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  1. Roger Long

    Roger Long

    Joined Nov 22, 2008
    3,563 posts, 8 likes
    Endeavour 32
    US Portland, Maine
    All the talk of Cuba travel restrictions easing has us thinking about a larger boat so we’ve been walking around the marina dreaming. Looking at an otherwise well found appearing craft, we saw this amazing arrangement of the aft upper and lower intermediate shroud arrangement.

    [​IMG]

    (If anyone’s stomach doesn’t twist into a knot looking at the picture, let me know and I’ll explain.)

    Fortunately, the boat has a “For Sale” sign on it so I don’t have to go through the conscience searching about whether I should say anything or leave a note for the owner. I’m sure the surveyor will spot it. Several times over the years, I’ve pointed things like this out and been rewarded with a Who the hell do you think you are, an expert? look. Now, I just keep my mouth shut.

    Expert? Maybe not but I have designed a number of sailing vessel rigs including these.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    I also did the indeterminate structural analysis of the rig for the sailing school vessel certification of the Rose aka Surprise in “Master and Commander”. That was a fun project since I could change the wind loadings and see how much a traditional square rig flexes and bends underway.

    What’s an expert? Someone who stays silent without a consulting contract, I guess.
     


  2. justsomeguy

    justsomeguy

    Joined Feb 20, 2011
    6,134 posts, 727 likes
    Island Packet 35
    US Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
    Holy crap.
     

    Attached Files:



  3. Alan Gomes

    Alan Gomes

    Joined Nov 22, 2011
    558 posts, 67 likes
    Ericson 26-2
    US San Pedro, CA
    I think I would say something just the same. That's really scary. While a surveyor would have to be blind not to see that, one never knows--not to mention people who buy boats without surveys, etc. You could always just tape an anonymous note to the companionway if you didn't want to be bothered beyond that. At least then if you hear about someone getting injured if that boat is dismasted, you'll know you did what you reasonably could.
     


  4. finding41

    finding41

    Joined Nov 23, 2011
    1,989 posts, 3 likes
    MacGregor 26D
    CA London Ontario Canada
    I'd be calling the # on the for sale sign. You don't have to tell them who you are. Just that you are concerned with there safety and the safety of the people and boats near by.
    I would mention it to the marina too.
     


  5. Sock Puppet

    Sock Puppet

    Joined Aug 14, 2013
    308 posts, 2 likes
    MacGregor 26S
    US High Desert
    Wow...just, wow!
     


  6. rockingham

    rockingham

    Joined Sep 27, 2014
    57 posts, 1 likes
    Montgomery 17
    US driveway
    I second the motion of a note on the companionway hatch, very clearly written in indelible ink and encased in a plastic zip lock bag well attached to the companionway boards, perhaps with 12d bright common nails.
     


  7. FlaTider

    FlaTider

    Joined Feb 25, 2014
    1 posts, 0 likes
    shopping still shopping
    US unknown
    Roger Long, to say I'm a novice is an understatement! ....I am also in the sailboat market, so ...

    Will you please tell me the problem, for my education and perhaps safety?

    tia,
    Stephen
     


  8. justsomeguy

    justsomeguy

    Joined Feb 20, 2011
    6,134 posts, 727 likes
    Island Packet 35
    US Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
    Seeing as how Roger's offline at the moment, allow me.

    There are two plates connected to those toggles, and both plates are to one side of the chainplate.

    Ridin' sidesaddle, as it were.

    If the plates were to straddle the chainplate on both sides, the stresses would be much better distributed.
     


  9. bshock

    bshock

    Joined Jan 18, 2013
    126 posts, 7 likes
    Beneteau 361
    US Sandusky Harbor Marina
    I'm going to "guess" and say the cotter pin should be beefier, and the two plates (or whatever they're called,) should have one on either side of the tang coming out of the deck, so the load is directed straight up in relation to the chainplate below deck.

    At the very least, it appears that pin is about the come out, and is only held on by what looks like a very thin cotter pin.
     


  10. 31seahorse

    31seahorse

    Joined Aug 2, 2005
    803 posts, 92 likes
    Caliber 28
    US Penn Yan, NY (Seneca Lake SP)
    The split rings are easy to put in place, but equally easy to remove. Sometimes by the action of sheets, etc pulling past them. Beefy cotter pins with ends bent away from each other and wrapped with rigging tape would be much more secure.

    The "plates" (I can't think of the proper name) on one side put extra pull on the end of the pin and against that small split ring. Always a good idea to look at the rigging attachments on deck and aloft.

