Coach-roof vs Companionway Mainsheet traveler location—which is best for single-handing?

[GregL564]

Folks,

When single-handing a boat say, 27’-33’, how much more difficult is it when the mainsheet traveler is across the coach-roof, rather than the companionway? I’m thinking about the next boat, and I often single-hand, so wondering if mainsheet traveler location should be a criterion. Or whether other things (i.e. autopilot, mainsheet led back to the edge of the coachroof) offset any disadvantages of having the mainsheet traveler farther away from the helmsman. Thoughts?
Best,

Greg

 

[Michael Davis]

I've always preferred a traveller on the coach roof. However our last boat had it on the companion way and was tiller steered. Very convenient for single handing but I always felt it was in the way. With a wheel I think it would be better on a Samson Post or a traveller in front of the wheel (again in the way). A good autopilot will make any arrangement work better.

 

[Stu Jackson]

A good autopilot will make any arrangement work better.

That's the answer.

Those of us who have stopped being slaves behind the wheel have learned that as far as the traveler is concerned, it doesn't matter. I only spend time behind the wheel around docks or with the wind behind me when I'm w-n-w in heavy wind. We have coach roof, I would find anything else intrusive.

 

[FastOlson]

Our previous Niagara 26 had the traveler mounted across the cockpit seats, and being tiller-steered was extremely easy to single hand. Also, keep in mind that whenever you take inexperienced guests out for a sail you are 'single handing' also.
Our current boat for the last 20 years has the traveler on a bridge deck. What with a wheel, it's a bit far from the steering position, but with the factory Harken traveler and ball bearing cam cleat I can flick the sheet in and out of the cleat from behind the wheel when I am sailing alone. House top travelers are handier for entertaining at the dockside and selling boats to newbies at winter boat shows......, but the force on the sheet goes up by magnitudes and the usual and required housetop winch makes trimming a Lot more difficult.
Choices and options, as the saying goes.
And, YMMV.

 

[jssailem]

Michael,
I am working on this process. I have the traveler set in the seat in front of the companion way. Single handed I move in front of the wheel to make adjustments. Just converted the 2-1 rig to a 6-1 system. 6-1 is untested, but should address the issues I had with handling the sail in 20knt winds. The location while not perfect is convenient (can grab the main-sheet as a hand hold getting out of the cabin). It keeps the boom attachments near the end of the boom improving Main sail management and reducing the strain that coach top rigs put on the boom attachment points. Companion way traveler does impact the type and size of a dodger you can put on the boat. Also need to consider the size of the cockpit. Mine is considered spacious by friends. Room for 4 people with out kicking each other. My friends cockpit is small, stand on seats to get past wheel. Room for 2 or 3 if racing and everyone is agile, getting to the winch while the main needs attention can cause conflicts. So you have size, desired coverings (dodger), spacing of winches, and type of traveler all influencing the issues of location. All of which leads to compromise. The nature of a sail boat.

 

[Bill Roosa]

What you want is kinda a non starter. The geometry of the sheet and boom connection determines where the travler ends up. If the boom can sustain a mid boom load then it can be more forward. If it was engineered for an end boom connection you are kinda stuck with where the boom ends. if you are asking which "kind" of boat you should buy I'd go for a coach roof traveler. The companionway location is always in the way even if you use the AP all the time.

 

[weinie]

any traveler or sheet you can reach without leaving the helm is a plus.

 

[Jackdaw]

For most people, what they have now is best. And thats what they will rightly say is best. However.

If you look at at boats DESIGNED for single handing:
1) They will have boom-end sheeting brought down to a boat width traveler
2) Be tiller steered.
3) Have a non-overlapping (jib) fractional rig

This is not a discussion point. They are all now like this. The closer they are to the hand of someone who might be helming, the better.

This allows one person to control the boat sitting in place, on the high side. On hand on the tiller, one hand on the mainsheet or traveler. High side because weight is important when there is not a lot of it on the boat.

As other note, most of this time the boat will be steering its self. Nobody self-steers while single handed for very long. But even then, if you are actively trimmming or resting, you want to be on the high side.

Every existing boat is diffferent, so you have to approach this sensibly with regard to modifications. But thats the ideal setup.

 

[Michael Davis]

JS writes compromise is the nature of a sailboat. I think that means you get the one that makes you happiest and live with the things you don't like!

 

[GorillaToast]

I moved mine to the companionway for ease of use while singlehanding. The control lines are easily within reach on the cockpit seats. The only complaint is from my dog who hasn't yet figured out how to go over it to get down the steps so she has to squeeze under.

 

[Jackdaw]

The way God intended man to single-hand. ;^)

 

[Jackdaw]

I moved mine to the companionway for ease of use while singlehanding. The control lines are easily within reach on the cockpit seats. The only complaint is from my dog who hasn't yet figured out how to go over it to get down the steps so she has to squeeze under. View attachment 133562

Good mod! Its a sailboat, not a dog house!

