Catalina 38 Questions

JK_Boston_Catalina310 · Apr 6, 2015

I don't own a C38 but do own a Catalina (C310), so I will try to help where I can.

SloopDogg said:
Hello all,

I sold my Viking 33 last fall and now I'm looking at a Catalina 38 and I have a few questions. I've joined the email list but I awaiting moderator approval to post.

1. Is the entire hull really solid fiberglass?

2. If so how thick? Vikings are over an inch of solid layup.

What year C38? Sounds like it might be a pre-1989 if you are worried about some of the other issues below.

But regardless of the exact age of this boat it sounds like you are trying to compare an early 1970s boat to at least a 1980s boat. There were huge advances in materials technology in that period of time. Fiberglass, even hand laid never mind vacuum bagged, had huge advances in strength to weight/thickness. So comparing the thickness of two hulls built a decade apart doesn't tell you much. You need to look at strength but there is not a ton of data out there on that.

To bottom line it a little, if you are worried about crashing into rocks or reefs, get a steel or aluminum hull. If you want to break ice, get a steel or aluminum hull. If you are going to sail the boat with reasonably decent skills, this issue is widely over blown in internet groups. People cross oceans in very thin fiberglass hulls these days. I wouldn't worry about hull strength unless there is some delamination or other structural issue.

As far as the hull make up, I believe that all Catalina hulls are solid glass below the waterline and that the decks are marine plywood sandwich construction. But I am not certain on 1970s to early 1980s.

3. Is the mast step replacement a big deal? Seems tedious but solid layup deems to be the answer with some drains an conduits into the bilge.

If you do the work yourself it's a relatively cheap fix. You can get a replacement block from Catalina direct for like $200. Then you have to take out the old one, cleanup the area and do some fiberglass work.

A friend had one done at Kingman's Marine (not too far from you) for $2600 on his Catalina 30 and they did a good job. That cost included stepping the mast and all.

4.it needs a lot of updating and exterior teak replacement. is there a source for pre-made replacement teak?

Spend some time on Catalina Direct. They have a lot of items like this and can make your life easy. If you don't seen something you need, call them. They don't list everything they have on their website.

Two of the best parts of owning a Catalina are the large owner groups of helpful people and Catalina Direct.

5. has anyone added a lexan lens to the forward hatch? How costly would that be?

6. What can I expect to pay for a new roller furler and head sail.

Again, see above.

7. any tips for cleaning the rubbed interior teak to lighten it back up again? I really like the look of rubbed teak rather than the shiny varnish. It probably easier to maintain as well.

Most Catalinas are teak veneer over a lightweight core. The veneer is typically oiled pre-1985, varnished with a satin until 2001, varnished with a semi-gloss 2001 up. You can get the actual material used by Catalina on Catalina Direct.

8. would anyone have any recommendations for really reputable yard that does exceptional restoration work in the Southern Massachusetts Rhode Island area?

I had some work done at the Brewer's in Warwick, RI. Very minor, just a cutlass bearing change but their price was reasonable and the work was done well.

As I said above, a friend had work done at Kingman's Marine and they seemed to do a good job.

But I do all my own work so I can't give you too much help.

If I was going to let anyone in that area touch my boat it would be Paul Dennis. He was the former production manager for Tillotson-Pearson and now has his own shop. His shop is called the Warren River Boatworks. I have a couple of friends who have worked for him and I have seen the quality of work his shop puts out. Top knotch.

9. Is a 26 HP 3 cylinder Universal Diesel adequate aux power for a boat of this displacement?

From what I have heard from C36 and C38 owners, the prop has a lot to do with answering this questions. But by today's standards it is underpowered and can't cruise at hull speed under power.

Plenty of them seem to be out there doing just fine. So unless you are in a very strong river as a home port it should make that much of a difference.

Good luck and fair winds,

Jesse

Stu Jackson · Apr 6, 2015

Jesse's info is spot on.

Except for: From what I have heard from C36 and C38 owners, the prop has a lot to do with answering this questions. But by today's standards it is underpowered and can't cruise at hull speed under power.