    Are the plates called Tangs?
     


    Last edited: Jan 26, 2015
  11. rockingham

    rockingham

    Joined Sep 27, 2014
    57 posts, 1 likes
    Montgomery 17
    US driveway
    For an important application like this one, definitely a beefy cotter pin in the clevis.
     


  12. Ron20324

    Ron20324

    Joined Jan 22, 2008
    6,022 posts, 502 likes
    Beneteau 323
    US Annapolis MD
    I wonder if the two triangle plates are already out of alignment with the deck fitting. If you put a triangle on each side of the deck fitting, the outer one would bear against the deck fitting. Mayb be the best idea would be to put a triangle on each side for a trial fitting, then maybe have to bend the deck plate to make a straight pull on all pieces.
     


  13. Roger Long

    Roger Long

    Joined Nov 22, 2008
    3,563 posts, 8 likes
    Endeavour 32
    US Portland, Maine
    You bet. I looked down at my side deck a few months ago and saw the split ring for the clevis to my lifelines sitting there. Fortunately, the clevis itself hadn't worked out yet. I still use split rings there in case it is necessary to quickly remove the lines for a MOB or similar emergency. However, I keep a much better eye on them. No rings on rigging pins.

    Pop quiz: Does anyone know the proper way to install cotter pins? Hint: You won't find any tape on my boat.
     


  14. Scott T-Bird

    Scott T-Bird

    Joined Oct 26, 2008
    3,275 posts, 413 likes
    Starwind 27
    US Barnegat, NJ
    Is it just me, or do those four screw heads look really tiny. I can't imagine such small fasteners for a deck-mount chainplate. Hopefully, they are at least fastened to something secure underneath, not just wood screws into the deck.
     


  15. Scott T-Bird

    Scott T-Bird

    Joined Oct 26, 2008
    3,275 posts, 413 likes
    Starwind 27
    US Barnegat, NJ
    or maybe, I'm just not seeing that it is just a cover plate with a tang through the deck ...

    Well, I think I have read that you want to split the pins at just 10 degrees. That still leaves sharp points to catch toes, but I cover with a plastic tube, where the inside diameter of the tube just fits the length of the pins, split this way. With the tubes snuggly fit over the sharp ends, they never ride up over the tang to expose the pins. Plus, I can check on them periodically without removing tape.
     


  16. justsomeguy

    justsomeguy

    Joined Feb 20, 2011
    6,134 posts, 727 likes
    Island Packet 35
    US Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
    I'm betting that's a cover plate, not connected to the chainplate itself.

    At least I would hope that's the case.
     


  17. rockingham

    rockingham

    Joined Sep 27, 2014
    57 posts, 1 likes
    Montgomery 17
    US driveway
    I suspect that those tiny screws hold down an escutcheon plate and the chainplate itself is bolted to a substantial hull member below.
     


  18. woodster

    woodster

    Joined Sep 15, 2009
    6,240 posts, 262 likes
    S2 9.2a
    US Fairhope Al
    pull the cotter pin through the hole and turn one leg back over the clevis pin and cut the other leg of the cotter pin off..or turn them both back one on one side of the clevis pin nd the other on the other side so the tails are pointing to the eye of the cotter and trim the excess off the tails
     


  19. 31seahorse

    31seahorse

    Joined Aug 2, 2005
    803 posts, 92 likes
    Caliber 28
    US Penn Yan, NY (Seneca Lake SP)
    Never did like a Pop Quiz, but here goes my answer.....

    Use a cotter pin long enough to allow the legs to be bent out in opposite directions away from the split and up to the "eye" of the cotter pin. I also put the pin into the hole from the outboard side so the cotter pin is facing in and that will somewhat protect lines and toes from contacting the ends of the cotter pins.
     


  20. Roger Long

    Roger Long

    Joined Nov 22, 2008
    3,563 posts, 8 likes
    Endeavour 32
    US Portland, Maine
    Nope. Never bend the pins hard back around the clevis pin. The sharp bend changes the metal making it brittle and also subject to corrosion which can cause the bent sections to break off and let the pin back out. It doesn't happen often but one dismasting is enough for a lifetime.

    Cut the cotter pins to about 1 1/2 times the diameter of the pin (from under the head loop) and file them smooth. Then bend each leg 30 degrees. The ends will then be inside the edge of most fittings and I've never had a snag or torn toe. There may be some situations where you need tape for chafe protection but tape, in addition to being unsightly, holds moisture and promotes crevice corrosion. Use it only if necessary.

    [​IMG]

     


    Last edited: Jan 27, 2015

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