. There is (on my 336)a push in type connection point from the starter switch wire to the starter. I cut this out, soldered the two ends of the wires together and no more starting problems. I have a 95 and I think some corrosion on the copper was making a bad connection. Hope this helps.
There are a lot of comments on this in past posts. After new switches, starter, batteries, etc. I finally cleaned off all the ground wires to the engine and it worked for a while. Again no start. Finally I figured it out. There is (on my 336)a push in type connection point from the starter switch wire to the starter. I cut this out, soldered the two ends of the wires together and no more starting problems. I have a 95 and I think some corrosion on the copper was making a bad connection. Hope this helps.
Yanmar Roulette
David, I have a 1999 h380 which is pretty much the same boat as your's. I have spent in excess of $500.00USD trying to resolve the very same problem you are experiencing. I've talked to Hunter, they claim they've never heard of such a problem. I've talked with Yanmar, they too claim that they have never heard of such a problem. I replaced my starter, solenoid and starting battery and it still would not start after even a short sail. So then I started thinking that it is was a cable issue, so I disconnected the "one size fits all" harness that Yanmar uses at the back of the engine and cut out the big plug with the three wires and put butt connectors on each wire. I then went to the other end of the harness at the key switch and did the same thing, cut out the big plug and put butt connectors on the three wires. This seemed to help for a short time but once again the start/no start problem returned. I use my boat a lot so I've had plenty of time to evaluate this problem. One observation I've had is that if my refrigerator is running when I turn on the starting battery and immediately try to start the engine, it won't start. Same thing if I've been sailing a long time with the running lights on. If I shut off the fridge and wait one minute, it starts first try. This holds true with the running lights. Once in a while I even have to shut off everything, instruments, running lights, and fridge. By the way, having do take these steps while you are in harms way compounds the potential for a serious accident. And so here's my conclusion, the starting battery needs to be larger than a group 27, the wiring harness from Yanmar needs to have larger diameter wires to decrease resistance(ohms), Hunter needs to address this problem with a massive recall before somebody gets seriously injured and/or killed and Yanmar need to step up and admit that they are working on the "cheap" when it comes to cable aquisition. The only positive thing that's come out of this is that now I can dock a 38' under sail! The comment from my local dealer was "what do you think you bought, a Swan", nice.
David, I have a 1999 h380 which is pretty much the same boat as your's. I have spent in excess of $500.00USD trying to resolve the very same problem you are experiencing. I've talked to Hunter, they claim they've never heard of such a problem. I've talked with Yanmar, they too claim that they have never heard of such a problem. I replaced my starter, solenoid and starting battery and it still would not start after even a short sail. So then I started thinking that it is was a cable issue, so I disconnected the "one size fits all" harness that Yanmar uses at the back of the engine and cut out the big plug with the three wires and put butt connectors on each wire. I then went to the other end of the harness at the key switch and did the same thing, cut out the big plug and put butt connectors on the three wires. This seemed to help for a short time but once again the start/no start problem returned. I use my boat a lot so I've had plenty of time to evaluate this problem. One observation I've had is that if my refrigerator is running when I turn on the starting battery and immediately try to start the engine, it won't start. Same thing if I've been sailing a long time with the running lights on. If I shut off the fridge and wait one minute, it starts first try. This holds true with the running lights. Once in a while I even have to shut off everything, instruments, running lights, and fridge. By the way, having do take these steps while you are in harms way compounds the potential for a serious accident. And so here's my conclusion, the starting battery needs to be larger than a group 27, the wiring harness from Yanmar needs to have larger diameter wires to decrease resistance(ohms), Hunter needs to address this problem with a massive recall before somebody gets seriously injured and/or killed and Yanmar need to step up and admit that they are working on the "cheap" when it comes to cable aquisition. The only positive thing that's come out of this is that now I can dock a 38' under sail! The comment from my local dealer was "what do you think you bought, a Swan", nice.
OK, let's not get carried away here.
This problem is caused by a bad electrical connection, not a design flaw from Yanmar or Hunter. Well, maybe some poor ideas from Yanmar. But it has to respond to standard trouble shooting procedures. First make sure all connections are clean. Check the ground side first. Then do the switch side. Don't forget to check the plugs in the harness. If nothing obvious is found, get the battery load tested. Many sailors here have installed a relay at the starter solenoid. I prefer clean contacts and a dab of silicone. A relay on a relay seems to be a workaround. These standard checks should find your problem. If it turns out to be one of the harness plugs, well, I replaced all of my harness for less than a hundred bucks.
