CD Ullman Mainsail & Genoa

Sep 15, 2016
790
Catalina 22 Minnesota
Just a couple of quick questions for the group. I am considering replacing sails while CD is having their 15% off sale. I have looked on the forum quite a bit and it sounds like they make a good high quality sail that is better than stock. However I have also read somewhere that a full batten main strikes the backstay in a gybe or tack. Is this True and if so how is this corrected? I am looking at their 2+2 batten sail for better shape but I sure don't want to deal with it striking any of the rigging.

My second question is in regards to the Genoa. Their hank on Genoa is made of 4.4 oz fabric which is some of the lightest weight I have seen for my boat. Does this sail stretch too much and should I request a heavier weight cloth? The roller furling genoas are all made of the same 5.6 oz fabric that the main and the smaller jibs are and according to the rep from CD he is not exactly sure why the weight is less for the hank on other than they consider it a light air sail. However I want to be able to fly it up to 15 kts max in a club racing format without blowing it out. Over that and I will size down to my 110. Thanks in advance for the responses.
 
Jun 8, 2004
2,841
Catalina 320 Dana Point
I replaced a factory full batten with an Ullman 2+2 on a Catalina 270 and there was no difference in the amount of roach on the sails, I think you'd have to pay extra to get one that hit the backstay.
A furling jib may be heavier under the premise that it may be left up and partially furled by a cruising sailor in higher winds.
 
Sep 15, 2016
790
Catalina 22 Minnesota
Thanks Ted for the information. I am glad to hear that the Roach did not change but is you leech the same as your original sail or do they make it larger? Also I have some concern with the 4.4 oz hank on jib weight. It is by far the lightest cloth weight I was quoted after talking to various vendors. So if there is anyone who has a CD hank on Genoa please let me know what you think.
 
Sep 15, 2016
790
Catalina 22 Minnesota
I have spoken with JudyB and you are both correct she is a wealth of knowledge. Her company which makes Hyde sails come very highly recommended by many but then again so do the sails from CD which is having a 15% off sale making the sails actually one of the more cost effective options hence my question. I was just hoping there were a few around that had ordered the Hank on Genoa and the Main who could vouch for whether or not the Main hits the back stay and the overall durability of the Jib in the lighter fabric. Its hard to compare apples to apples as CD does not specify a name brand cloth for their sails but rather has a cloth made specifically for them through Ullman. Looks like Ill have to try and do a bit more digging before making the final decision.

@Gene Neill your Rolly Tasker Jib is that the 4oz fabric National sail still sales? If so based on a few of your videos it looks like you encounter some strong wind sailing down south so how do you like it? Do you feel its too light or too thin at times?
 

AaronD

.
Aug 10, 2014
723
Catalina 22 9874 Newberg, OR / Olympia, WA
+1 on @DrJudyB. I can't say enough about how good she was to work with.

2 comments about pricing:
--Hyde Sails Direct prices for add-ons like a 2nd reef point were much lower (and they offered options that CD / Ullman didn't).
--You're in the market for 2 sails; Hyde gave me a discount for buying 2 at once. So you might find the total price competitive with CD.

This was my only sail buying experience, so I don't have anything to compare to, but I was sure happy working with HSD.
 
Jun 25, 2004
1,108
Corsair F24 Mk1 003 San Francisco Bay, CA
@Judy B would be a great help for that type of info.
I was going to say @DrJudyB ... maybe they're the same person?? :)
NO. @ Judy B is NOT the same person as me. It's an imposter.

My user name is @DrJudyB

The other "@ Judy B" is an imposter, using my name and picture without my permission.

That's creepy. I have notified the moderators.

