I don't want to start a thread going but I had to share this with the list. I was talking to my wife's cousin for the first time who owns a Hunter 34 on Lake Erie. He knows of my boat. The first words he said were "We would love to get a Catalina, it would be a real improvement over the Hunter." I had him repeat his statement. I always here Hunter owners badmouth the Catalina. This was a refreshing change.
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Yes I agree 
Yes, I just had to put my 2 cents worth in as well, especially after reading your cousin is from Lake Erie. I was born and raised in Michigan and learned to sail on Lake Erie in S.E. Michigan. My first boat was an 8' dignhy, but then went to a Hunter, from a MacGregor and then to a Catalina, and I have to say it definitely was a step up. Sometimes I just think it's the snobbery rather than objective view. Then again, it is I suppose all in what you want in a sailing vessel. I believe there isn't better value for the money like a Catalina. Whether you want to cruise or race or both ! Smiling Big Time Dave LaPere
Yes, I just had to put my 2 cents worth in as well, especially after reading your cousin is from Lake Erie. I was born and raised in Michigan and learned to sail on Lake Erie in S.E. Michigan. My first boat was an 8' dignhy, but then went to a Hunter, from a MacGregor and then to a Catalina, and I have to say it definitely was a step up. Sometimes I just think it's the snobbery rather than objective view. Then again, it is I suppose all in what you want in a sailing vessel. I believe there isn't better value for the money like a Catalina. Whether you want to cruise or race or both ! Smiling Big Time
Dave LaPereOh no here comes the storm :^)
Yes, I would agree also. But what type of Hunter did he have, was it older. I would really rather have a Catalina if it was an older one. I think Hunter went through a bad period before. But I can't see how any Hunter owner could *really* badmouth Catalina's. I will give Hunter a little credit, it seems that the quality has been turned up a little in the last year or 2. (Still can't compare to a Catalina) Hunter is the type of sailboat ex-motorboaters, moving to be sailors, tend to buy.
Yes, I would agree also. But what type of Hunter did he have, was it older. I would really rather have a Catalina if it was an older one. I think Hunter went through a bad period before. But I can't see how any Hunter owner could *really* badmouth Catalina's. I will give Hunter a little credit, it seems that the quality has been turned up a little in the last year or 2. (Still can't compare to a Catalina) Hunter is the type of sailboat ex-motorboaters, moving to be sailors, tend to buy.
since the gauntlet has been thrown
I'll say that both boats have their strengths and weaknesses. I've taken many extended trips on a '99 Hunter 410 lately and I do like that boat. They are very fast and the interior layout is hard to beat. I do prefer the Catalina exterior styling however and the lack of an arch is a big plus in my book. The Catalina's do tend to be less expensive for the same size boat so we could talk about good value for the bucks. I visited the Hunter factory in Alachua, Fl. and saw some things that concerned me. The hull to deck attachment joint is 5200 adhesive and stainless screws, not bolts. The stern joint is frequently underwater during motoring and many owners complain about water seeping into the aft storage space. I think this is a function of the joining process. My friend has also had to replace the refrigeration water pump 10 times (the boat is only 1 year old). That system should be completely re-designed. I hope my friends on the Hunter Owners Web don't read this :>) Jeff
I'll say that both boats have their strengths and weaknesses. I've taken many extended trips on a '99 Hunter 410 lately and I do like that boat. They are very fast and the interior layout is hard to beat. I do prefer the Catalina exterior styling however and the lack of an arch is a big plus in my book. The Catalina's do tend to be less expensive for the same size boat so we could talk about good value for the bucks. I visited the Hunter factory in Alachua, Fl. and saw some things that concerned me. The hull to deck attachment joint is 5200 adhesive and stainless screws, not bolts. The stern joint is frequently underwater during motoring and many owners complain about water seeping into the aft storage space. I think this is a function of the joining process. My friend has also had to replace the refrigeration water pump 10 times (the boat is only 1 year old). That system should be completely re-designed. I hope my friends on the Hunter Owners Web don't read this :>) Jeff
Why are you suprised?
