Yes basically. but it depends on the boats setup. We like to set the vang at that position and ease the sheet (vang sheeting), which does the same thing as lowering the traveler, but it's easier on our boat. You gotta have a strong vang.
Dealing With an Overpowered Situation
- Thread starter Don Guillette
- Start date
Don, I was assuming I would raise the traveller and ease the sheet to gain twist at a similar angle of attack. My concern would be that the upper leach of the main would be a significant contributor to the heel and adding twist would help in this regard.
Here's my take on using the mainsheet vs the traveler. Both work for me but when using the mainsheet (which was my original method until I discovered the versatility of the traveler) you've changed the set of the sail, which you now have to readjust after the gust passes. By using the traveler nothing changes with the set of the sail and all I have to do is return it to its original position and go merrily on my way. Like everyone on the forum, we all have our ways of doing things and a sailor should try all suggestions and use what works for them.
The mainsail is like a big barn door and it harnesses a lot of wind power - try making a turn and see how the boat wants to continue straight. Absolutely, adding twist will de-power the boat but most times you don't have touch the mainsheet. I said most. I'd go with the traveler first and see what happens and then go to the mainsheet. On my boat and singlehanded, if I have to resort to the mainsheet (twist) I'm beginning to think I'm about to get into some serious stuff and better come up with plan B, but that's not everyone -- just me..
Jackdaw, I have always thought the vang would work for this purpose as it has for me inadvertently when I have forgotten to ease it after a downwind run! I had assumed it would help with a German main sheet system with no traveller.
While the traveler does not effect twist per se, it absolutely effects where the twist profile is relative to the overall angle of attack.
;^) very much so!
The other key point here is that you really have to factor in your own boat's controls when thinking about what is best for YOUR boat. BlueJ's controls are set up dinghy style, and the mainsheet, traveler, vang and backstay all come the the mainsheet position(s) on camcleats at either end of the boom-end traveler. Everything is instantly adjustable. Control lines on winches, father away at the cabintop, or other positions dictated by comfort and not performance will effect your personal plan. Its all part of the game!
Wait I'm lost, I thought the boom vang was downwind only? Can we get a bit more on applying the boom vang in this condition of overpowered.
My mainsheet traveler is pin stop and I can adjust in light wind, but not when it is over 10+ so I end up centering it which I know isn't great. If I keep the O'day I plan a Lewmar traveler upgrade this winter.
My mainsheet traveler is pin stop and I can adjust in light wind, but not when it is over 10+ so I end up centering it which I know isn't great. If I keep the O'day I plan a Lewmar traveler upgrade this winter.
No, the vang can be a valuable tool then sailing upwind. Several ways actually, but here we talking about trimming in puffs using a technique call 'vang sheeting'.
To do this you get the boat/main trimmed comfortably with the desired amount of twist, and then set the vang there. Then, when a puff hits, you ease the MAINSHEET, not the traveler. The sheet goes out and the boom wants to rise, but cannot because it is held down by the vang. So it slides to leeward and only widens the Angle of Attack, just like using the traveler would. Great if your traveler is not easy to use. On boats with good travelers, it really comes down to trimmer's choice. Its a good idea to make sure your vang and boom are up to scratch, this really loads it up.
Right. That makes total sense. What I was essentially asking was about changing the angle of attack without changing the twist (as with the traveler), vs. changing the angle of attack where more twist would be induced (as with dumping some mainsheet but not specifically with vang sheeting). So certainly vang sheeting (given an appropriate vang) would do the former, and you have confirmed that this is what you are after, if I'm reading you right.
Correct.
Another point about this, when it comes to easing. Depending on conditions, sometimes easing the main (adding twist) feels better and faster then changing AOA with traveler/vangsheeting. Depends on wind sheer and the like. We've often had races where one feels better on one tack, the the other on the other side!
Excellent, I'll play with my vang now when the wind picks up. It isn't great looking, but I can adjust the line from the cockpit. I assume I need to watch my gooseneck condition and not get to crazy with cranking it down, just enough to help. I also saw this 3:1 as a possible upgrade, I like the integrated cam cleat and longer line.
http://www.drmarine.com/proddetail.asp?prod=DR25-3-1
I've never sailed on a O'day25 so I wonder if a Garhauer Rigid Vang (or any rigid vang) would be appropriate. The rigid vang was the first mod I installed on my C30 followed quickly by replacing the curved track traveler and the pin type fairlead system. Set me back a few $$$ but they were the best sail trim mods I made.