This problem is caused by a bad electrical connection, not a design flaw from Yanmar or Hunter. Well, maybe some poor ideas from Yanmar. But it has to respond to standard trouble shooting procedures. First make sure all connections are clean. Check the ground side first. Then do the switch side. Don't forget to check the plugs in the harness. If nothing obvious is found, get the battery load tested. Many sailors here have installed a relay at the starter solenoid. I prefer clean contacts and a dab of silicone. A relay on a relay seems to be a workaround. These standard checks should find your problem. If it turns out to be one of the harness plugs, well, I replaced all of my harness for less than a hundred bucks.
Yanmar Starting
Once you've checked on the electrical connections and still have the problem, I would suggest adding a 12vdc relay (with a 30 amp ATO fuse on the hot wire)to the starter solenoid. I had the same symptoms with my 2GM20F and this solved the problem for around $25.
Once you've checked on the electrical connections and still have the problem, I would suggest adding a 12vdc relay (with a 30 amp ATO fuse on the hot wire)to the starter solenoid. I had the same symptoms with my 2GM20F and this solved the problem for around $25.
Relay
The relay is an easy and good fix. Radio Shack sells several that will work. As far as it being a "work around" I don't agree. Many cars use a relay to supply the voltage to a component. Come to think of it the refrigerator (Adler - Barber) has one on the compressor. The thermostat is a low amperage switch that would burn up if the compressor current was run through it. In fact the one on an Adler - Barber is the exact way that it should be wired. Vinny
The relay is an easy and good fix. Radio Shack sells several that will work. As far as it being a "work around" I don't agree. Many cars use a relay to supply the voltage to a component. Come to think of it the refrigerator (Adler - Barber) has one on the compressor. The thermostat is a low amperage switch that would burn up if the compressor current was run through it. In fact the one on an Adler - Barber is the exact way that it should be wired. Vinny
Check voltages
in all of the circuits and you will figure it out with certainty. It will require some long leads to your meter or someone else to push the starter button while you do the testing. Be careful doing the latter. You do not want to get too "wrapped up" in your work!
in all of the circuits and you will figure it out with certainty. It will require some long leads to your meter or someone else to push the starter button while you do the testing. Be careful doing the latter. You do not want to get too "wrapped up" in your work!
Vinny, I have to stick to my 'workaround' opinion.
The entire world revolves around relays. The list of indispensable functions is endless. IMHO using an ADDITIONAL relay to get the starter to work as it is designed is a workaround. The solenoid is a relay. Hell, I've used this trick on my hotrod. The real problem was a too small starter. That's fixed. I do prefer a clean terminal. And a solenoids' internal contacts may indeed be the cause of this problem. I had a bad one once,,on a Yanmar.
The entire world revolves around relays. The list of indispensable functions is endless. IMHO using an ADDITIONAL relay to get the starter to work as it is designed is a workaround. The solenoid is a relay. Hell, I've used this trick on my hotrod. The real problem was a too small starter. That's fixed. I do prefer a clean terminal. And a solenoids' internal contacts may indeed be the cause of this problem. I had a bad one once,,on a Yanmar.
Not My 376
Interested and amazed to hear of all your troubles. Have had my 376 since 1996 and never once has it required more than one revolution of the engine to start. I invariably start in neutral and with zero throttle. i.e. The lever is upright. My boat lives on a mooring with no shore power and I have never touched the engine start battery since new. It is a Delco maintenance free type and, of course has, never done any work. I have to make sure the stop cable is pressed fully home though. I don't even bother to bleed the air when I change filters. Just start straight up and fast idle for a few minutes and never hear the engine cough when it ingests the air bubbles. Engine has about 1000 hours on it. Now you guys got me worried! Am I just lucky?
Interested and amazed to hear of all your troubles. Have had my 376 since 1996 and never once has it required more than one revolution of the engine to start. I invariably start in neutral and with zero throttle. i.e. The lever is upright. My boat lives on a mooring with no shore power and I have never touched the engine start battery since new. It is a Delco maintenance free type and, of course has, never done any work. I have to make sure the stop cable is pressed fully home though. I don't even bother to bleed the air when I change filters. Just start straight up and fast idle for a few minutes and never hear the engine cough when it ingests the air bubbles. Engine has about 1000 hours on it. Now you guys got me worried! Am I just lucky?