I have sailed on hunters up to the 29.5 and would never own one after sailing a catalina. Of course I am talking about an older catalina that has thick hull and good rigging. The new hunters in the local rental fleet don't hold up so well in the usual summer winds up to 25 knots around here. Whenever we see a hunter without a mast we joke about a hunter in it's natural state! The ones I sailed on had almost no sail controls, tiny grab rails, no traveler or a small one at most, tiny winches, etc. You can't sail downwind so well since the main cant go out far enough without hitting the swept back spreaders (no backstay). I would fear flying a spinnaker with no backstay. From my experience hunters have a shiny hull with a great interior, while catalinas have good rigging and an ok interior. Of course the latest catalinas look like floating RVs inside and the rigging is also not so great so maybe the market is into flashy appearances instead of solid sailing vessels? To be honest I would not want a hunter ever and will never own a catalina newer than the 80s. Richard
I have sailed on hunters up to the 29.5 and would never own one after sailing a catalina. Of course I am talking about an older catalina that has thick hull and good rigging. The new hunters in the local rental fleet don't hold up so well in the usual summer winds up to 25 knots around here. Whenever we see a hunter without a mast we joke about a hunter in it's natural state! The ones I sailed on had almost no sail controls, tiny grab rails, no traveler or a small one at most, tiny winches, etc. You can't sail downwind so well since the main cant go out far enough without hitting the swept back spreaders (no backstay). I would fear flying a spinnaker with no backstay. From my experience hunters have a shiny hull with a great interior, while catalinas have good rigging and an ok interior. Of course the latest catalinas look like floating RVs inside and the rigging is also not so great so maybe the market is into flashy appearances instead of solid sailing vessels? To be honest I would not want a hunter ever and will never own a catalina newer than the 80s. Richard
Interesting
Your wife's cousin's comments are interesting. Personally, I think it's a little sad that he isn't happy with his boat. What's particularly interesting is his opinion that Catalinas are *that* much better than Hunters. Different boats sail differently and perhaps the model he has doesn't sail as well as another Catalina (or Hunter, for that matter). Well, whatever his opinions, I think everyone's responses have been honest (in their opinions) and, so far, not hateful. Thanks for not creating turmoil!! LaDonna
Your wife's cousin's comments are interesting. Personally, I think it's a little sad that he isn't happy with his boat. What's particularly interesting is his opinion that Catalinas are *that* much better than Hunters. Different boats sail differently and perhaps the model he has doesn't sail as well as another Catalina (or Hunter, for that matter). Well, whatever his opinions, I think everyone's responses have been honest (in their opinions) and, so far, not hateful. Thanks for not creating turmoil!!
