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C22 New Style "Stormwatch" Purchase and Refit

Discussion in 'Catalina 22' started by Leeward Rail, May 22, 2015. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. AaronD

    AaronD

    Joined Aug 10, 2014
    108 posts, 15 likes
    Catalina 22
    US St Helens
    Ah. That makes sense. Thanks!
     


  2. Leeward Rail

    Leeward Rail

    Joined Mar 20, 2015
    1,474 posts, 303 likes
    Catalina 22 New Style
    CA SHYC, Lake Winnipeg
    While busy with other tasks, (including spending sun-up to sundown building a CRC rally car, with my timeline challenged nephew, who clearly takes after me. hehe), I've been mulling over lazarette lid gas springs.

    Due to the "wet" location, I'd be even more inclined to use stainless. The use of gas springs seems to have little advantage over a simpler locking support. A simple stainless locking support, would likely be cheaper, function perfectly, and last forever. The only advantages I can see for a gas spring in this application, are:

    1) ability to close the lid with one hand.
    2) mounted correctly on the new design fuel locker lid, the spring would not only hold the lid open, but would pull it shut when past the point of maximum compression. Always latching them shut is mandatory IMO, but the gas spring would prevent it from flopping open easily if you lay the boat on it's side. assuming your fuel tank is strapped down, and you also forgot to latch it. (grasping at straws for this advantage I know)

    Unlike the poptop,weight isn't a problem with the lids.


    @$tingy Sailor 's https://stingysailor.com/2016/03/05/lift-your-lazarette-lids-with-gas-springs/ has some definite food for thought.

    Read his page, and let me know what you think. And make sure you vote on his page if you would commit to ordering a pre-made lazarette gas spring kit from him.

    Bungees are what I've been using, and they suck.

    Thoughts ?
    (of course, the bonus of inducing hardware envy in other C22 owners does have it's merits... @Gene Neill )

    I'm looking for a photo I saved, of the type of support I have in mind.
    I'l post a photo when I find it
    It's basically a flat stainless arm that slides together with a locking "pin"
     


    Last edited: May 23, 2018
  3. Gene Neill

    Gene Neill

    Joined Sep 30, 2013
    2,381 posts, 883 likes
    C-22, Albin Vega
    US central Florida
    Hmmmm. $70 per kit,and a kit does two lazarettes? That's tempting. I wonder if I could make one work on the anchor locker hatch. Must take a look.

    Here is my current solution. I have a small wooden block epoxied to the underside of each hatch, near the inboard edge. A small padeye is screwed to the block. A length of thin shock cord is tied to the padeye, with a snap hook tied to the other end.

    Open the hatch, grab the dangling snap hook, stretch it out to the lifeline, snap it on. Low tech, low cost, in use for three years-ish, no problems.
     


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  4. Leeward Rail

    Leeward Rail

    Joined Mar 20, 2015
    1,474 posts, 303 likes
    Catalina 22 New Style
    CA SHYC, Lake Winnipeg
    One thing i don't like about gas springs is their limited life span.
    Some makes CAN be refilled with nitrogen, but many companies don't do that for you.

    I was thinking f something along these lines:
    [​IMG]
    That one is a quality japanese cabinet hardware unit, made from stainless.
    it locks in multiple positions (which is likely not needed)
    Unfortunately the price is 80$ !!

    I have seen similar looking units, that only lock when fully extended but can't seem to find any via google images ?

    As for stainless pop-top springs:
    I heard back from one company so far, that can make custom stainless poptop ones for approx $62 USD each with another $12 for the ability to lock.
    The force can be customized as required, so they could be made slightly less than the original kit's force of 120lbs each
    So around $136 plus brackets + ends... maybe $200 ? I have sent them a reference photo and will contact them for pricing including stainless brackets and ends.
     


  5. greg_m

    greg_m

    Joined May 23, 2017
    368 posts, 134 likes
    Catalina Jaguar 22
    ZA Simons Town
    I think some peeps are showing there age... needing gas springs to open a cockpit locker... pfff..., erm, off to the hardware store to see what they got in stock!
     