Signed,
The Real Judy Blumhorst
 
Last edited:
Oct 4, 2010
159
76 Catalina 22 Three Mile Harbor, East Hampton, NY
I was just hoping there were a few around that had ordered the Hank on Genoa and the Main who could vouch for whether or not the Main hits the back stay and the overall durability of the Jib in the lighter fabric.
I went with the Ullman 2+2 Main and the 110 Hank on jib after reviewing some great information here. The ultimate reason for choosing Ullman was someone's recommendation. I very much considered a local name brand loft but they were almost twice the price with no explanation of why. I have used them for 2 seasons now and never had an issue with the back stay on my 1976 C22. Can't answer the fabric question. Richie
 
Dec 8, 2016
1
Macgregor 26x Green Turtle Cay, Bahamas
I got tagged on this because my Macgregor 26x is named the Judy B. My web site is macgregor26xcruiser.com I have no other info on this interesting coincidence except the origin of my relationship with this name. "Honey, I bought a boat and I named after you."
 

jviss

.
Feb 5, 2004
6,745
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
My advice is to not get too hung up on the sale price. Prices are negotiable, especially at this time of year!

I bought a main for a Catalina 36 last year from FX Sails. Got a discount for being a Catalina 36 Association member, got an education from Bill, the proprietor, and got a super sail with name-brand sailcloth and all the features I wanted for a super price. U.S. made. Free shipping.

Cloth was Challenge High-Aspect, High-Modulus 7.3 oz. dacron.

Call around. Negotiate!
 
Sep 30, 2013
3,538
1988 Catalina 22 North Florida
@Gene Neill your Rolly Tasker Jib is that the 4oz fabric National sail still sales? If so based on a few of your videos it looks like you encounter some strong wind sailing down south so how do you like it? Do you feel its too light or too thin at times?
Nope, our Rolly Tasker main and 110 jib came from thesailwarehouse.com, back in 2013. The jib was described as "coastal" 5.5oz Dacron. I was really new at the time, and had no idea what I was even buying. But I've been totally happy with it so far.

I notice CD's 110 is 5.6oz, and described as "offshore". I guess those words can mean whatever the seller wants them to! :biggrin:
 

Ward H

.
Nov 7, 2011
3,645
Catalina 30 Mk II Barnegat, NJ
@DrJudyB
I'm sorry but it sounds like you are asking people on the internet about their experiences/sail material from CD so you can get the 15% discount but the person who will answer all your questions and help make sure you get the sail size you want/fits your boat/cloth weight weight/ etc. you don't want deal with because you might lose the 15% discount?
I think the answer is take a chance and save the 15% or go with someone who is there and will walk you through the entire process and make sure you get what you need. To me that was worth any 15% savings. Actually by buying both main and jib I did save something like 10%.
Hyde Sails Direct would be and was my choice. No regrets.
 
Sep 15, 2016
790
Catalina 22 Minnesota
@DrJudyB
I'm sorry but it sounds like you are asking people on the internet about their experiences/sail material from CD so you can get the 15% discount but the person who will answer all your questions and help make sure you get the sail size you want/fits your boat/cloth weight weight/ etc. you don't want deal with because you might lose the 15% discount?
I was in no way attempting to pick on any sail vendor. Hyde sails and @DrJudyB have a wealth of information out there and in personally talking with her on the phone she was indeed helpful and her reputation is well deserved.
My question was in regards to CD as they also have a good reputation and support the Catalina 22 association which I like. Each sail loft I have spoken with has a great reputation including Mack sails, Gus sails, and Bartlett sails. And each as you would expect has their preferences in sail construction based on their experiences. It is not just the 15% but it's the almost $1000 difference in price between the different lofts for similar material. I am not afraid to pay for quality but I am also not afraid to look around at quality lofts with good reputations and compare them also. This thread was simply started to discuss CD Ullman sails for an area that I could not find discussed elsewhere. I am just trying to gain knowledge that is all. Thank you for all whom have contributed. You have been helpful.
 
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Likes: Gene Neill
Jun 25, 2004
1,108
Corsair F24 Mk1 003 San Francisco Bay, CA
Just a couple of quick questions for the group. I am considering replacing sails while CD is having their 15% off sale. I have looked on the forum quite a bit and it sounds like they make a good high quality sail that is better than stock. However I have also read somewhere that a full batten main strikes the backstay in a gybe or tack. Is this True and if so how is this corrected? I am looking at their 2+2 batten sail for better shape but I sure don't want to deal with it striking any of the rigging.

