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Considering a 79 Hunter 33

Discussion in 'The Cherubini Hunters' started by Pilatus, Dec 2, 2018. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. Pilatus

    Pilatus

    Joined Dec 2, 2018
    19 posts, 3 likes
    Boatless 30
    US SWFL
    I am looking at a 1979 H33 that is in decent shape considering its age. Current owner has had it for decades and has continually maintained it and it shows. There were a couple of things that would be outside normal upkeep that I like to get feedback on.

    One thing I noticed is that water does seem to pool on the cockpit sole towards the cabin step. Is this a "feature" built in by Hunter or is it just something particular to this boat? Conceptually it can be solved by adding another cockpit drain. Of course I'm not as flexible as I was decades ago, so it won't be fun. This is primarily an annoyance, but it would be nice to not step in water before entering the cabin or continually sopping up water.

    Another issue is that the wires to the anchor light/ steaming light don't have continuity. I've attached a picture that shows how the wires seemingly go under the compression post base. I should have taken an image from the other side, but there didn't appear to be a hole that the wires are snaked through. The VHF cable does have a somewhat ragged hole that it passes through. How is the base of the compression post secured? Is it a flange that is glassed in place? It doesn't seem to be bolted to anything. Current owner said that the riggers said the mast should be removed to rewire which makes for a very expensive light fix. If the current wires are pinched by the post base, I doubt they could be used as a messenger to snake new wires. The vhf cable hole could be cleaned up and would have enough room for the light wires possibly. Has any body attempted to do this while at the top of the mast?

    Another question is about the original 2 cyl Yanmar. I don't have a picture of the actual part but it was described a limiter. The part it self looked like a small spring load plunger that apparently pushed on another rod in the fuel delivery system. The plunger end was bent. Apparently the mechanic is having a problem finding a replacement and that it may need to be machined. The part itself is small and simple so machining it shouldn't be a big deal. The question is what caused it to bend? From the picture I'd guess the plunger diam was maybe 3/16 to 1/4 inch diameter and I presume it was steel. That would take one heck of high axial load to bend it. I've asked the owner to send me a picture of the part which hopefully he'll do soon. I realize these details are probably too sketchy for somebody to know which part I'm talking about...but there is always hope.

    Additionally if anybody has suggestions of common problem areas (especially if they are not easily seen) I'd appreciate the input.
    Thanks,
    Greg
     

    Attached Files:



  2. dLj

    dLj

    Joined Mar 23, 2017
    293 posts, 102 likes
    Hunter 30
    US Snug Harbor, Lake Champlain
    I don't specifically know about the 33, but the water pooling where you've described appears to be common on these boats. As far as the wires you've imaged, I'm not understanding your question exactly. That image looks like the base of the mast where the wires come out, it would seem to me. Where they would exit is at the light fixtures. Regarding why the limiter rod is bent - no way to know unless the PO knows something happened.

    Sorry for not so much info...

    dj
     


  3. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    7,325 posts, 2,803 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    @Pilatus - Greg, welcome to the SBO forum. You have posted some good questions. Not being a Hunter I can not guess at the problem or solution.

    Wiring.. You show the way the wires enter the compression post base but not where they reappear. Is there continuity in the area that they disappear and then reappear? If not then you have located the problem. And. You will need to discover a solution. If there is continuity in that area, then you need search further. Where are the lights on the boat? Could the fittings be the issue (that is a common problem). Corrosion of the wire connections exposed to the moisture.

    WET Feet: Some boats have an engineered problem discovered after production and in the field. Raising the deck to get feet out of the water is a fix to a symptom, like a cockpit sponge. The new deck drain is a more permanent solution.
     