 

[rgranger]

The way God intended man to single-hand. ;^)

View attachment 133563

I'll give you Saint Brendan but if it had been God you would have a beer in one hand and a cigar in the other.

I would have added a babe on your lab but then you wouldn't be single handing.....

(I had to work real hard for that one)

 

[Jackdaw]

I'll give you Saint Brendan but if it had been God you would have a beer in one hand and a cigar in the other.

I would have added a babe on your lab but then you wouldn't be single handing.....

(I had to work real hard for that one)

See that Blue Performance sheet bag by my knee? Ask @cb32863 what thats really for.

And yes, Jodi counts as double handing!

 

[cb32863]

See that Blue Performance sheet bag by my knee? Ask @cb32863 what thats really for.

And yes, Jodi counts as double handing!

Holds beers very well!

 

[jssailem]

Would think the ice draining out the bottom would puddle cold water on the seat. Especially on a port tack. Maybe that is how Jackdaw keeps the crew awake...

 

[weinie]

For most people, what they have now is best. And thats what they will rightly say is best. However.

If you look at at boats DESIGNED for single handing:
1) They will have boom-end sheeting brought down to a boat width traveler
2) Be tiller steered.
3) Have a non-overlapping (jib) fractional rig

This is not a discussion point. They are all now like this. The closer they are to the hand of someone who might be helming, the better.

This allows one person to control the boat sitting in place, on the high side. On hand on the tiller, one hand on the mainsheet or traveler. High side because weight is important when there is not a lot of it on the boat.

As other note, most of this time the boat will be steering its self. Nobody self-steers while single handed for very long. But even then, if you are actively trimmming or resting, you want to be on the high side.

Every existing boat is diffferent, so you have to approach this sensibly with regard to modifications. But thats the ideal setup.

I think you are 100% correct, but keep in mind that some modern boats have certain have things like twin wheels and german mainsheeting, not to mention the elimination of the traveler which allow a helmsman to sail pretty darn well without running around the cockpit like a banshee. This seems to be a general trend among some of the European cruising boat builders who understand having a dedicated crew is often hard to get.

 

[Jackdaw]

I think you are 100% correct, but keep in mind that some modern boats have certain have things like twin wheels and german mainsheeting, not to mention the elimination of the traveler which allow a helmsman to sail pretty darn well without running around the cockpit like a banshee. This seems to be a general trend among some of the European cruising boat builders who understand having a dedicated crew is often hard to get.

TOTALLY agree. But usually those things too are a comprise to convenience and ease of cruising comfort. Which I totally get. But even Jeanneau when they buckle down and make a full-on single/double handed boat go to the formula. Non-overlapper. Tiller. Mainsheet on boom-end boat width traveler.

Jeanneau Sunfast 3600.

I'd own one of these in a second.

 

[rgranger]

@Jackdaw
Is non-overlapping just for ease of tacking? Or am I missing something else about sail trim? You have mentioned that a few times and I was not following. Occasionally my genoa sheets will snag something on the way around but most of the time it is not an issue so I would not count non-overlapping as a big solo-sailing plus.

 

[Jackdaw]

@Jackdaw
Is non-overlapping just for ease of tacking? Or am I missing something else about sail trim? You have mentioned that a few times and I was not following. Occasionally my genoa sheets will snag something on the way around but most of the time it is not an issue so I would not count non-overlapping as a big solo-sailing plus.

@rgranger : GREAT question!

In the past boats (both masthead and fractionally rigged) got most of their power out of their genoas. Masthead boats for sure more than fractional ones. But these headsails, with LPs of 135-155, where big and dominated the sail plan. There was a bunch of reason for this, a lot of it due to legacy and old rating rules.

Now. most new boats are fractional, with a very wide shroud base. They can do this because the headsail is designed to be no bigger than 110% (non-overlapping the main) can can be trimmed inside the shrouds. See my pic above. The wide shroud base is structurally better for the boat because there is much less compression loading on the mast and rigging.

To do this, the main is larger, and more powerful, and often the mast is set back farther, allowing the jib to bigger as well. On most modern boats, the main and the jib are often about the same sail area (within 10%). On BlueJ the main is 210 sqr feet and the jib is 190.

With this setup, the jib can be flown as-is in breeze up to 20kts plus, and you reef the main after flattening in around 20kts, depending on crew.

These rigs are very weatherly, and also easy to tack. If you go with a 95%LP jib, they can tack themselves with little loss of power. Even on a regular jib, the clew only moves about 3 feet, so tacking is super simple and easy as it does not have to go around the shrouds.

Single handing is made much easier because going upwind, you leave the jib alone and just ease the main in puffs. Even crewed we do than when racing.