1. Welcome to the new Cruising Sailors Forum, for experienced sailors and cruisers. 2009-2016 forum archive is now online.

Deep Keels Mean Deep Trouble

Discussion in 'Cruising Sailors' started by Muttondressedaslamb, Oct 3, 2017. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. Muttondressedaslamb

    Muttondressedaslamb

    Joined Nov 24, 2014
    70 posts, 15 likes
    Catalina 310
    US Staten Island
    Just posting this picture as a warning to those contemplating buying larger deep fin keel boats. The vessel pictured broke loose from its mooring after a storm and ran aground outside Staten Island's Great Kills Harbor. The keel snapped off after the tow boat attempted to move it. The bottom line is that these deep keels put tremendous strain on the hull while at the same time, their narrower point of attachment makes them less strong. Unless you are racing, there is a lot to be said for a shallow keel. IMGP3711 (2).JPG
     


  2. Captain Larry-DH

    Captain Larry-DH

    Joined Jun 14, 2010
    797 posts, 438 likes
    Quorning Dragonfly 1200
    US home
    Maybe the thread should be titled "Beware neanderthals operating tow boats who think more power is the answer to everything ".
     


    Mickstr, readerbill, jviss and 5 others like this.
  3. Love and Luck

    Love and Luck

    Joined Sep 25, 2016
    88 posts, 41 likes
    Oday 22
    US Lake Arthur
    not sure what's worse- the boat or the guy wading in Great Kills Harbor without a hazmat suit
     


  4. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    10,452 posts, 3,450 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    More sailors get hit by lightening playing golf each year than keels fall off boats. This is unnecessarily alarmist and not substantiated by fact.
     


    FastOlson, jviss, Gene Neill and 2 others like this.
  5. Muttondressedaslamb

    Muttondressedaslamb

    Joined Nov 24, 2014
    70 posts, 15 likes
    Catalina 310
    US Staten Island
    Well I do agree with you about the power, but as a college anthropology major, I feel that you are not giving Neanderthals enough credit. While they are believed to be an evolutionary side branch of the human family tree, they had a lot going for them. Armed with only spears, stones, and clubs, they hunted the huge Cave Bear and survived conditions that made Alaska look like Antigua. While they looked brutish, they behaved in many ways like us. They buried their dead with some form of ceremony. One aged specimen was too arthritic to even keep up with his fellow hunters, much less attack anything. He also was missing several teeth, making chewing difficult. Nonetheless he was cared for back at camp. Someone may even have chewed his food for him. People who care for their crippled and aged are not brutes. As for the tow boat operator, Google Australopithecus, and perhaps you will get an idea of what he looked like
     


  6. Parsons

    Parsons

    Joined Jul 12, 2011
    776 posts, 339 likes
    Catalina 36
    US Bay City, MI
    I'm just trying to figure out what make of boat this is. The keel stub does seem really small for (I'm guessing) a 30-foot boat. Any reference from the news article, muttondressedaslamb ?

    On the "deep keel" part - I don't race, but I do like going to windward, hence the 6-foot draft. I've gone over mine in some detail, and really doubt that it would snap off in a tow situation before a cleat pulled off the deck. Just saying.
     


    readerbill and jviss like this.
  7. Kings Gambit

    Kings Gambit

    Joined Jul 27, 2011
    3,220 posts, 843 likes
    Bavaria 38E
    US Alamitos Bay
    Only exceeding rare events ever become "News." Total rubbish in this case.
     


  8. pateco

    pateco

    Joined Aug 12, 2014
    2,205 posts, 643 likes
    Hunter 31 (1983)
    US Pompano Beach FL
    While at the USNA in Annapolis, I sailed one season on Semper Fi. (previously named Recluta). She was a 48' Mahogany Frehrs with a deep keel. We had a lot of fun getting her back into shape after she was donated to the sailing program. She was a great boat, and raced very well. The summer after I left, she competed in Block Island Race week. During a race she hit a sandbar that was not on the charts at speed, lost her keel and turtled. I don't know if she was ever returned to sailing condition. Deep keels are great for racing, but you have to be very aware of your sailing environment.
    SemperFi 3.jpg SemperFI 1.jpg SemperFi 2.jpg
     


    RussC likes this.
  9. RussC

    RussC

    Joined Sep 11, 2015
    1,247 posts, 589 likes
    Macgregor 25
    US Oregon lakes
    Wow! that was one beautiful boat!
     


