Edson steering pedestal & wheel pilot

[Scott T-Bird]

I'm finally getting around to installing my brand new, out of the box, Simrad WP-30 (even tho it is at least 6 or 7 years old, I'm guessing). Instructions say that it should only take an hour to install (yeah, right). Actually it is very simple but I always find a way to screw something up.
The bracket that clamps to the pedestal is supposed to be in a precise position relative to the center of the wheel hub.
I have a very old Edson Classic Series pedestal with 6-7/8" top. The standpipe itself is just about 3-1/2 to 4" diameter, I suppose. I have the standard dual control with clutch and throttle on opposite sides. Unfortunately for me, there is a cap nut that projects from the pedestal on the aft side right where I need to clamp the bracket. I could have modified the bracket easily enough by drilling a hole in the right place. Instead (because I'm an idiot), I loosened the cap nut and found a threaded end projecting out. Did I leave it alone and put the cap nut back on? Of course not ... I poked it inside the pedestal and can't get it back out. It is still mostly in place, just inside the cylinder. Is this a cable holder (I'm looking on Edson's web site trying to figure it out)? I'm hoping my chain isn't going to jump off the sprocket.
I can remove my compass, but the 4 bolts that hold the plastic head of the pedestal in place are frozen. I'm afraid to even mess with those. Even if I remove the head, I'm not sure how to get my hands down past the top of the chain sprocket to work on anything, much less fish the wiring for the autopilot and chartplotter.
Any ideas?

 

[dlochner]

It is still mostly in place, just inside the cylinder. Is this a cable holder (I'm looking on Edson's web site trying to figure it out)? I'm hoping my chain isn't going to jump off the sprocket.

Yes it is a cable stop for the throttle and shift cables. It would be a good idea to get those secured again. Putting the chain back on the sprocket is not that big a deal, loosen up the cables on the steering quadrant, put the chain back on and then tighten the steering cables. If the chain did come off the sprocket, you have some serious work to do on the steering system.

The 4 bolts holding the compass mount are SS the pedestal is aluminum. They have married.

You can try the usual PB Blaster route, that will take several days. A stubby 7/16" wrench is helpful. A more drastic solution (and more expensive) is to cut the plastic mount away so you can get PB Blaster on the threads and use time and chemistry to loosen the bolts. Without the compass mount, you might be able to use a bigger wrench or ratchet set. Finally, heat may be an option your best option. A torch to the bolt until it is very hot and then maybe it will want to escape.

 

[jibes138]

Scott I had one of those screws seize and it was a nightmare but don't cut the plastic housing! I cut the slotted screw head off with an oscillating tool. Then slide the plastic housing off. Now use PB directly on the threads and let it soak. Then I used a vice grip on the shank of the screw and eventually it broke free. I replaced the slotted screws with hex head bolts and used anti seize on the threads. That way I can use a 6 point socket and ratchet wrench next time versus a screwdriver. That nut you removed is a cable clamp. It holds the cables against the side of the pedestal so they don't interfere with the steering cables.

 

[Skipper]

Can you see it at all inside the pedestal?
If so, I'd use a flashlight and a long, thin, rigid, non magnetic object to push it back out from the inside.
You don't want anything magnetic because it will just pull it all the way out the back.
A dowel would be good. And a steady hand.
Edit: or if it needs to be guided into the hole, use a clamp flashlight and 2 dowels, like pincers. It's cramped in there but if you can see it, you can touch it.
One more thing are you sure the compass is not just held in with a circular clamp around the base?

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Scott I had one of those screws seize and it was a nightmare but don't cut the plastic housing! I cut the slotted screw head off with an oscillating tool. Then slide the plastic housing off. Now use PB directly on the threads and let it soak. Then I used a vice grip on the shank of the screw and eventually it broke free. I replaced the slotted screws with hex head bolts and used anti seize on the threads. That way I can use a 6 point socket and ratchet wrench next time versus a screwdriver. That nut you removed is a cable clamp. It holds the cables against the side of the pedestal so they don't interfere with the steering cables.