David
What dock are you on? I've done my share of electrical work and have the same boat. I might be able to help you troubleshoot.
What dock are you on? I've done my share of electrical work and have the same boat. I might be able to help you troubleshoot.
Lucky Donalex
Yea, I do think you're lucky, but I don't think it has anything to do with your Yanmar.
I have had three Yanmars: one, three and four cyl. The one would sometimes refuse to start and it was the fuse that would blow from time to time. The three was intermittant for a while and a new starter solenoid fixed that. I have not had any problem on the four and it has 1500 hours. Am I lucky? I hope so! Rick D.
Yea, I do think you're lucky, but I don't think it has anything to do with your Yanmar.
I have had three Yanmars: one, three and four cyl. The one would sometimes refuse to start and it was the fuse that would blow from time to time. The three was intermittant for a while and a new starter solenoid fixed that. I have not had any problem on the four and it has 1500 hours. Am I lucky? I hope so! Rick D.Hey Franklin
I'm at Watergate, pier 11 slip 35 and I sure could use a hand on this one. I'm planning on playing hookey Friday to try to chase this down.
I'm at Watergate, pier 11 slip 35 and I sure could use a hand on this one. I'm planning on playing hookey Friday to try to chase this down.
email
Shoot me an email later this week at FranklinGray@Gmail.com to help remind me but I'm pretty sure I will not be able to make it down there until at least 7pm on Friday night. Maybe if you haven't fixed it by then, we can either work on it later that weekend or next weekend. So far I got two ideas for the long weekend....throw a party at the dock or go sailing into the gulf for the 3 days. Weather plays a part and/or if I could get people together for a party plays a part too. BTW: I'm at the boardwalk.
Shoot me an email later this week at FranklinGray@Gmail.com to help remind me but I'm pretty sure I will not be able to make it down there until at least 7pm on Friday night. Maybe if you haven't fixed it by then, we can either work on it later that weekend or next weekend. So far I got two ideas for the long weekend....throw a party at the dock or go sailing into the gulf for the 3 days. Weather plays a part and/or if I could get people together for a party plays a part too. BTW: I'm at the boardwalk.
No crank
Ihave the same problem. Im a GM auto tech 23 years, so I have a little back ground. My problem is in the Wire between Switch and solenoid. Clean the connecters at the back of the engine. solenoid feed is WHITE. if this fixes for some time replace the wire. ps it was not the switch
Ihave the same problem. Im a GM auto tech 23 years, so I have a little back ground. My problem is in the Wire between Switch and solenoid. Clean the connecters at the back of the engine. solenoid feed is WHITE. if this fixes for some time replace the wire. ps it was not the switch
Put a push button on the starter.
We have a 1991 433 and it has the same problem. I added an extra push button with heavy wires at the starter and if the engine won't start from the panel I know it will always start from down below. The 43 has a door right at the starter so it's only a minor delay. I will run No. 10 wire to the panel this winter when we go back down to the boat. Take care. Reid of Changes in Latitude.
We have a 1991 433 and it has the same problem. I added an extra push button with heavy wires at the starter and if the engine won't start from the panel I know it will always start from down below. The 43 has a door right at the starter so it's only a minor delay. I will run No. 10 wire to the panel this winter when we go back down to the boat. Take care. Reid of Changes in Latitude.