We have an M25 engine in our C34. It's just fine. We sail in lots of current with no issues whatsoever. The M25 is 21 hp, not 26.

This has a lot of important engine information, too:

Critical Upgrades http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5078.0.html

Our C34 website has tons of engine information so you don't have to reinvent the wheel. http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Diesel_Engine

In fact, the systems on our boats are essentially identical. The C38 Association is somewhat less active than other Catalina one-design associations, so get the information where it is available.

Solstice · Apr 6, 2015

SloopDogg said:
Hi Stu and Jesse, Thanks for the responses. It is an early 80s C38 which is a 70s IOR design. So it has more in common with the early 70s Viking than you might think. I do like doing most of the work myself and I rehabbed the Viking myself only to find she just didn't have the kind of accommodation we could live with. Sailing her was a blast though! I ask about the hull only for informational purposes. I know there are plenty of cored hulls out there sailing all over the place and the new boat with their this fiberglass hulls strengthened by an egg crate style grid held in place with special adhesives and a liner on top of that. I do feel that a solid fiberglass layup is less vulnerable to inexperienced POs having done some DIY without proper installation research. Like just popping in a new thru hull fitting for their new this or that... LOL The reason I need to have some work done for me is that my wife will divorce me if she loses me to another restoration project! She brings it up all the time! I don't really want to get a divorce... I really like my wife! LOL

In addition to Jesse and Stu's comments, I believe the 38 you are considering is actually an S&S design done for Catalina. I may be off on the years though. If it is it is a fabulous sailing boat!

Solstice · Apr 6, 2015

SloopDogg said:
It is indeed the C38 with the hull design by S&S. Thats what caught my interest and it is a beautiful boat in person, beautiful lines and pretty roomy inside. It is like the viking only with the room for 6'-0" frame. I was always stooping and bumping my head and crouching. Washing a dish and using the head were very uncomfortable events.

I see you are in MA. Does it happen to have a light blue hull? If so, she is a beautiful boat. I saw that particular boat in Salem a few seasons ago...good luck!

JK_Boston_Catalina310 · Apr 6, 2015

SloopDogg said:
Hi Stu and Jesse,

Thanks for the responses.

It is an early 80s C38 which is a 70s IOR design. So it has more in common with the early 70s Viking than you might think.

I do like doing most of the work myself and I rehabbed the Viking myself only to find she just didn't have the kind of accommodation we could live with. Sailing her was a blast though! I ask about the hull only for informational purposes. I know there are plenty of cored hulls out there sailing all over the place and the new boat with their thin fiberglass hulls strengthened by an egg crate style grid held in place with special adhesives and a liner on top of that. I do feel that a solid fiberglass layup is less vulnerable to inexperienced POs having done some DIY without proper installation research. Like just popping in a new thru hull fitting for their new this or that... LOL

The reason I need to have some work done for me is that my wife will divorce me if she loses me to another restoration project! She brings it up all the time! I don't really want to get a divorce... I really like my wife! LOL

I see one on Yachtworld in Newport for $59K. It looks nice but if that is the one you are into it seems pricey.

For the layout, it seems like the C34 or C36 have much more usable space with less length.

But then again, I don't really like the 70s IOR look. Just not my thing.

There is one in Hingham for 1/2 the price. It needs an interior job but still you could do that for less than $30K.

Good luck,

Jesse

Stu Jackson · Apr 6, 2015

Jesse's right about the interior spacial differences. However, those boats, as we all know, were designed and built much, much later.

The C38's lines and gear are great, and the "traditional" interior makes pretty good use of the available space. The boat reportedly sails like a witch!

Unfortunately, the Catalina Yachts Archive brochure link for the C38 is incorrectly linked to a Morgan 38 from 1993. Darn.

The systems, as I mentioned are all identical to the later boats, probably exactly the same as my 1986. I'm keepin' my old glass-fused electrical panel. Like Confederate money!

Pat Royce, in his excellent book Sailing Illustrated (still available) did a four or six page writeup in detail of the Catalina 38. Very impressive, and worth finding the book if even to just check those few pages out. Actually worth buying the book, it's a great small pocket reference for all sorts of boating things.