LaDonnaRichard I would have to disagree on the new
Catalina's. As far as structurally I think they are VERY sound & are solid sailing vessel. As you noted the rigging is alot beefier than the Hunters ever were & the solid hull layup add a lot more to the displacement of a Cat (at the cost of weight - so the boat is a little slower in light air).......And this helps alot as far as thier handling in heavy winds and seas. I feel the motion and handling are great in 20+ knot winds. So I don't know about what 'newer' Catalina's you were talking -- maybe the very smaller boats which I don't have any experience with. But the newer Catalina I own, seems to be much better than what what you would imply. Plus they have the highest rating from CE which is an OCEAN Rating ( Designed for extended voyages where conditions may exceed wind force 8 (Beaufort scale) scale) and significant wave heights of 4 m and above, and vessels largely self-sufficient .) The other ratings are OFF-SHORE, INSHORE,& SHELTERED WATERS Take a look here at the description and requirements http://europa.eu.int/comm/dg03/directs/dg3d/d5/reccraft/guide2/craftap2.htm Also how do you come up with this statement "Of course the latest catalinas ....... the rigging is also not so great"....I find the rigging to be extreemly rugged & engineered conservatively (at the cost of weight aloft , though) ---- I have never heard of any dismastings (at least on the larger boats)....if there is any design that could beefier and more conservative it would be the rudder----but then the sailing characteristics would suffer which very few people would tolerate unless they were totally 100% Blue water cruisers. ps -- what's wrong with nice amenities in the newer Catalina's down below they did not sacrifice sailing charachteristics (or looks) because of it --like the hunters that have way too much freeboard and windage just to have a roomier inside -- like I said - built for a motorboater
Catalina's. As far as structurally I think they are VERY sound & are solid sailing vessel. As you noted the rigging is alot beefier than the Hunters ever were & the solid hull layup add a lot more to the displacement of a Cat (at the cost of weight - so the boat is a little slower in light air).......And this helps alot as far as thier handling in heavy winds and seas. I feel the motion and handling are great in 20+ knot winds. So I don't know about what 'newer' Catalina's you were talking -- maybe the very smaller boats which I don't have any experience with. But the newer Catalina I own, seems to be much better than what what you would imply. Plus they have the highest rating from CE which is an OCEAN Rating ( Designed for extended voyages where conditions may exceed wind force 8 (Beaufort scale) scale) and significant wave heights of 4 m and above, and vessels largely self-sufficient .) The other ratings are OFF-SHORE, INSHORE,& SHELTERED WATERS Take a look here at the description and requirements http://europa.eu.int/comm/dg03/directs/dg3d/d5/reccraft/guide2/craftap2.htm Also how do you come up with this statement "Of course the latest catalinas ....... the rigging is also not so great"....I find the rigging to be extreemly rugged & engineered conservatively (at the cost of weight aloft , though) ---- I have never heard of any dismastings (at least on the larger boats)....if there is any design that could beefier and more conservative it would be the rudder----but then the sailing characteristics would suffer which very few people would tolerate unless they were totally 100% Blue water cruisers. ps -- what's wrong with nice amenities in the newer Catalina's down below they did not sacrifice sailing charachteristics (or looks) because of it --like the hunters that have way too much freeboard and windage just to have a roomier inside -- like I said - built for a motorboater
Let me say this about that....
I have owned 3 Catalinas..30, 36,and a 42. They were all good boats. They sailed well, and had great layouts for what they were, and were a good value for the dollars spent. That said, I now own a Hunter 460. It sails well, and is layed out well and it too is built to CE offshore standards.The fit and finish of the Hunter IMHO is superior to the Catalinas. They are both production boats, and both are good value for the dollar. Which one is better?? I don't know...you decide. Would I buy another Catalina? Yes. Would I buy another Hunter? Also Yes. I think it's pretty much a toss up. It depends on what you want in a boat.
I have owned 3 Catalinas..30, 36,and a 42. They were all good boats. They sailed well, and had great layouts for what they were, and were a good value for the dollars spent. That said, I now own a Hunter 460. It sails well, and is layed out well and it too is built to CE offshore standards.The fit and finish of the Hunter IMHO is superior to the Catalinas. They are both production boats, and both are good value for the dollar. Which one is better?? I don't know...you decide. Would I buy another Catalina? Yes. Would I buy another Hunter? Also Yes. I think it's pretty much a toss up. It depends on what you want in a boat.
True confession, I have Hunter 460 envy...
Mark , thanks for being such a gentleman over here on COW (sorry Phil). I will admit that I really love the 460 especially when I saw it blow by a Catalina 42 and a Beneteau 411 with little or no effort. Going to the stainless arch was a great idea and that boat sails beautifully. I think the competition between the big 3 production builders has really improved the quality of all of the boats which helps all of us. I am a loyal Catalina owner but I would like to see them go to bronze through-hull fittings, factory installed inverters, and interior lay-outs designed like the Hunters. Anyway, we all need to defend ourselves from the frequent bashings we recieve from the Cruising World BB.
