Electrical issue? Engine will not start

[Kommy000]

Alright,
I posted a few months ago about replacing my original fuel tank with a new one.
I finally finished today and while at it, changed the fuel filters too and looks like I got lucky and had no air in lines since when I bleed the lines, only fuel comes out and no air.
So I go to start the engine and nothing happens. No sound, no lights, no clicking. It looks like there is no power but I do have power to bilge pump, fuel gauge, instruments and so on. The only electrical disconnect and reconnect I've done was the 2 electrical lines for the fuel sending unit in the new tank. I'm thinking maybe with me shifting the whole bundle of electrical lines going form the starting yanmar panel outside to the engine and maybe something got disconnected but I see nothing like that.
Am I missing something simple? Is there a hidden fuse somewhere that maybe got fried at the same time. I forgot to mention I changed the bilge pump while I was at it today and it works just fine but maybe I fried some fuse somewhere?
I'm thinking of taking the outside yanmar panel out and see maybe something behind it that I do not see since I can't really get behind it through the storage locker?
If it was air in fuel lines or something else, at least the starter will crank the engine over, or I would see and hear the solenoid move or at least buzzing sound on panel would work or lights, but it's nothing....just dead. Have to be something simple and singular that messed up.
Any ideas? Just for shits and giggles, is there a way for me to jump the engine without the panel just to see to make sure the engine running fine with the new tank and fuel filters?
Thanks

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Is power reaching the starter solenoid?

 

[Kommy000]

I'm not that savvy, so I would need to know how I would check that. I have a meter and I put one on black and on on red connectors on the solenoid or at least I believe it is and it does show around 12v or 13v I dont remember , which doesn't change if I have the key turned on or not at the yanmar panel.

 

[heritage]

I'm thinking that a weak battery or not so good connection from the battery to starter would at least give a clicking noise when trying to start. I believe your problem is in the panel. Double check all connections at the back of the panel and take the connector plugs between the panel and the engine apart and clean them. There is a fuse in the electrical bundle located near the engine. It is located in a plastic capsule that pops apart. May be hard to find if wrapped in tape. Last resort for starting would be to put a screwdriver between the two large lugs on the solenoid located on top of the starter. This would bypass the normal ignition circuit. Be warned,,, sparks will fly.

 

[SG]

Kommy000:
The starter solenoid is relay. It is a "switch" that functions as a contactor: A lower amperage 12v power provided to it, cause an electromagnet to pull a spring loaded plate across a terminal which allows a high amperage load to go to the starter motor.

This solenoid is used because otherwise you'd have BIG conductors leading to starter panel and you'd have to deal with excess voltage loss concerns.

The challenge that some of us had with Yanmar's (and other diesels) is that if the voltage of the battery isn't high enough, or there is a relatively small voltage loss, the solenoid doesn't "fire" and pull the plate to close the circuit.

IF that's the issue, the simple cure is to install a small relay that is close to the solenoid, the small relay isn't as sensitive to small voltage losses (it will do it's job at 11.5 volts, or whatever). That small relay, then is connected to a line which is close to the engine start battery, has plenty of juice, and "fires" the solenoid up, which closes the circuit to the starter motor, and you turn the engine over.

You may, or may not be getting power from the engine start panel -- whether it be from the key, or button.

The "jump the solenoid" method with a screwdriver something you should be careful doing. You can "spot weld" the screwdriver to a grounded piece of metal and then you have a hard "fault" which produces a lot of heat and other issues. Have some gloves and be prepared to scramble to disconnect the "spot welded" screw driver (or or pliers, or whatever). In a pinch, you'll have to quickly disconnect the engine start battery with a switch or at the terminals. Be careful, you should be okay, but watch what you're doing. Where some eye protectors, there will be a spark :^))).

If that doesn't turn the engine over, you probably have no power to the starter or you have a dead starter.

Does the start panel seem to have power (lights, gauges, buzzer,)?
You should be able to get some voltage coming to the solenoid from the button or key switch. Did you measure that?

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

I'm not that savvy, so I would need to know how I would check that. I have a meter and I put one on black and on on red connectors on the solenoid or at least I believe it is and it does show around 12v or 13v I dont remember , which doesn't change if I have the key turned on or not at the yanmar panel.

That is precisely what you should have done as a first step. It shows power is getting to the solenoid thereby eliminating the fuse 'guess'.

The next step is to repeat that measurement watching the voltage while someone tries to start the engine. If it drops significantly, that would indicate a bad connection somewhere in circuit from the battery which prevents sufficient current getting to the solenoid.