Stu Jackson · Apr 6, 2015

PS - Whatever you do, and whichever C38 you buy, please, please, please read and maybe even printout the Critical Upgrades link I provided. It will be a great checklist for you and/or the surveyor. They're called Critical, uhm, well, just because....

Allez Yukon · Apr 6, 2015

As I understand it,the Catalina 38 originally started life as the Yankee 38 which was an S & S design. Frank Butler bought the rights and the hull moulds and redesigned the deck and cabin to the Catalina 38. Lynn and Larry Pardey have written about it on their blog as one of the best options for an affordable blue water boat. But, the most valuable attribute of a used boat are the previous owners.

Stu Jackson · Apr 6, 2015

SloopDogg said:
Stu, do you suggest

1 printing the thread of critical upgrades

2 or the wiki page?

Sloop,

1. Yes. There's a Print button on somewhere on the screen, upper right tab.

2 the wiki link is to essentially a Table of Contents of what's in the engine portion of the wiki. You could print it out as "checklist" if you've read the contents behind the table, and/or print certain sections out. Depends on what you feel you need and perhaps what you feel would be helpful to share with your surveyor to make the whole process more meaningful. That's what I did, a little of both.

Good luck. Less luck involved now that you're armed with knowledge and experience.

Oh, and have fun! :dance:

Phantomsailor · Apr 7, 2015

SloopDogg,

I owned C-38 #297, an 1987 model from 1997 to 2002. I really loved that boat and as Stu says the boat sailed like a witch especially upwind. Once trimmed the boat would go to weather, hands off the wheel, as long as desired. To your questions:

1. Is the entire hull really solid fiberglass? Yes, solid fiberglass from the toe rail to the keel. Not sure of the thickness but I did have some cut-outs for instrument thru-hulls that were over an inch think.

2. If so how thick? Vikings are over an inch of solid layup.
I think the layup varied from about 1/2 inch in the topsides to over an inch around the keel. The deck is set on an inward turning flange and through bolted through the perforated toe rail.

3. Is the mast step replacement a big deal? Seems tedious but solid layup deems to be the answer with some drains an conduits into the bilge. The mast step is wood covered in glass.
I never had any issues with the step so I cannot address replacing the step.

4.it needs a lot of updating and exterior teak replacement. is there a source for pre-made replacement teak? I can only tell you to check with Catalina Direct.

5. has anyone added a lexan lens to the forward hatch? How costly would that be? Yes, replacement aycrilic hatches for the C-38 are sold on this site and cost $695. I replaced the forward hatch on my C-38 and it turned the vee-berth into a light and airy space rather than a dark cave.

6. What can I expect to pay for a new roller furler and head sail.
I had a Harken furler on my C-38. The Harken ESP Unit 2 sells at Defender for $2448. This site may sell them too. I would expect to pay about $3000 for a 130% genoa for a C-38

7. any tips for cleaning the rubbed interior teak to lighten it back up again? I really like the look of rubbed teak rather than the shiny varnish. It probably easier to maintain as well.
The teak on our C-38 was stained a darker shade of teak by the factory. We used Murphy's Oil Soap to clean and then followed that with a simple teak oil.

8. would anyone have any recommendations for really reputable yard that does exceptional restoration work in the Southern Massachusetts Rhode Island area?
I am a left coaster so I'll leave this question for others.

9. Is a 26 HP 3 cylinder Universal Diesel adequate aux power for a boat of this displacement?
Our boat had a Universal 5424 diesel coupled a Martec 2 blade folding prop. We never had an issue with reaching hull speed except in extremely windy and choppy conditions. I sailed the boat in SF Bay and we have some serious wind in the summer.

I did go online and look at the 38 in Hingham and it looks OK in the pictures. I am sure you'll have a survey done before purchasing the boat. We did new upholsterey for the interior and new canvas and dodger. We also added a latex foam mattress for the v-berth. We lived aboard our C-38 for 5 years before buying our C-42. I still miss the 38 sometimes. Take Stu's advice regarding critical upgrades/fixes especially the ammeter and alternator bracket upgrades.