  10. pateco

    pateco

    Joined Aug 12, 2014
    2,205 posts, 643 likes
    Hunter 31 (1983)
    US Pompano Beach FL
    I just looked her up in google. She was repaired and is now owned by a gentleman in Gloucester, MA.

    Wooden Boat Registry- Recluta

    She was built in 1973 in Argentina as an IOR Custom Racer.
     


  11. Skipper

    Skipper

    Joined Oct 9, 2008
    1,684 posts, 319 likes
    Bristol 29.9
    US Dana Point
    I think the headline should begin with "If you sail in shallow waters".
    Which on the West Coast don't exist. Unless you try to use your boat as a surfboard.

    I have to agree with others in that having a deep keel hardly "means" (equals) deep trouble. Best advice is to stay away from the bottom.
    I'd guess frozen hoses and fires have destroyed more sailboats than deep keels.
     


  12. Muttondressedaslamb

    Muttondressedaslamb

    Joined Nov 24, 2014
    70 posts, 15 likes
    Catalina 310
    US Staten Island
    Maybe so, and BTW, more high school football players are killed in bus accidents going to and from the game than on the playing field. Nonetheless, if my son were still a teenager, I would do my best to talk him out of joining the team
     


  13. Muttondressedaslamb

    Muttondressedaslamb

    Joined Nov 24, 2014
    70 posts, 15 likes
    Catalina 310
    US Staten Island
    Ten years ago, you are probably right. Over the past several years, it has gotten much cleaner, though probably doesn't stack up to where you sail. I would rather wade in Lake Arthur, but would rather sail near where I live. The area between Staten Island, South Brooklyn, and North Central NJ, has some of the consistently best sailing conditions on the East Coast. You just have to watch out for shallow areas between South and Midland Beach on Staten Island, and Keeport in NJ
     


    Love and Luck likes this.
  14. markwbird

    markwbird

    Joined Nov 26, 2012
    1,037 posts, 272 likes
    Hunter 34
    US Berkeley
    Yes. Deep keels are very dangerous and usually result in catastrophe. This happens ALL the time.
     


  15. DaveJ

    DaveJ

    Joined Apr 2, 2013
    281 posts, 95 likes
    Catalina 310
    Ca Niagara-on-the-Lake
    I don't know any golfer that has been hit by lightning, and I know quite a few golfers, but last year a 43' sailboat from our club hit a rock that nobody else has hit in recent memory. But then, there are very few boats with 9' keels in our club....
     


  16. pateco

    pateco

    Joined Aug 12, 2014
    2,205 posts, 643 likes
    Hunter 31 (1983)
    US Pompano Beach FL
    I hope you are being sarcastic. Deep keel boats aren't inherently dangerous, they just take more care in navigation and mooring than a shoal keel boat. Rocks reefs and sand bars become more of a threat that needs to be carefully avoided.
     


  17. markwbird

    markwbird

    Joined Nov 26, 2012
    1,037 posts, 272 likes
    Hunter 34
    US Berkeley
    Hmmmmm. Yes. Good insight.
     


  18. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    10,452 posts, 3,450 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    ;^)

    I kind made that up, but after looking - according to NOAA, over the last 20 years, the United States averaged 500 annual lightning strikes to people per year (50 die). If you guess that only 5% are playing golf, that means that 10 keels have to fall of boats each year. Pretty sure that does not happen.
     


  19. DaveJ

    DaveJ

    Joined Apr 2, 2013
    281 posts, 95 likes
    Catalina 310
    Ca Niagara-on-the-Lake
    Since we're quoting statistics.... one in 175 boats in our club lost their keel last year! Also, 92% of statistics are made up by the statistician. :)
    Cheers
     


  20. Charlie Jones s/v Tehani

    Charlie Jones s/v Tehani

    Joined Mar 1, 2012
    1,750 posts, 711 likes
    1961 Rhodes Meridian 25
    us Texas coast
    This port in my previous boat came from a Catalina 30 who's keel fell OFF offshore Matagorda Peninsula. The boat washed ashore and since there was no economical way to refloat, she was stripped of hardware and burned
    new-port.jpg
     




NEW rigid hatch covers
Hatch protection like never before. Tough, secure, installs in seconds.
Too hot? INSTANT BIMINI ESTIMATES
Low prices, custom fit, no-wait estimates
Flexible steel chafe pads
Innovative new product made of flexible, laser cut stainless steel. Must see!
Turn any toilet into a Raritan for a fraction of the cost
The Raritan LBA matches your existing bowl with the pump/plumbing of a PHII or PHC. save!