Mark , thanks for being such a gentleman over here on COW (sorry Phil). I will admit that I really love the 460 especially when I saw it blow by a Catalina 42 and a Beneteau 411 with little or no effort. Going to the stainless arch was a great idea and that boat sails beautifully. I think the competition between the big 3 production builders has really improved the quality of all of the boats which helps all of us. I am a loyal Catalina owner but I would like to see them go to bronze through-hull fittings, factory installed inverters, and interior lay-outs designed like the Hunters. Anyway, we all need to defend ourselves from the frequent bashings we recieve from the Cruising World BB.
Best sailboat ever made?
Hunters and Catalinas are excellent production boats overall. The earlier model Hunters had their share of problems which now appear to be history. The Island Packets, Pacific Seacrafts and other upscale boats are even better tho' more costly. But I'd personally vote for the Westsail 32 as the best sailboat ever made. Read The Perfect Storm and aftermath accounts of the Westsail 32 that was actually abandoned offshore in the middle of the hurricane yet survived with nominal damage to sail again another day!
Hunters and Catalinas are excellent production boats overall. The earlier model Hunters had their share of problems which now appear to be history. The Island Packets, Pacific Seacrafts and other upscale boats are even better tho' more costly. But I'd personally vote for the Westsail 32 as the best sailboat ever made. Read The Perfect Storm and aftermath accounts of the Westsail 32 that was actually abandoned offshore in the middle of the hurricane yet survived with nominal damage to sail again another day!
Hunter vs. Cat
Our first was a 78 cat 25, then a 98 Hunter 260, now a cat 310. I will let the fact that we had the Hunter for 24 months speak for itself.
Our first was a 78 cat 25, then a 98 Hunter 260, now a cat 310. I will let the fact that we had the Hunter for 24 months speak for itself.
Westsail 32 - Built like a Tank..
But sails like one too ;-) ......Though if all hell was breaking loose, it's one of the boats I'd pick to be on.. Read about the 'real' account. Hollywood and author (Junger) of "The Perfect Storm" does a disservice to the seamanship of the Captain. http://world.std.com/~kent/satori/
But sails like one too ;-) ......Though if all hell was breaking loose, it's one of the boats I'd pick to be on.. Read about the 'real' account. Hollywood and author (Junger) of "The Perfect Storm" does a disservice to the seamanship of the Captain. http://world.std.com/~kent/satori/
Comparing Apples to Oranges
People want to compare Hunters and Benniteaus to Catalinas because they cost about the same. I think Catalinas are in a class by themselves above the H and B's. I see a lot of posts skirting the issue by saying - well they aren't IP's or other heavy duty blue water boats. Well to me the point is Catalinas are Much closer to those big buck heavy and stable cruisers than H or B's. Just look at the specs and you will see boat for boat the Catalinas are heavier and almost allways have a higher Ballast/Displacement ratio than the H and B's. Also the extra hull weight is not in decorations it is in solid glass hulls down low where you want it. If you want to stay where it's protected and win light air races go with the lightwieghts. If you want to get beat up less by big water or just aggravating chop go with the heavyweights. Stan "Christy Leigh" c320 #656
People want to compare Hunters and Benniteaus to Catalinas because they cost about the same. I think Catalinas are in a class by themselves above the H and B's. I see a lot of posts skirting the issue by saying - well they aren't IP's or other heavy duty blue water boats. Well to me the point is Catalinas are Much closer to those big buck heavy and stable cruisers than H or B's. Just look at the specs and you will see boat for boat the Catalinas are heavier and almost allways have a higher Ballast/Displacement ratio than the H and B's. Also the extra hull weight is not in decorations it is in solid glass hulls down low where you want it. If you want to stay where it's protected and win light air races go with the lightwieghts. If you want to get beat up less by big water or just aggravating chop go with the heavyweights. Stan "Christy Leigh" c320 #656
Catalina over Hunters and Beneteaus
I have to agree with Stan (and Richard, but I'm not allowed to argue with him). We chartered a 31 foot 1991 Beneteau in Desolation Sound this year, and had to cross over the Straits of Georgia in a 25 knot "gale". On Rich's 1983 Cat 30, it would have been a dream, with the second reef optional. We sail in like conditions on the bay all the time. On the Beneteau, with its massive displacement of 7100 lbs, it was more like dinghy sailing. In the 3 hour crossing I couldn't let go of the mainsheet or we would round up. The boat only had one reef point, but we found we needed to reef in 15 knots (which is perfect full sail weather for the Catalina). I think I would have even preferred the 1982 Catalina 27 that Rich owned before the 30 in those conditions (even though I would have been wetter). The interior of the Beneteau was much nicer than the older Catalina but is probably on par with the current equivalent models. With the rigging debate, the rigging on many of the current Hunters and Catalinas (with the exception of the +40 feet versions) all come to one chain plate on either side. I consider this a huge weakness. Give me a chain plate per shroud any day.