Adding a 2:1 with a solid block and a length of dyneema is an easy way to double the purchase of your vang.
The load is not so much on the goose-neck but on the vang itself, its attachments to the boom, and indeed the boom itself. When vang sheeting the vang is taking most of the mainsail load.
It sure can. How you have your sheet setup, where on the boom, what you use for a vang, etc. can affect how this works, but changing the angle of your sheet can introduce or remove twist.
-Will (Dragonfly)
I said the TRAVELER itself does not effect twist and to focus on your 1st 3 words "it sure can". I'd like you to explain how a devise that moves horizontally and no matter what position you place your vang or boom and whatever else you consider "etc" can make an effect vertically at the top 1/3 of the sail. If you're saying the mainsheet, can effect twist then I agree because the mainsheet is the secondary twist sail trim control -- the boom vang is primary twist control but we're talking about the traveler. Anyway, that's not what you said. You said the traveler can effect twist so explain to me how the traveler effects twist? After you finish with that please explain what you mean by "changing the angle of your sheet" and what does the mainsheet (a separate sail trim control) have to do with the traveler?
Don,
If you pull a traveler to windward, and ease the mainsheet to keep same angle of attack, doesn't that allow the boom to raise (assuming little to no vang pressure) which would create more twist? This is a serious question, so hopefully the tone of curiosity comes through correctly. With the traveler down, the mainsheet would then pull down more on the boom removing twist. I think that is what will was discussing with angle of the mainsheet. The force applied by the mainsheet provides up/down (leech open/close) and in/out (angle of attack) forces on the boom
If you pull a traveler to windward, and ease the mainsheet to keep same angle of attack, doesn't that allow the boom to raise (assuming little to no vang pressure) which would create more twist? This is a serious question, so hopefully the tone of curiosity comes through correctly. With the traveler down, the mainsheet would then pull down more on the boom removing twist. I think that is what will was discussing with angle of the mainsheet. The force applied by the mainsheet provides up/down (leech open/close) and in/out (angle of attack) forces on the boom
Alex is essentially right. Travelers were invented to keep the boom down when the sheet can't from a midship anchor point. By moving the anchor point of your sheet with a traveler, you can pull from a more downward position as the boom swings out and forward. Because of the lateral angle of sheet when the boom is outboard, the leach pulls up on the boom and bellies the sail allowing twist. Moving the sheet forward to mid-boom is one way to maintain downward tension on the boom and, consequently on the leach. Moving the sheet's anchor point more under the boom, with the car on your traveler is another way. Combining the two works better still.
This is all a separate function from the vang. Since vangs pull directly downward on the boom, the traveler's job becomes sort of redundant. However, with newer designs that sail higher up wind, being able to pull your boom to center or above, can only be done with a traveler or some sort of crossed windward preventer.
That is pretty much my understanding of the function of a traveler. I hope this either helps someone else learn something new or encourages posts that teach me something new. Great thread.
-Will (Dragonfly)
This is all a separate function from the vang. Since vangs pull directly downward on the boom, the traveler's job becomes sort of redundant. However, with newer designs that sail higher up wind, being able to pull your boom to center or above, can only be done with a traveler or some sort of crossed windward preventer.
That is pretty much my understanding of the function of a traveler. I hope this either helps someone else learn something new or encourages posts that teach me something new. Great thread.
-Will (Dragonfly)
I have to re think this. Maybe jackdaw can help me out. Let's say I was closehauled with the traveler almost centered and only the twist that the sailmaker built into the sail and I was hit by a gust and to compensate and get the boat on it's feet I decided to drop the traveler and not touch the mainsheet. I'm trying to picture in my mind what would happen to the shape of the sail due to the mainsheet. Actually, since the mainsheet on my boat is attached to a car on the traveler I don't think it would have any effect but I'm not sure. With the curved track traveler I used to have it would have an effect because the traveler car is going downhill on the curve. Maybe the confusion is I'm not taking into account different traveler/mainsheet set ups. If the movement of the traveler caused pressure on the mainsheet it certainly would effect the shape of the sail.
I see the difference (I THINK)......I was discussing traveler movement IN COMBINATION WITH mainsheet, while keeping the same angle of attack. I should probably read the rest of the thread. Moving the traveler alone on my boat closes the leech EVER SO SLIGHTLY since it is flat traveler on the bridgedeck, end of boom.
...so to the subject of this thread; reactionary, or instant adjustments to puffs we are looking for a SINGLE adjustment to a changing condition? For sailing my own boat I absolutely use just the traveler for AOA as first adjustment.
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