Cleating (the main) at the mast

[ScubaGuy2]

We are a little confused about cleating off the main on the mast. There seems to be two ways this could be done, but neither seems to be perfect. Both "options" are created by the fact we have the tail end of the lines running though the center of the cleat, with a stopper knot in the end.

It's a little hard to explain, but here we go:

1. Pull halyard straight down to raise the main. Then while holding some tension on the line, pull the tail end of the line. Keep pulling the tail end, working all the line though the center of the cleat. Then cleat off with the first "turn" of the cleat actually going though the center and around the bottom. This option works and makes a neat cleat, but takes some doing pulling the entire length of the tail end of the halyard with one hand.

2. Pull halyard straight down to raise the main. When fully raised, put first turn urnder cleat as normal. Except you have the tail of the line under the cleat hitch. Faster, easier, uglier.

If our halyards were not running though the cleat with a stopper it would be obvious what to do. But it seems very likely I would be lowering the mast to retrieve the end of the halyard. Mr. Murphy and I are not exactly good friends.

What am I missing? So, how do you do it? What's options 3 - 10?


Obviously leading lines aft would solve this problem, but it isn't an option in the middle of sailing season.

 

[Joe]

Not only is that an untidy way to manage your halyards, it's actually very unsafe. You need to have the line coiled and up off the deck so no one trips over it.... and you need to be able to lower the sail in a hurry if you get in trouble.... watch this video:

 

[kloudie1]

Option 2 .. an easier to handle operation.. It can be tidied up by tucking the loose stuff under the tight part of the halyard above the cleat.. Make a pretty coil of the looped end then pull the little slacked bitter end thru the coil and secure it under the tight halyard .. in other words, use the little loose tail from the center of the cleat as a toggle to hang the coiled halyard.

 

[Joe]

Do not use the center part of the cleat to secure the line. Inconvenient and unnecessary..... and very unseamanlike.

 

[JRT]

I don't use the center of a cleat in a halyard, it seems to cause more problems then it solves.

 

[rpludwig]

Scuba, that's a very good video and the RIGHT way to do it, also good on coiling other lines. NO center of the cleat use on anything ever IMO, and no stopper knot there for sure!

 

[kloudie1]

Dunno.. stopper knot and use of center cleat hole won't let the halyard fly up the mast.. not a bad deal.

 

[weinie]

Why would the halyard fly up the mast unless the line was way too short, the sail was down, and the shackle not fastened to either the head of the sail or the end of the boom or a lifeline or something? Usually it's the other end of the line that gets sky'd.
Also, are you using dock line for the halyard? Probably should use something less stretchy.

 

[Leeward Rail]

NO center of the cleat use on anything ever IMO, and no stopper knot for sure!

Exactly.

I suspect it's the wrong line, if it is too short to drop all the way and still have some extra line.
Are you sure it's the correct line ?

Changing it out to a longer, low stretch, one is a couple minute job, by using the original line as a messenger.

 

[rpludwig]

Exactly.

I suspect it's the wrong line, if it is too short to drop all the way and still have some extra line.
Are you sure it's the correct line ?

Changing it out to a longer one is a couple minute job, by using the original line as a messenger.

Scuba...if you order new line, give thought to longer length...at some point you may wish to run lines aft to the cockpit, but that's a topic/discussion for a different thread! (and wait for the WM 40% off sail on rope, they do that often)...

 

[pateco]

@ScubaGuy2 ,

If you want to still have the stopper, why not add one of these slightly below and offset to your cleat on the mast just to retain the tail of your halyard and avoid Murphy's wrath.

RONSTAN Nylon Bull's-Eye Fairlead $1.99

 

[Leeward Rail]

Not all rope is the same. Sometimes you want the line to stretch. A snubber on anchor chain for example. Sometime you want as little stretch as possible.. like a halyard.

Using different colour rope for each line is a good idea.