  4. Pilatus

    Pilatus

    Joined Dec 2, 2018
    19 posts, 3 likes
    Boatless 30
    US SWFL
    DJ and John,

    Thank you for your comments. Unfortunately my picture isn't worth much in showing the problem. The small pair of black wires at 11:00 and the red/green wires at 10:00 do not enter the compression post through a visible hole. It seems quite probable that there must be a hole or notch in the post below the layer of glass that are not visible. I can't believe that by design those wires would be pinched by the post. Unfortunately I don't think new wires could be pulled by taping to the existing ones and pulling up the mast as those wires seem tight between the post and the fiberglass layer. So part of the question is how does the bottom of the compression post look? Knowing that might tell me if it would be possible to offset the load from the post and move it up enough to feed wires into it (without dropping the mast).
    I don't own the boat so this is just about learning if there is an easy solution that doesn't require the cost associated with dropping the mast. I can always factor the cost of fixing this into any offer I make.

    The engine problem is a bit worrisome, but I'll probably need to speak to the mechanic to better understand the situation. I thought that maybe others with this boat or engine might have encountered a similar situation.

    Thanks again,

    Greg
     


  5. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    7,325 posts, 2,803 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    Greg.
    Since I can not answer the compression post problem as you stated, lets look at associated issues.
    The boat is a 1979. In Florida so I suspect it has been sailied in that climate. Warm sun and salt water. 39 years old. When was the last time the rigging was replaced? I the rigging is original then you need to consider a refit of the wires that hold the mast in place. This is best done with the mast off the boat and in the yard. Rigging wears out. in as little as 10 years if in Equitorial environ. You could have the rigging inspected by a professional rigger to get his opinion. It would be important if you plan, as I suspect, sailing in blue waters of the Caribbean. Turnbuckles corrode, swage fittings rust. Stainless steel wires are not for ever wires. And if the boat has been sailed hard over the years the wire stretches.
    I you need this task done then that would be the time to act not he compression post and make sure it is solid at the base and that all of your wiring is up to your standard.
     


  6. dLj

    dLj

    Joined Mar 23, 2017
    293 posts, 102 likes
    Hunter 30
    US Snug Harbor, Lake Champlain
    Greg,

    If you are looking to buy this boat, I'd definitely have pulling the mast as part of needed work on my list of to-do's. Did you get a survey done by a good boat surveyor? Might be a good idea.

    dj
     


  7. Pilatus

    Pilatus

    Joined Dec 2, 2018
    19 posts, 3 likes
    Boatless 30
    US SWFL
    John,
    the rigging was inspected and partially replaced 2 years ago. All the halyards were replaced at that time as well. The fittings that I could inspect at the deck level looked good, with two having a small amount of rust showing at the top of the swage. I realize that it is only a matter of time before the mast would come down and the more I think about, I should just assume this will be done immediately after purchase to have piece of mind.
    Thank you for your comments.

    Greg
     


  8. Pilatus

    Pilatus

    Joined Dec 2, 2018
    19 posts, 3 likes
    Boatless 30
    US SWFL
    DJ,
    I'm still in preliminary consideration stages. I'd like to see/hear the engine running before making an offer. Any offer would be dependent upon a survey / test sail.
    Greg
     


  9. RoyS

    RoyS

    Joined Jun 3, 2012
    397 posts, 130 likes
    Hunter 33
    US Bay Pointe, Quincy
    I have a 1980 H33 and some bitter experience regarding the compression post. The bottom of the post has a casting exactly the same as the casting on the top of the post. That casting simply sits on the bottom of the bilge encased in fiberglass. That fiberglass may be chipped out to expose the base of the post and the casting. My original compression post had a visible hole above the fiberglass block for the wires to enter. Some prior owner added a copper shunt strap which he fastened to the post with a tapped in bolt. The other end he fastened to one of the keel bolts. This caused great electrolytic damage to the post. See photo of old removed post bottom.
    IMG_0180.JPG
     


  10. RoyS

    RoyS

    Joined Jun 3, 2012
    397 posts, 130 likes
    Hunter 33
    US Bay Pointe, Quincy
    With regard to the cockpit puddle; mine has the same problem, particularly when the fifty gallon fresh water tank is full. That tank is under the v birth and when full upsets the water line by lowering the bow. I have never studied this but there has never been more than about a pint of water in the puddle. That from memory. When the tank is full and the bow is lower, you will notice that the galley stove is also not level. That is really aggravating when frying eggs. Boat still sails well with tank full.
     