My second question is in regards to the Genoa. Their hank on Genoa is made of 4.4 oz fabric which is some of the lightest weight I have seen for my boat. Does this sail stretch too much and should I request a heavier weight cloth? The roller furling genoas are all made of the same 5.6 oz fabric that the main and the smaller jibs are and according to the rep from CD he is not exactly sure why the weight is less for the hank on other than they consider it a light air sail. However I want to be able to fly it up to 15 kts max in a club racing format without blowing it out. Over that and I will size down to my 110. Thanks in advance for the responses.
To LarkShark, the original poster who started this thread by asking a couple of questions:

However I have also read somewhere that a full batten main strikes the backstay in a gybe or tack. Is this True and if so how is this corrected?
Nope, a sail with one or two full battens doesn't have to hit the backstay on a Catalina 22 or any other boat. The size of the roach is determined by the designer and the customer during the design phase. Sails designed for cruisers usually stay inside the backstay. Sails designed for racers have more sail area and often overlap the backstay.

At Hyde Sails Direct, for example, we offer cruising mainssails with a roach either comfortably inside the backstay, or almost/barely touching the back stay. Cruising mainsails have less total area than racing sails and are easier to tack and gybe.

Very competitive club racers who compete sail in handicap or one design races want the biggest, most powerful mainsail allowed under the rating rules. They don't care about the annoyance or abrasion caused by hitting the backstay. Serious racers order mainssails that have a big roach that overlaps the backstay. A race sail that overlaps the backstay is typically is 6% - 10% bigger than a cruising sail. At Hyde Sails, we charge a little more for race sails because the require more sailcloth.

Their hank on Genoa is made of 4.4 oz fabric which is some of the lightest weight I have seen for my boat. Does this sail stretch too much and should I request a heavier weight cloth? The roller furling genoas are all made of the same 5.6 oz fabric that the main and the smaller jibs are and according to the rep from CD he is not exactly sure why the weight is less for the hank on other than they consider it a light air sail. However I want to be able to fly it up to 15 kts max in a club racing format without blowing it out.
The short answer to the cloth weight question is this:
In general, a sail built for use in stronger strength winds needs to be made of stronger cloth. A hank on 150% is meant to be used in light to light-medium winds. A hank-on 135% genoa is for use in medium to medium+ winds. As the wind range gets stronger, the cloth has to get stronger too.

Furling headsail sails are usually intended for use across a wider wind range than a hank on sails, so furling sails are often built of stronger cloth than a similarly sized hank on headsail. A furling/reefing 150% sail that will be used in medium winds will need to be made of the same strength cloth as a 135 used in medium winds.

One important thing to remember is that "strong cloth" means it doesn't stretch very much. Stretch depends more on the weave style and the quality of the yarns than it does on weight. If you use a higher quality cloth, it will stretch less and hold its shape longer than a lower quality cloth of the same weight. If fact, very low stretch (expensive) sails generally weigh less than "entry level" sail.

If you are comparing cost of "apples to apples", you need to compare similar styles of cloth, not weight.

Every name-brand manufacturer makes a "value line" dacron that's a good basic cruising cloth, in addition to premium and super premium dacrons.

The following are "value lines" which are for cruising: Supercruise dacron from Contender, and Performance Cruise dacron from Challenge.

C-Breeze is Dimension Polyant's lowest tier dacron, but it much less stretchy and will hold its shape longer than the other two. It is more more expensive as well.

(There are a many more dacron sailcloths than the ones I've mentioned above, but comparison start getting more complicated as you consider the premium and super premium weaves. The premium cloths are engineered specifically for different technical requirments, such as high vs low aspect, highest UV resistance, etc, That is beyond the scope of this discussion. Suffice it to say that sail cloth is highly engineered, structural material! )
 

bushav

.
Aug 18, 2015
170
Catalina 22 Panama City, FL
I went with Judy and was pleased with the result on main and genoa. Get ready to measure your rig extensively before placing the order. It seems overkill but in the end you get a great fitting sail. Also, place the order during your winter down time. It took a while to get the sail as its custom made and comes from overseas. My mistake was for $20 I could have gotten a second reefing point. Instead I had it installed the following season for $350 at the local loft! My bad.

Lane