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Don't see that happen every day

Discussion in 'Ask All Sailors' started by Jackdaw, Feb 12, 2019. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    9,754 posts, 2,795 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    In December at the YC on Lake DeGray where we kept BlueJ for a winter, an Oday 322 sank in its slip. The owner was 'hard to reach' so it sat there hanging on its lines for a week or two.

    48363385_2684083328269297_4738241425987076096_o.jpg
    48277536_2684084458269184_2979516540921053184_o.jpg

    Owner never showed. The marina finally secured it to a barge, cut the lines and dragged it to the shore. As they got close it seemed the wreck was sitting funny for a sailboat.

    49551501_2731129223564707_7352099784359936000_o.jpg


    Guess that's why. The keel had fallen clean off and is now sitting under the boats old slip.

    51582926_2792076190803343_2565244100290805760_n.jpg
    51556350_2792076370803325_2154314437002002432_n.jpg

    They cut it up and sold anything valuable to pay for the recovery.
     


    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  2. dlochner

    dlochner

    Joined Jan 11, 2014
    3,144 posts, 1,420 likes
    Sabre 362
    113 US Fair Haven, NY
    That's a way to ruin a day. No insurance? What caused the keel to fall off while sitting in a slip?
     


  3. Parsons

    Parsons

    Joined Jul 12, 2011
    683 posts, 274 likes
    Catalina 36
    US Bay City, MI
    Do you think a better bilge pump would have helped with clearing the water from that foot-diameter hole? Sorry for his loss.

    The weakness of the hull in the O'day 322 keel area was a discussion in this thread on SBO a couple years ago started by @Tally Ho , who ended up buying one as his profile shows: https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/keel-issues-on-oday-322.163404/ Also, thanks to @AndreNJ11 for an authoritative analysis of the keel.

    Another story of a near disaster was told by @The Tanqueray in: https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/keel-retention-322-part-2-the-good-news.167051/
     


    Gunni likes this.
  4. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    9,754 posts, 2,795 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    IIRC @Maine Sail was first to report the underbuilt sump area on the series.
     


    kloudie1 likes this.
  5. Justin_NSA

    Justin_NSA

    Joined Jul 7, 2004
    5,267 posts, 1,027 likes
    Hunter 30T
    US Cheney, KS
  6. capta

    capta

    Joined Jun 4, 2009
    2,896 posts, 991 likes
    Pearson 530
    na Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
    flooding flow rate.PNG
    This only goes to 10 inches, but at a certain point, none of us can carry enough pumping capacity.
     


    Parsons likes this.
  7. Simon Sexton

    Simon Sexton

    Joined Nov 1, 2017
    508 posts, 224 likes
    Catalina 25 Tall Rig
    Valiant US Watergate Marina, Kemah, TX
    Ya know, that happened to one of A&M's boats some years ago, during a race...goes to show the importance of keel maintenance! Can't imagine the gut-wrenching feeling the guy had when he got there...
     


  8. capta

    capta

    Joined Jun 4, 2009
    2,896 posts, 991 likes
    Pearson 530
    na Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
    How would maintenance have altered this? I may be mistaken but it looks as though the keel bolts tore right through the hull.
     


    Tom J likes this.
  9. Parsons

    Parsons

    Joined Jul 12, 2011
    683 posts, 274 likes
    Catalina 36
    US Bay City, MI
    Cool table, @capta , and I was being sarcastic about being able to pump out from such a huge hole. I think that you're reading your table backwards, though. The vertical numbers are hole diameter in inches, and the column headers are feet below the waterline. So my guess of a foot-across hole about 3 feet below the water (keel / hull joint) would produce a mind-blowing 5,000 gallons a minute, or about 20 tons of water. The only thing holding it back was the pressure from the sealed saloon. She probably was on the bottom within a couple minutes.
     


    capta likes this.
  10. Justin_NSA

    Justin_NSA

    Joined Jul 7, 2004
    5,267 posts, 1,027 likes
    Hunter 30T
    US Cheney, KS
    I sometimes wonder if my keel bolt washers are big enough. He must have grounded on something and started the process.
     


  11. Davidasailor26

    Davidasailor26

    Joined May 17, 2004
    1,508 posts, 350 likes
    Beneteau Oceanis 37 LE
    US Havre de Grace
    Wow. Very lucky that it came off sitting empty at the dock instead of out sailing with a boat full of crew.
     