I talked with the yard owner about it and he basically suggested about the same technique, except that he was thinking about drilling the bolts out through the top of the head (He hasn't looked at it yet). I'm a little skeptical about that because, as you say, it is a slotted screw head. Right now I'm thinking that an impact driver with flathead driver will either break the heads off or loosen the bolts, either way it would be what I'm after, no? If the heads break off, I should still be able to slide the plastic compass mount off, unless the bolt is also threaded or frozen onto the plastic housing. That could be a real problem if I can't get a vice grip on the shank.
Skipper, I couldn't see in there very well. My light was not that strong and my eyes were acclimated to bright sunlight, so it was futile at the time on Sunday. However, the wheel hub seems to block access from the top and I still don't see how I'm going to get my hands into that recessed area. The compass comes off with 4 screws. I can see the need to remove the chain and I know how to loosen the cables. DL, I'm not sure what you are saying about what to do with the chain once it is loosened. Obviously, I don't want to drop it down into the abyss, but I don't know where I'm going to move it in order to get tools at the cable clamp. Maybe I secure it to a thin wire hook so that I can lower it out of the way and then pull it back out?
Maybe I should convert to tiller steering? Arghh! The threaded end of the small bolt for the cable clamp is frustratingly close. I can see it thru the little hole, but it doesn't exactly align with the hole. I can poke it into place with an awl, but I don't have a tool to extract it. If the yard owner can take this job off my hands, I'm going that route at almost any (reasonable) price. I asked him to finish the install. He said he would do the rest and leave the electronics cable underneath the floor for me to hook up. I'm pretty confident I can do that part.

 

[dlochner]

Scott, if you need to remove the chain to access the cable clamp, you will need to remove the sprocket and axle. This is one of those jobs that disassembly makes the job less frustrating and ultimately faster than screwing around with trying to work around the parts in cramped quarters. It is not a particularly difficult job. And while you're at it, you might as well get a rebuild kit from Edson and replace the bearings, the rebuild kit has the instructions for disassembly. With all the stuff out of the pedestal, you'll have plenty of room to put things back together.

Big items like the chain are not that hard to retrieve once they have dropped down the pedestal. Little things like the clevis pins for gear and throttle cables are! A rag stuffed in the pedestal can capture things that are dropped. Tying the cables off is probably worthwhile, keeps them out of the way and reduces the chance of them dropping to the bottom. I once dropped a brake shoe down the pedestal. Took a long stick, put a lot of 5 Minute Epoxy on the end of it and glued it to the brake shoe and then gingerly lifted it out of the pedestal.

If you go for the pedestal rebuild while you have it a apart, the wheel brake can be rebuilt for a lot less money than Edson charges and for the cost of one steering cable you can buy a swaging tool, swages and enough wire for both cables.

 

[jibes138]

Scott I tried an electric impact driver but it had no effect, The problem is the screws are so long that they just twist and the threads don't break loose, plus you can't get the PB right on the threads. Don't use a drill either, an oscillating tool with a metal cutting bit just hold it vertical into the screwdriver slot and cut a little way down but before you hit the plastic. Then when the two sides are real thin use a screwdriver to break off the two sides of the screw head. Now the plastic housing slides right up and off. Then get the PB right on the threads and give it a little time. Now with vice grips work it back and forth a little to break it free. Then unscrew it. A tap the right size to chase the threads is a good idea after it is out. The screws are way too long to drill them out completely. You could cut them flush with the pedestal after removing the plastic housing then drill them out and re-tap the holes. Best if you can get the screws out. If not drill them out and tap for and put in a heli-coil insert for the right size bolt. Seemed to me a bolt made a lot more sense than a screw so you can use a socket on it and get some torque, a screwdriver just doesn't cut it. Those are like three inch screws or maybe longer if I remember correctly.
Note: Once you remove your cables from the levers they are held into that clamp with the little screw that sticks out the back of the pedestal. Grab the cables and work them around until the screw comes out the hole. Very quickly get the nut on it before you are too late and it goes back in. You might not need to remove that housing at all, just pull the cables off the levers and see if you can manipulate the assembly. Don't lose the cotter pins. Might save you a lot of agony. If you have a quadrant loosen the cables and you can lift the chain off the sprocket and move it to the front to get it out of the way, Good luck.