Can My 120 Lb 4D Battery be Saved by Equalization?

[Dan_Y]

Two new "RV Deep Cycle" Interstate SRM-4Ds came with our h36 in Aug '15, and at that time I installed a ProNautic 1250P (before I realized the deal I could have gotten from MainSail). The ProNautic maintains the batteries year-round, but has loads 24/7 like the refer for about 6 mo of the year. I can't lift them out of the hold to take home for the winter.

Two weeks ago we lost power and the ProNautic lost it's mind and didn't return to charging mode when it powered up, just sat there showing 0.1 v output at 0 amps, with full fan on and cold. The panel meter showed the batteries ran down to about 11.8v. Upon cycling the AC power the ProNautic resumed normal operation and output 51 Amps over a period of at least 3 hours before getting the voltage up into the mid 13's. It eventually switched to Auto Maintain after about 5 hours only. I keep the charger in Flooded, Preset 2 (14.7 v conditioning and 12.8-13.4 v Auto Maintain). This happened once before last year when we forgot to turn the pedestal on after a day sail and the batteries discharged to 11.8 or 11.9 after several days.

Today with the charger in the Auto Maintain mode before shutting it off, one battery was hot and looked like it had been boiling while the other was cool. The hot battery measured 11.21v with loads/charger off for about 30 minutes (not 24 hours) and the cool battery was at 13.02 v.

Would equalization possibly bring the "dead" battery back - or is it a 120 lb zombie needing replacement by 2 GC2s?
TIA
Dan

 

[dlochner]

Dan, I can't answer your question specifically, but it does appear that the one battery is toast. If the most it can get to is 11.21v that suggests to me that you have a dead cell in that battery.

If you are going to replace one 4D you might as well replace them both with 4 GCs. It will be much harder to round up a crew of beefy guys to lift the battery out the second. You'll probably needs lots of cold .

If you go the GC route get one of these Battery Lifting Straps from Amazon. The SBO shop has a nice battery box from Dyno that holds 4 GCs.

before I realized the deal I could have gotten from MainSail

I hear ya. MS always seems to start selling the expensive stuff right after I buy it elsewhere or I discover he is selling it right after I buy it. Have to learn to check there first.

 

[Maine Sail]

Your dead battery has most likely internally failed. Disconnect from the other one ASAP. Equalizing that battery is recipe for thermal runaway or potentially an exploding battery.... 4D batteries for some reason are the number on batteries I see short and fail internally closely followed by 8D's. They really have no good "orientation" on a sail boat..

I will say it here again 4D & 8D flooded batteries, other than Rolls or Dyno, are NOT deep cycle. 3-5 years is what to expect on average. You got three with a couple of overly deep cycles.

 

[Dan_Y]

Thanks Dave, will certainly look at those straps. Makes me think I should get lots of beer and have both batteries pulled at the same time!

Thanks Maine, Having read all of your material I can find, I pulled the positive post off that battery right then. Will pull the ground tomorrow. It was really warm to the touch and I was concerned. Thanks for saving my boat, I’ll not attempt to equalize.

I had planned to parallel the two 4Ds into a house bank and install a reserve bank (Group 27 or 31 deep cycle), tying the two banks with an ACR. But for now, I’ll replace the bad 4D with 2 6v GC batteries, and leave the 4D and GCs as two separate batteriy banks off the 1-all-2-off sw the way the two 4Ds were wired by Hunter.

If I try to get a little more time out of the good 4D, how long could I go before it would be unwise to tie 2 more new GC batteries into a the slightly used GCs to make a house bank as planned? Yea, a million variables in that “it depends” answer. We only plan a few more over nights this season and the rest just daysails. The banks will be on the charger the rest of the time in the slip.

I’ll bet the 120 lb 4D core trade in is only the same as a 10 lb riding lawnmower battery...:-/
Many thanks,
Dan

 

[justsomeguy]

I’ll bet the 120 lb 4D core trade in is only the same as a 10 lb riding lawnmower battery...:-

A realist.

 

[shemandr]

I pulled 4D batteries out of my 356 using an extra mainsail sheeting system and the boom. It was a one handed affair with a cam cleat. One we had the battery out of the lazarette the lateral transfer to the dock and cart weren't that hard. By all means have some buddies there to help stabilize and spot. But don't get a buddy's back injured - you'll regret that for a long time.