I have to agree with Stan (and Richard, but I'm not allowed to argue with him). We chartered a 31 foot 1991 Beneteau in Desolation Sound this year, and had to cross over the Straits of Georgia in a 25 knot "gale". On Rich's 1983 Cat 30, it would have been a dream, with the second reef optional. We sail in like conditions on the bay all the time. On the Beneteau, with its massive displacement of 7100 lbs, it was more like dinghy sailing. In the 3 hour crossing I couldn't let go of the mainsheet or we would round up. The boat only had one reef point, but we found we needed to reef in 15 knots (which is perfect full sail weather for the Catalina). I think I would have even preferred the 1982 Catalina 27 that Rich owned before the 30 in those conditions (even though I would have been wetter). The interior of the Beneteau was much nicer than the older Catalina but is probably on par with the current equivalent models. With the rigging debate, the rigging on many of the current Hunters and Catalinas (with the exception of the +40 feet versions) all come to one chain plate on either side. I consider this a huge weakness. Give me a chain plate per shroud any day.
westsail
Having sailed two days on a westsail 32 in 10 to 15 foot seas and winds up to 30 Knots I have to agree this is the boat I want in a storm! If I were getting ready for a bluewater passage I would certainly consider one. I have had my old catalina 27 out in 10 foot seas and winds around 30 to 35 knots. I was damn scared, but survived fine. I also added a second reef point after that. On my slightly newer catalina 30 I added the second reef almost instantly. Catalina has made the hulls thinner on their newer boats. I am not sure if this is a cost cutting measure or just some new technology that allows them to get away with it? Many of the newer catalina models do go for that stupid single chain plate to attach the lower an upper shrouds to the same point. Not only does that put all the load in a single spot, but if you get some failure at that plate you loose your rig. I guess they have to keep costs down and keep up with the rest. I would certainly buy a new catalina over a beneteau or hunter, but then again I prefer the older models. Now a really great catalina is the 38, but then again catalina did not design this one.
Having sailed two days on a westsail 32 in 10 to 15 foot seas and winds up to 30 Knots I have to agree this is the boat I want in a storm! If I were getting ready for a bluewater passage I would certainly consider one. I have had my old catalina 27 out in 10 foot seas and winds around 30 to 35 knots. I was damn scared, but survived fine. I also added a second reef point after that. On my slightly newer catalina 30 I added the second reef almost instantly. Catalina has made the hulls thinner on their newer boats. I am not sure if this is a cost cutting measure or just some new technology that allows them to get away with it? Many of the newer catalina models do go for that stupid single chain plate to attach the lower an upper shrouds to the same point. Not only does that put all the load in a single spot, but if you get some failure at that plate you loose your rig. I guess they have to keep costs down and keep up with the rest. I would certainly buy a new catalina over a beneteau or hunter, but then again I prefer the older models. Now a really great catalina is the 38, but then again catalina did not design this one.