Several considerations (long)
I have over three years of experience troubleshooting this very problem and would like to share some of that experience. First, I agree with others that have said there is no weakness in the Yanmar starter or solenoid -- or the starter key switch for that matter. The reason this problem is so difficult to troubleshoot ("sometimes works; sometimes doesn't") is that it's a product of three different sources of "weak links": 1) a couple of Hunter production shortcuts, 2) general maintenance of connections and, of course, 3) battery condition/voltage. First and foremost is the fact that Hunter chose to use the key switch to energize the battery paralleling relay (located behind the panel under the chart table on the 376). The paralleling relay enables allows otherwise isolated battery banks to receive power from the engine's alternator. Nigel Calder's book on boat systems says this is an acceptable way to wire the charging circuit -- BUT ONLY if power for the paralleling relay comes from something like an oil pressure sending unit that only energizes the relay after the engine is running. Unfortunately, Hunter skipped that part and wired the paralleling relay directly to the key ON switch -- to operate in parallel with the starter solenoid -- which causes an unwanted voltage drop during those first crucial seconds of startup. All of this is compounded by 25 or 30 feet of 16 gauge wire running through multiple connections. (The wiring should have been beefier to provide more current to counteract aging components.) And lets throw in humidity engine heat as additional variables. Which brings us the second area of weaknesses: the connections. At different times over the years I have found 1) mild corrosion on the automotive-style quick connects at the rear of the engine 2) heat-induced relaxation of the clip-on connection on the starter solenoid and 3) vibration-induced looseness of the main engine ground cable near the starter motor. At different times I have "repaired" each of these individual conditions with the immediate result of the engine starting on the very next try. Finally, with so many opportunities for voltage loss, the starter battery must be capable of putting out something over 12.0 volts, because 11.8 just won't do. Regardless of other indications of a good battery, you should disconnect its cables and check its voltage while completely isolated. One of mine once showed 12v when cabled and 10.5 isolated (12v due to the solar panel, I suppose). I replaced it and "fixed" the starter problem once again. Regarding solutions, it's obvious that installing a dedicated relay (one that would operate with less current than the starter solenoid requires) to power the starter solenoid directly from the battery will work. But that's adding more complexity and connections. I've found that cleaning and reseating the wiring harness connections on the rear of the engine works wonders. But as a fallback, I installed an automotive-style rocker switch in the wire between the paralleling relay and the 12v coming from the key switch. I mounted the switch out of sight under the chart table. On the rare occasion (a couple times so far this year) that the engine starter doesn't energize, I switch the paralleling relay out of the loop and the starter relay gets 100% of the power. It always works. I then tighten/reseat connections and everything is fine for quite a while. Some day I might get around to upgrading the 16 ga. wire, but so far, so good. I hope this helps you in deciding which course of action to take.
I have over three years of experience troubleshooting this very problem and would like to share some of that experience. First, I agree with others that have said there is no weakness in the Yanmar starter or solenoid -- or the starter key switch for that matter. The reason this problem is so difficult to troubleshoot ("sometimes works; sometimes doesn't") is that it's a product of three different sources of "weak links": 1) a couple of Hunter production shortcuts, 2) general maintenance of connections and, of course, 3) battery condition/voltage. First and foremost is the fact that Hunter chose to use the key switch to energize the battery paralleling relay (located behind the panel under the chart table on the 376). The paralleling relay enables allows otherwise isolated battery banks to receive power from the engine's alternator. Nigel Calder's book on boat systems says this is an acceptable way to wire the charging circuit -- BUT ONLY if power for the paralleling relay comes from something like an oil pressure sending unit that only energizes the relay after the engine is running. Unfortunately, Hunter skipped that part and wired the paralleling relay directly to the key ON switch -- to operate in parallel with the starter solenoid -- which causes an unwanted voltage drop during those first crucial seconds of startup. All of this is compounded by 25 or 30 feet of 16 gauge wire running through multiple connections. (The wiring should have been beefier to provide more current to counteract aging components.) And lets throw in humidity engine heat as additional variables. Which brings us the second area of weaknesses: the connections. At different times over the years I have found 1) mild corrosion on the automotive-style quick connects at the rear of the engine 2) heat-induced relaxation of the clip-on connection on the starter solenoid and 3) vibration-induced looseness of the main engine ground cable near the starter motor. At different times I have "repaired" each of these individual conditions with the immediate result of the engine starting on the very next try. Finally, with so many opportunities for voltage loss, the starter battery must be capable of putting out something over 12.0 volts, because 11.8 just won't do. Regardless of other indications of a good battery, you should disconnect its cables and check its voltage while completely isolated. One of mine once showed 12v when cabled and 10.5 isolated (12v due to the solar panel, I suppose). I replaced it and "fixed" the starter problem once again. Regarding solutions, it's obvious that installing a dedicated relay (one that would operate with less current than the starter solenoid requires) to power the starter solenoid directly from the battery will work. But that's adding more complexity and connections. I've found that cleaning and reseating the wiring harness connections on the rear of the engine works wonders. But as a fallback, I installed an automotive-style rocker switch in the wire between the paralleling relay and the 12v coming from the key switch. I mounted the switch out of sight under the chart table. On the rare occasion (a couple times so far this year) that the engine starter doesn't energize, I switch the paralleling relay out of the loop and the starter relay gets 100% of the power. It always works. I then tighten/reseat connections and everything is fine for quite a while. Some day I might get around to upgrading the 16 ga. wire, but so far, so good. I hope this helps you in deciding which course of action to take.