  11. Pilatus

    Pilatus

    Joined Dec 2, 2018
    19 posts, 3 likes
    Boatless 30
    US SWFL
    Hi Roy,
    thank you. That picture is very helpful yet scary. The post I looked at only has a hole where the VHF cable goes into it. Was the hole in your post above the fiberglass? How far down into fiberglass "well" is the bottom of the post and casting? The casting at the top on the boat I saw was maybe 1-1 1/4 inches thick. If it is any deeper, then I guess a fare amount of the fiberglass would need to be removed. In the picture I posted the white wire is presumably a grounding wire that goes into a visible caulked hole. Not sure how that is connected to the post but it wouldn't be replaceable without removing the post as far as I can tell.

    I don't know why boat designers assume a part will never need servicing.

    I seriously doubt that the water tank can be removed with a lot of cutting (tank or fiberglass). So I guess that means only boiled eggs!

    The amount of water in the boat cockpit that I saw was probably more like a few quarts. I'm not sure if the water tank was full and that that exacerbated the problem.
    Greg
     


  12. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    7,325 posts, 2,803 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    Greg, Thank you for the info. Good that the rigging was looked at 2 years ago. Was it all replaced or were any changes made? Can you get a full report from the owner? I bought a 1974 boat. I looked at the standing rigging. Some looked newer, some had green corrosion and some looked like it was original. I made the decision that I would pull the mast and replace all the standing rigging. I considered it in my price of the boat. It gave me a known starting point for my rigging. If the boat is worth it having known age of rigging is a value.

    If you have any rust on the swage tops (the area you can see) that would raise a flag on my inspection. Stainless wire rust when it is in water. Water trickles down your stays and enters the swage where it can rust the wire. I would have those places inspected by a rigger if this is a serious purchase opportunity. Or I would decide... I am replacing that wire. Cost will be $500. I’ll lower my offer by $500. (The $500 number is just a made up number. I have no idea what it will cost you in your area and if you are a skilled enough DYI sailor. My mast down total refit mast raised and trim cost $11,000)
     


  13. Pilatus

    Pilatus

    Joined Dec 2, 2018
    19 posts, 3 likes
    Boatless 30
    US SWFL
    Hi John,
    Maybe I can speak with the rigger that did the work/ inspection to understand what still is needed. Please tell me that those Cal 35's come in ketch versions and hence the price tag. I wasn't thinking it would be so much.
    Regards,
    Greg
     


  14. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    7,325 posts, 2,803 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    Prices for rigging are all over the place. You can get a quote from “rigging only” for your stays, but you need to be careful with the measurements. I looked into doing my own job, but I live 250 miles from the boat and there was a lot planned to do so I hired a local guy who is known as the “Mast Whisperer”. It took a long time but I got excellent results. Once the mast was off the boat everything was removed. Had to send the wooden spreaders (that were rotten) to a guy in Californina who took 2.5 months to return a pair of aluminum spreaders. I reconfigured the running rigging to run inside the mast. I stripped and replaced all of the electrical wiring. I installed all the fittings for a “cutter staysail” to be added in the future. I increased the size of all the stays (the original manufacture was know to have undersized the stays for the size and weight of the mast. Since I expect to take the boat out on the ocean it only made sense. Then I looked at the ways to rig a boat and decided on the Hi-Mod fittings for all of the lowers. (Another upgrade)
    It is easy to see project creep. When you have the mast down and your thinking about now and the future, the best time to do the work is now. Installed all new led lights and running rigging (that was the least expensive and prettiest part of the job). As with so much refitting unless you know what your looking at most of the cost you put into the project is not apparent. I know its there and what it does for the boat (like an adjustable backstay) but to the casual observer nada.
     