Cats over Bens
I was very impressed with the new Catalina's that I saw at the boat show a few months ago. I really liked the aft stateroom of the C360. And of course, the 470 is just increadable. Then we took a look at the Benneteau's and were actually disapointed. I could not believe the difference in the interior. I always thought of Benneteau as some high end boat, I didn't know it was even in the same class as Catalina's. But, I tell ya', if you haven't seen a 2000 Catalina, Check them out before buying a new boat, you may be suprised. I was.
I was very impressed with the new Catalina's that I saw at the boat show a few months ago. I really liked the aft stateroom of the C360. And of course, the 470 is just increadable. Then we took a look at the Benneteau's and were actually disapointed. I could not believe the difference in the interior. I always thought of Benneteau as some high end boat, I didn't know it was even in the same class as Catalina's. But, I tell ya', if you haven't seen a 2000 Catalina, Check them out before buying a new boat, you may be suprised. I was.
Next Boat
I started my sailboat ownership with Aquarius 21 perfect boat to learn docking skills. 1986 Hunter 28.5 which we raced and cruised. terrible weather helm on 28.5 and had to reef at 15 knots. 1984 Catalina 36. Solid boat heavy sails well in heavy weather. The only problems have been maintenance related. Blisters, rotten mast step, bad diesel tank. I seem to remember less hull and structural problems on my Hunter than the Catalina. Never had any blisters on the Hunter. All in all my next boat will probably be Sabre or a Island Packet depending if I go back to racing.
I started my sailboat ownership with Aquarius 21 perfect boat to learn docking skills. 1986 Hunter 28.5 which we raced and cruised. terrible weather helm on 28.5 and had to reef at 15 knots. 1984 Catalina 36. Solid boat heavy sails well in heavy weather. The only problems have been maintenance related. Blisters, rotten mast step, bad diesel tank. I seem to remember less hull and structural problems on my Hunter than the Catalina. Never had any blisters on the Hunter. All in all my next boat will probably be Sabre or a Island Packet depending if I go back to racing.
Catalina and Hunter, although both appealing to the same income group, are very different boats. The Catalina's are traditional looking and sailing vessels while the Hunters are more contemporary. I personally do not care for the Hunters. For the kind of sailing I do, I think the Cats are a superior vessel. The exterior styling of the boats is very different also. The Hunters seem to be a sailboat that a former power boat owner would be interested in. The interior of both boats are similarly appointed with great creature comforts. All in all, nothing beats a Catalina for price, styling, and sailing.
Ericson 36C
I just looked at an '76 Ericson 36C cutter rig. The keel is almost full and the waterline length is 30' for fast passages. This just looks like a stout boat. You just look at it inside and out and know its a class up by the way things were done. It invoked blue water dreams. The only info I could find on the boat is that there was a bunch of them made by Ericson to try to get into the cruising market and people hold on to them a very long time. This seems to me a very good thing. For 60k, if that dealer took tradeins, I would probably have a new boat soon. What a boat... Mike Elmore Windward Hull C28 - Hull #7
I just looked at an '76 Ericson 36C cutter rig. The keel is almost full and the waterline length is 30' for fast passages. This just looks like a stout boat. You just look at it inside and out and know its a class up by the way things were done. It invoked blue water dreams. The only info I could find on the boat is that there was a bunch of them made by Ericson to try to get into the cruising market and people hold on to them a very long time. This seems to me a very good thing. For 60k, if that dealer took tradeins, I would probably have a new boat soon. What a boat... Mike Elmore Windward Hull C28 - Hull #7
Hey Mike,
Before you spend $60K on that Ericson, order a "Practical Sailor" review of the boat in question.
Before you spend $60K on that Ericson, order a "Practical Sailor" review of the boat in question.
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