Battery Condition?
Glad to read this post. I Have the same "problem" on a 28.5 - at least I think I do. In my case, nothing happens (like no power is going to the starter) when the start pushbutton is depressed the FIRST time after sailing for 3 hours or more. However, after releasing the button and pushing it again, the starter get power and the engine starts. The only constant here is that the battery isn't being charged between charged (except the short motor from the dock) during those 3 hours. I have a battery charger maintaining battery charge while at the dock. Therefore, there is NEVER a "problem" starting at the dock. My planned solution was to upgrade to more heavy duty batteries or isolate the starting battery from the house battery at the charging selector under the chart table - Run with the selector in the "1" or "2" position while underway instead of "both". I haven't done anything because the "problem" isn't such a big deal at this point. However, I am very interested to read the creative solutions you guys are able to come up with. Good Luck!
Glad to read this post. I Have the same "problem" on a 28.5 - at least I think I do. In my case, nothing happens (like no power is going to the starter) when the start pushbutton is depressed the FIRST time after sailing for 3 hours or more. However, after releasing the button and pushing it again, the starter get power and the engine starts. The only constant here is that the battery isn't being charged between charged (except the short motor from the dock) during those 3 hours. I have a battery charger maintaining battery charge while at the dock. Therefore, there is NEVER a "problem" starting at the dock. My planned solution was to upgrade to more heavy duty batteries or isolate the starting battery from the house battery at the charging selector under the chart table - Run with the selector in the "1" or "2" position while underway instead of "both". I haven't done anything because the "problem" isn't such a big deal at this point. However, I am very interested to read the creative solutions you guys are able to come up with. Good Luck!
Here is the possible answer
I started to do some research after writing my post. I went to ussailing.org's website and they recommend turning the battery selector switch to "1" or "2" instead of keeping it on "all" while sailing. This simple precaution will prevent our fail to start problem because there would be a physical seperation between the house and cranking batteries. Both batteries are in parallel with the charging selector switch in in the "all" position. Therefore, your radio and any other electrical/electronic components are actually draining the starting battery - hence the reason for low initial current during the first start attempt. This solution is contained in problem 9 of "Twenty-two problems a sailor encountered during his first two years of sailing:" on ussailing.org website. Now, those people who experience this problem, do you sail with your selector switch in "all"?
I started to do some research after writing my post. I went to ussailing.org's website and they recommend turning the battery selector switch to "1" or "2" instead of keeping it on "all" while sailing. This simple precaution will prevent our fail to start problem because there would be a physical seperation between the house and cranking batteries. Both batteries are in parallel with the charging selector switch in in the "all" position. Therefore, your radio and any other electrical/electronic components are actually draining the starting battery - hence the reason for low initial current during the first start attempt. This solution is contained in problem 9 of "Twenty-two problems a sailor encountered during his first two years of sailing:" on ussailing.org website. Now, those people who experience this problem, do you sail with your selector switch in "all"?
Voice of experience
Had the same problem 0n my 1996 376. As did others in our marina. After trying various wire cleaning schemes we all concluded that the wiring from the battery to the starter is undersized for the length of run. A Cole Herse spst solenoid solved all of our intermitant starting problems. Available though any NAPA store or West Marine (page 651)priced from $29.99 to $39.99 and a fairly easy install. Mounted above engine on bulkhead near overflow tank. An effective and inexpensive fix. I just wish Hunter and Yanmar would have owned up to problem. They must know about it by now. the problem wosens with age of wire. Good luck. Try it, it works
Had the same problem 0n my 1996 376. As did others in our marina. After trying various wire cleaning schemes we all concluded that the wiring from the battery to the starter is undersized for the length of run. A Cole Herse spst solenoid solved all of our intermitant starting problems. Available though any NAPA store or West Marine (page 651)priced from $29.99 to $39.99 and a fairly easy install. Mounted above engine on bulkhead near overflow tank. An effective and inexpensive fix. I just wish Hunter and Yanmar would have owned up to problem. They must know about it by now. the problem wosens with age of wire. Good luck. Try it, it works
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