 

[dlochner]

I had planned to parallel the two 4Ds into a house bank and install a reserve bank (Group 27 or 31 deep cycle), tying the two banks with an ACR. But for now, I’ll replace the bad 4D with 2 6v GC batteries, and leave the 4D and GCs as two separate batteriy banks off the 1-all-2-off sw the way the two 4Ds were wired by Hunter.

We only plan a few more over nights this season and the rest just daysails. The banks will be on the charger the rest of the time in the slip.

With only a few overnights and day sails, I'd be be tempted to just disconnect the bad battery and run off the one good one for the rest of the season. Then replace the batteries with GCs next spring. It is best to have all the batteries in a bank to be of the same age and type. That is unlikely to happen doing half now and half later. Besides, you will have the whole winter to obsess about the new system.

 

[marchem]

I pulled 4D batteries out of my 356 using an extra mainsail sheeting system and the boom. It was a one handed affair with a cam cleat. One we had the battery out of the lazarette the lateral transfer to the dock and cart weren't that hard. By all means have some buddies there to help stabilize and spot. But don't get a buddy's back injured - you'll regret that for a long time.

I pulled the two 4Ds out of our C310 and replaced them with 4 GC2s (and a G24). Did all the lifting myself (64 YO). The 4Ds were heavy, but not terrible. Luckily it was a straight lift up out of the battery compartment.

Dan, switching from 2 4Ds to 4 GC2s and a group 24 was one of the best things I've done on the boat. Now I've got way more house capacity than before and an isolated starter battery.

 

[Dan_Y]

Decided to get rid of both 4Ds and now Have 4, 230 Ah, GC 2 (Duracell SLIGC15). They are a EP Deka 01280 I think. Also got a deka G31 reserve. Building new battery box now and measuring wires to install an ACR. Looking for the Charging spec so I can program my battery charger.
Thanks To all who responded,
Dan

 

[ggray]

Check around for battery recycling.
We got $77 for 260 lbs of Lifelines.

 

[Dan_Y]

Update: Have the four GC15’s installed and wired for now as two 230Ah, 12v batteries like the two 4Ds were of the 1-2-Both-Off battery switch as it came from the factory. Selected only one fully charged bank and ran several dc loads as if out sailing for 1/2 day then used that bank to start the engine with no problem, even though the starter is 23 ft from the battery (12’ of 2/0 from battery to the switch and 11 ft of 2AWG from switch to starter).

Q1. Does anyone have a way to calculate the CCA for a golf cart battery like the Deka GC15 (230 Ah)? Is turned over the Yanmar 3YM30 with 1.4 kw starter no problem.
Q2. I want to add the blue seas 9230 100amp shunt to the eventual house bank, that would be used to start the 3YM30 if the start/reserve croaked, but the shunt is only rated for 300amps for 3 sec. I realize locked rotor/starting inrush is likely twice as high for a quarter sec +/-.

 

[dlochner]

Q1. Does anyone have a way to calculate the CCA for a golf cart battery like the Deka GC15 (230 Ah)? Is turned over the Yanmar 3YM30 with 1.4 kw starter no problem.

I have Myanmar 3JH2e that is a little larger than your diesel. It starts off a Group 24 battery with no problem. The 2 GCs can easily start the diesel. The CCA rating is not important.

Q2. I want to add the blue seas 9230 100amp shunt to the eventual house bank, that would be used to start the 3YM30 if the start/reserve croaked, but the shunt is only rated for 300amps for 3 sec. I realize locked rotor/starting inrush is likely twice as high for a quarter sec +/-.

Is this for a Blue Seas Ammeter? The Victron Battery Monitor has a more robust shunt and can serve as a voltmeter, SOC meter, watt meter, as well as a ammeter.

 

[Dan_Y]

Thanks. I was thinking about a smart gauge for a SoC meter. My issue is that hopefully 99% of the time the house will be running less than 10-15 A, except for when I need to start the engine. For accuracy I think the blue sea ammeter using a 100a 50 mVshunt should be more accurate than a 500a 50mV or 500 A 100mV shunt.