  15. RoyS

    RoyS

    Joined Jun 3, 2012
    397 posts, 130 likes
    Hunter 33
    US Bay Pointe, Quincy
    The compression post bottom casting is on the very bottom of the bilge. That casting is exactly the same as the one on the top of the compression post. Both are a slip fit. The wire hole on mine was above the fiberglass. If you study the photo that you supplied it appears that there is an additional layer of fiberglass on the top that may have been added later and possibly covered the original wiring hole. I removed the entire fiberglass encasement with a wood chisel and hammer. The post is replaceable if necessary. To remove - Remove mast and set aside. Purchase adjustable lally column in Home Depot for about $70. Chip out fiberglass to expose bottom of compression post. In my case the fiberglass encasement was not difficult to separate from the bilge bottom and sides, it was not chemically bonded to these surfaces. Unbolt mast shoe from deck. Slightly raise (distort) cabin roof about 1/4" using the adjustable lally column as a jack to free post. Measure post and call Metals Depot (find on line) and order exact replacement length of Aluminum Structural Tubing. Paint, drill new post to suit. Reinstall post as original with new bolts and old mast base shoe. Using West System Epoxy cast a new block of fiberglass around the new post and old base casting. Reinstall mast. Of course, at this time you should take care of your mast wiring.
     


    jssailem likes this.
  16. Pilatus

    Pilatus

    Joined Dec 2, 2018
    19 posts, 3 likes
    Boatless 30
    US SWFL
    Hi Roy,
    Thank you for the detailed process. On the bright side I already own an adjustable column support, but that hardly makes the job cheaper!

    Regards,

    Greg
     


  17. Pilatus

    Pilatus

    Joined Dec 2, 2018
    19 posts, 3 likes
    Boatless 30
    US SWFL
    Hi John,
    clearly a bit more than replacing the stays type job.
    I'm a bit bummed that the DIY yards are more than an hour from me, but 250 miles would be impossible to get anything done in a reasonable amount of time.
    If I may ask, what was the rational to just doing the lowers in the Hi-Mod rigging?

    Greg
     


  18. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    7,325 posts, 2,803 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    Very good question. One factor was cost. The HiMod fittings are more expensive than the swage.

    The concern for rust and breakdown on stays is the sitting of water on the wire/fittings. A properly swaged fitting hanging downward should not experience water intrusion into the swage. So the fitting should retain it’s strength for a long time. When you flip the fitting upside down now you have a space where water can get into the fitting and sit there agains the stainless wire. In time this works against you. The HiMod does not suffer from that water capture problem.
    If you are in a remote location, and the lower swage fails (as they sometimes do) with the HiMod you can cut the wire, refit the fitting to the shorter wire, then fashion a link to the deck say a long toggle. Your back in business till you reach a place to do further repairs.

    So, I am hoping that I can sail into this remote locations, not to test this theory, but to have the experience. And I have at least a way to solve a problem should it occur. Crazy right.....
     


  19. Pilatus

    Pilatus

    Joined Dec 2, 2018
    19 posts, 3 likes
    Boatless 30
    US SWFL
    John,
    I suspected it might be a field service issue and sure is less crazy than trying to weave cordage out of coconut fibers.
    Thanks,
    Greg
     


  20. Pilatus

    Pilatus

    Joined Dec 2, 2018
    19 posts, 3 likes
    Boatless 30
    US SWFL
    The owner was kind enough to send me a picture of the bent limiter which is below. I must say that I have a new appreciation of how much force a governor can exert. Likewise it is baffling why the limiter wasn't designed to resist such a force. I'll ask in another forum if anybody has ever seen something like this.
    Greg
     

    Attached Files: