Catalina 380 Structural Cracking

[taylort100]

We just had a Catalina 380 given a prepurchase survey. We found a significant crack right through the stringer (actually the rib) that is immediately forward of the batteries. The crack is dead center, running up, across the top, and down the other side (in other words, right through). With the boat sitting on its keel, the stringer gets pushed up so that the floor panel is about 3/8" high and rocks from side to side.

It looks as if the boat either was grounded or was dropped. There is zero evidence of grounding or hitting anything. I've seen some other postings talking about bilge cracks in the 380 due to hard lowering from hoists onto blocks that may have been misplaced. Question - is this just a very rare example, or is there a weakness in this area?

We are shopping for a 380, but this survey makes us nervous.

 

[Joe Diver]

What is the advice of the surveyor?

Personally, to me what you describe is a serious structural problem. Considering the number of boats on the market, I'd pass. I'd also never buy a wrecked car, even repaired...but that's just me.

 

[Stu Jackson]

You might want to check with the C380 International Association to see if this is a known issue with these boats. Most likely www.c380.org

 

[taylort100]

Thanks for the 2 replies. We are passing on this boat - surveyors and our own advice. But we are curious if its a known issue or weakness. Its not mentioned on the C380 org site at all. Maybe after my posting everyones checking that stringer!
But, now that we've passed on this boat we have to find another. We can't venture into 6 figures but we can close on the sale of a 380 very quickly, in the high 5 figures

 

[taylort100]

We've just got back from viewing a 1998 380. Interestingly, the rear stringer is not visible in this year - the internal pan or liner has been redesigned and totally covers that rear stringer. We did see some cracks in the bilge immediately aft of the compression post step - each one about 2 - 3 inches long and 1/16 inch wide. Given that this is somewhat centered over the keel, I'm not concerned yet. Lets see what the surveyor says in another week when he sees it. Rest of the boat was great.

 

[taylort100]

Well, the bilge area cracks were not structural or very deep and can easily be repaired. We are buying this boat. But, there is a build issue with these boats. This one also had cracking of the pan near the batteries. On investigation, Catalina are putting a wad of folded up, resin saturated glass mat between the stringer and the "sub floor". Its roughly where the keel ends. When the boat is on the hard, the hull flexes, pushes up the stringer (really the structural grid), which pushes that wad of mat into the sub floor liner and causes it to crack. If the boat is set down too hard, then the grid can crack at that point. As it is, the grid flexes slightly. Lesson, in my opinion is to make sure 380s are set down very carefully. Also, I would not have a block at the rear of the keel pivoting the keel back and up.

 

[taylort100]

Just delivered our new to us 380 back to our home port. I'll post on this seperately.

 

[Joe Diver]

Congrats!!

Post up lot's of pics...love to see them.....

 

[jrowan]

Seems like the bigger the boat, the more chances there are for structural cracks. Larger areas of hull that may or may not be well supported, hidden by a lot of fancy looking liners & furniture. I've heard about a lot of cracking problems with the bigger new Tartan's as well. Some of these lead to sinkings. I think the Catalina's are tuffer than newer Tartan's: the 400 has had sever cracking through the hull, forward of the keel. Much worse than a cracked stringer, or crazing in the cabin sole. The problem is that people expect to take big boats out in BIG waves & weather, & they should hold up to them. I'd expect a lot more for a boat costing over 100k!

 

[taylort100]

Thanks. There are really a couple of issues going on.
The well designed boat that gets grounded by an owner or dropped by a yard. Then there's the boat with a structural liner (many brands such as catalina, Beneteau etc) that make issues hard/impossible to find. Then, there are the non-structural liners that hold the cabinetry, the berths etc. but that hide issues. Also, there's the crack that a surveyor feels is structural and should be walked away from versus the crack that is deemed cosmetic.
We walked away from a Cat 380 because both the surveyor and myself felt that a crack through a "stringer" portion of the liner was very serious and unlikely to be fixed correctly. We then bought another Cat 380 that we just love. But, it has some 1/16 or slightly larger cracks just aft of the compression post in the bilge. Both the surveyor and I felt that these cracks were not deep and were due to shrinkage in the gel coat, or shrinkage in the outer glass layers but not structural. Also, they are not long and don't seem to be aligned with how you would expect stresses to be working. So, in the coming winter, I'll be grinding them wider, agressively sanding the area, filling the cracks, and then glassing over with 2 - 3 layes of fabric. Places were water can get in are never good.

 

[jrowan]

Its tuff to find a bigger boat that is more than a few years old that doesn't have a crack or chip or two, if its been sailed. Some of the boats that look prefect just haven't been out there getting pounded by wind & waves enough yet. Fine crazing cracks have never bothered me & are endemic to production sailboats. But beware of a boat thats been grounded so hard that astringer is cracked or seperated, or hull cracks running all the way through. That said we all have C 30's thtat are famous for their Catalina smiles!