    Parsons likes this.
  12. Simon Sexton

    Simon Sexton

    Joined Nov 1, 2017
    508 posts, 224 likes
    Catalina 25 Tall Rig
    Valiant US Watergate Marina, Kemah, TX
    That's a good question, honestly had to think about it for a minute, haha. I remember just how much our late Skipper Crowl stressed the importance of keel-hull joint inspection. "Every time your boat is hauled out for maintenance of any sort, it is absolutely necessary to have a surveyor or professional check the soundness of your hull and keel joint." This includes the fiberglass where the keel bolts are fastened to the hull in the bilge.
     


  13. Hayden Watson

    Hayden Watson

    Joined Apr 5, 2009
    646 posts, 155 likes
    Catalina '88 C30 tr/bs
    US Oak Harbor, WA
    I suspect that the boat sank due to leaks around the keel which overwhelmed the bilge pumps. The major damage and loss of the keel was likely caused by the contact with the bottom and wave action.
     


  14. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    9,754 posts, 2,795 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    The Cynthia Woods.

    Funny you say Keel Maintenance.. after the accident the USCG issued a report blaming the university for lack of said maintenance after a string of soft groundings with the boat. Stung, the U commissioned a fancy report that said the maintenance did not factor, but lack of buildup in the keel of the lightweight, one-off racer’s sump did. I read both reports at the time, and I have to say I agree more with the A&Ms report. In any case, it sure left a clean hole in the bottom.

    EEAFC914-917F-49E3-BF67-3685BC157CBF.jpeg

    EDIT NOTE - To be prefectly clear, this picture was of the race boat ‘Cynthia Wood’ which lost her keel and sank in the gulf with the loss of one life, and not the O’Day.
     


    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
    Simon Sexton likes this.
  15. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    9,754 posts, 2,795 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    The boat never hit bottom, and sat suspended inside the breakwall. I do agree that the keel probably did not fall straight off, but broke off after it sank and sat suspended at that crazy angle.
     


  16. Simon Sexton

    Simon Sexton

    Joined Nov 1, 2017
    508 posts, 224 likes
    Catalina 25 Tall Rig
    Valiant US Watergate Marina, Kemah, TX
    Yeah, the captain of the boat was actually a legendary keelboat racer on the Texas coast, Captain Stone, whose son actually came to work alongside us at Sea Star Base Galveston in 2016. He was a great sailor as well, but unfortunately found himself more at home in the mountains. Anyway, I digress; the mud in the bay is extremely unforgiving, especially to deep-keeled boats. One day the mud will have been completely dredged and out of the way, and the next it'll be piled high by four feet or so. It's just so sad that it costed the Stone his life.
     


  17. capta

    capta

    Joined Jun 4, 2009
    2,896 posts, 991 likes
    Pearson 530
    na Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
    Why in the world did the keel bolts not extend through the frames? Is there a reason for this or is it just poor boat building?
     


    Tom J and agprice22 like this.
  18. Charlie Jones s/v Tehani

    Charlie Jones s/v Tehani

    Joined Mar 1, 2012
    1,635 posts, 585 likes
    1961 Rhodes Meridian 25
    us Texas coast
    some years ago a Catalina 30 lost it's keel sailing offshore Matagorda Island. Apparently it just fell off !!! Boat washed ashore on the beach and had to be cut up, parts salvaged and hull burned- no way to get it off- no roads. I have the mast head, and the ports from that boat. I used two of them in rebuilding my Lindsey 21,

    Sorry-wrong picture. This one instead

    IMGP0494.JPG
     


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  19. Simon Sexton

    Simon Sexton

    Joined Nov 1, 2017
    508 posts, 224 likes
    Catalina 25 Tall Rig
    Valiant US Watergate Marina, Kemah, TX
    [​IMG]
    "One's keel does not simply fall off."
     


  20. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    9,754 posts, 2,795 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    I would not have set foot on the f**ker if I had seen that detail. Let alone go offshore at night.

    The commissioned report found at least 7 serious design and construction flaws, deviating from accepted practice and build minimums. If you wanna read the whole sorry story, here it is. It’s actually an informative read.

    http://assets.system.tamus.edu/file...woods/Cynthia-Woods-Report-SIAD-OGC-FINAL.pdf
     


    BigEasy likes this.

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