I can't find the link I've usually emailed to people about different rope for lines, but here's a good one:
https://www.sailrite.com/PDF/Rope Selection Recommendations.pdf

@$tingy Sailor has a good post about using different colours for lines. Everyone has their preference, but colour coding them it makes it simple for newbies or guests on board.
https://stingysailor.com/2014/04/19/running-rigging-color-scheme-2/

If you decide to get a new halyard, the best option is to contact the pros here at SBO: https://shop.sailboatowners.com/cs/index.php?r=running_rigging

But, I suspect that with all that line you got with the boat, that there is something suitable already in a locker someplace

 

[Jacktar]

Do not run the halyards thru the cleat, and when you have sail raised just coil up halyard and use last loop through coil and over top of cleat to store. Keeps it neat and allows rapid dropping of either sail when needed. Also always keep control of bitter end to control the drop anyway. See pic for under sail appearance.

 

[jwing]

I don't care if 100 or 1000 people advise against using the center of the cleat, I am still going to do so, exactly as you describe, ScubaGuy2, and for the exact same reason. I have had to take my mast down because some crazy circumstance sent a halyard up into the rigging or right on through the block and down to the deck.

I used your Option 1 at first, finishing it as shown in the video that Joe attached in #2. However, I typically sail solo or with non-competent crew, so I've switched to Option 2 because it is faster and I can get back to the tiller sooner. I finish that similar to kloudie1's description in #2, except that I coil the excess line and tuck it in between the mast and the halyard going up. I haven't had a problem releasing from either configuration.

 

[Joe]

If you absolutely must stick the line through the center, stick the bitter end through and tie the knot after you've hoisted the sail.... that will keep it from flying away because you let go of it... but for crying out loud, don't thread the entire halyard through the center as if that's going to hold the line better than a cleat knot.. that makes no sense. When the sail is down, and you're clipping the halyard to the end of the boom, there should still be plenty of line left for a few coils on the mast cleat. If not.... your halyard is too short. The chance of losing the halyard is much greater with the shackle end going aloft than the bitter end.

There's nothing wrong with coiling the line, after it's properly cleated, and stuffing it between the mast and halyard above the cleat. On small boats you can get away with it... but larger boats with longer and thicker line, or those with internal halyards.... the "tidy" way is much more practical.

 

[victorhoisington]

So the only downside I can see to threading through the cleat, is the inability to quickly lower the sail when needed. AS long as you practice dropping sail a few times as if your life depended on it and are comfortable with how it works you should be fine.

However, I will echo the call to not do it as a matter of course, all of my halyards on our Islander 41 ketch are mast tended and none use the center cleat option. I do make sure I always have control of both ends and do have plenty of tail on the halyard so I can keep it anchored while moving the shackle from its anchor point to the sail. As long as the halyard doesn't come loose when on the sail it generally will not fly up the mast since both ends balance each other close enough. I'm looking at adding rope clutches on my mast to reduce the need for cleats, 2 double/triple clutches on each side of the mast should handle main, spare on one side and jib, staysail and spinnaker on the other.

Everyone has their comfort levels and so I fully understand using the cleats as described and if it works, I certainly wouldn't object. I know some will claim its not proper or correct and while certainly entitled to their opinions on their boats, I always defer to the captain, His boat his ways.

Oh, and if your line is what I think it is, you've got the right line.

Fair winds,

Victor
Islander "Freeport" 41

 

[jwing]

BTW: I noticed that you are using a Figure-8 stopper knot. Probably OK in the situation under discussion. However, I have had Figure-8 knots at the ends of jib sheets come untied all by themselves. When you need a stopper is the exact worst time to not have a stopper! I switched to the double-overhand knot as taught by the local sailing instructor; never a stopper problem since then.

 

[weinie]

Do not run the halyards thru the cleat, and when you have sail raised just coil up halyard and use last loop through coil and over top of cleat to store. Keeps it neat and allows rapid dropping of either sail when needed. Also always keep control of bitter end to control the drop anyway. See pic for under sail appearance.View attachment 152865

Are those bed sheets or sails?

 

[weinie]

What is this big thing about having to drop a sail in an instant anyway?

 

[pclarksurf]

What is this big thing about having to drop a sail in an instant anyway?

Thunderstorms, down drafts, man overboard, potential knock downs, emergencies in general-- have to agree that the ability to drop the main in a flat second is an excellent thing even if you never need it.