If the voltage remains constant, it may be a bad solenoid or something else but small steps.

Let's see what the start test indicates.

 

[Benny17441]

If you have not had engine to control panel issues in your 81 H27 you are overdue. The wiring harness is routed around some sharp fiberglass corners and after years of hull flexing the insulation gets chafed and circuits short out and wires get cut resulting from intermittent alarms to loss of power to the solenoid. I'm not saying this is your case but recommend you conduct a visual inspection of the harness especially where it bends. Another suspect is the pin connectors which in time corrode and require replacement. Lastly old wiring's increase in electrical resistance results in voltage drop to the solenoid. It is a known Hunter malady and the remedy is to install an auxiliary solenoid or run new external wiring. The symptoms are push the button and nothing happens. Try crossing the starter solenoid terminals with a jumper wire or screwdriver and see if the engine kicks over. If it does chances are the solenoid is not getting adequate power. To test the solenoid itself run wires from a battery to the solenoid (+) connector and make contact with the negative to ground. Good luck.

 

[Kommy000]

Thanks for all the suggestions but my question is. Say it is not getting enough power to solenoid, would the panel at least light up, make a sound? Or solenoid make a clicking noise or close to it?
As it stands now, the panel with key acts like there is no power to the whole boat. The panel lights do not come on, no panel sound while the boat itself has power everywhere. When I'm standing by the engine and somebody turns the key on and presses the button- nothing happens, nothing clicks, nothing moves and again, nothing from the key panel. That is why I was thinking it is something else that completely cut off the power, so maybe that in line hidden fuse or me playing and shifting the wires messed up the connection on the back of the key panel.
I will try jumping the solenoid to see if it starts plus will pull out the plastic connector at the engine and the key panel and clean them.
Any recommendation on cleaning the electrical connection like that plug? I don't want to use something wrong and see the plastic melt or corrode the metal. I know local big box and auto parts store sells dielectric grease and I think battery terminals cleaner. Not sure if I should use the same.

 

[kloudie1]

Not familiar with the wiring on that Yanmar, but on others, there is a 10 amp fuse in a little box on the main power wire that feeds the panel.. That fuse box is ...uuuuuhhhh.. substandard.. and sometimes bumping it will cause it to lose connection.. you are correct in observation.. when you turn the switch on, the panel should power up and the oil pressure alarm should sound. The little green box with tape is the fusebox on the 3GMF engines.. The multi wire connectors (2) should be cleaned .. and check the ground circuit for good connections as well.. You can clean the connectors with a small piece of sandpaper rolled into a tube.. insert into the female plug and clean the sockets. 200 grit is fine enough.. clean the male prongs too..

 

[SG]

If the [engine] control panel doesn't light up with the battery switch on, then you need to address that. I'd first get power to that.

The fuse suggestion is a possibility. You just need to start through the circuit to see what's going on. Generally, nothing happens until you turn the key. It might be there,

 

[kloudie1]

Ford service books used to have a "wiggle test" suggestion .. turn the key on and carefully wiggle the connectors one by one until you hear the low oil alarm.. that one needs attention..

 

[heritage]

I like Kloudie's wiggle test suggestion. If you do the test, be sure to spin the wires that go into the little green fuse box to insure they are passing enough current to sound the low oil pressure alarm or simple take the fuse out and clean and check it. On my 2gmf the fuse box is white and poorly made. The tape keeps it from popping open.

 

[Frizzgrig]

You don't say which particular model engine you have. I mention this because the old YSM-8 and YSM-12 Yanmars could be started by hand, without the panel or any electrical connections at all.

 

[SG]

I think it's a 9 HP Yanmar that was the standard engine on a Hunter 27.

 

[Maine Sail]

Any recommendation on cleaning the electrical connection like that plug? I don't want to use something wrong and see the plastic melt or corrode the metal. I know local big box and auto parts store sells dielectric grease and I think battery terminals cleaner. Not sure if I should use the same.

The only contact cleaner I use today is DeoxIt D5 by Caig Labs. It's the only contact cleaner I have found that actually does what it says it does. While not inexpensive it is a very good product.

is there a way for me to jump the engine without the panel just to see to make sure the engine running fine with the new tank and fuel filters?

A remote start switch is a very handy tool for working on engines, doing valve adjustments etc. and saves a trip to the cockpit.. You can even permanently install one, in the engine bay, as an emergency back up.