  6. Leeward Rail

    Leeward Rail

    Joined Mar 20, 2015
    1,474 posts, 303 likes
    Catalina 22 New Style
    CA SHYC, Lake Winnipeg
    LOL !

    I can't speak for others, but this is more about self preservation.

    One time sailing sailing in the BVI's, a lazarette locker lid, held by a bungee, slammed down into the Admiral's shoulder while she was grabbing fenders. She had a big bruise for the remainder of our holiday.

    At one point, a local guy, selling stuff near "The Baths", waited, until she was alone to ask her if the bruise was really from the boat, and said "if your husband is beating you, my friends and I will deal with him, and then hand him over to the police"

    Thankfully, she assured him that it was, in fact, an accident.

    I actually went over and thanked him. I wish more men were like that.

    I plan on heading to a local cabinet hardware supplier, to see what they have in stainless lid supports that lock when fully extended.
     


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  7. rpludwig

    rpludwig

    Joined May 23, 2016
    549 posts, 276 likes
    Catalina 22 #12502
    US BSC


  8. Leeward Rail

    Leeward Rail

    Joined Mar 20, 2015
    1,474 posts, 303 likes
    Catalina 22 New Style
    CA SHYC, Lake Winnipeg
    Not bad at all. Sugatsune seems to the be the main manufacturer for stainless cabinet hardware based on my searches.
    They are the guys who make the multi position one I posted earlier.
    My local chandlery has one another one made by sugatsune that should work, but I suspect it's more than $15

    A quick search of that ahturf site lists most of the sugatsune stuff.
    http://ahturf.com/store/index.php?route=product/search&filter_name=stainless steel lid stay

    I'll have to measure the lid swing to see what length is needed.
    That $15 one is 7 7/8 extended 5 inches compressed
     


    Last edited: May 29, 2018
  9. Jacomo Sailor

    Jacomo Sailor

    Joined Feb 11, 2015
    154 posts, 38 likes
    Catalina 22
    US Lake Jacomo


  10. greg_m

    greg_m

    Joined May 23, 2017
    368 posts, 134 likes
    Catalina Jaguar 22
    ZA Simons Town
    I dunno hey guys... that story not so long ago about a boat sinking due to the cockpit hatch falling open when been knocked down was way too chilling for me to have anything to hold or support hatches in the open position... regardless of the closing effort when compressed.

    I like the bungee cord idea - hooked to the life line for holding open and then positive locking catch for when closed.
     


  11. rpludwig

    rpludwig

    Joined May 23, 2016
    549 posts, 276 likes
    Catalina 22 #12502
    US BSC
    agree with that, I ALWAYS keep ours secured with carabiners, whether underway or at the slip. No padlock to mess with, eze quick access when needed, but secure. Will still add some fix at some point, after LR figures it out!!
     


  12. Gene Neill

    Gene Neill

    Joined Sep 30, 2013
    2,381 posts, 883 likes
    C-22, Albin Vega
    US central Florida
    I always wanted some kind of self-locking lazarette latches. I saw them once on a Beneteau, but never could find them for sale. I'd buy them right this second if I knew a source.

    I believe that an un-latched lazarette will sink a C22 quicker (and more often) than any other single factor. Maybe all other factors combined.
     


  13. Leeward Rail

    Leeward Rail

    Joined Mar 20, 2015
    1,474 posts, 303 likes
    Catalina 22 New Style
    CA SHYC, Lake Winnipeg
    I have carabiners now for securing them closed. The old latches are showing their age and I plan on replacing them, but may just use the same system.


    Are there any photos of similar latches on google images ?
    Sure would be nice to have them automatically latch.

    Agreed on the "sinking via lazarette" risk. Latching them is MANDATORY.
    Our New style boats are only vulnerable to lazarette flooding on one side, but losing the fuel tank is not such a great thing either.
    I shudder to think how fast a C22 would go down if the cockpit lockers opened while on it's side.
    Maybe we can get someone to try it with their C22 and time it with a stop watch for the next issue of "MainBrace"
    Where the @EditorC22NSA when ya need them ? ;)
     


  14. Leeward Rail

    Leeward Rail

    Joined Mar 20, 2015
    1,474 posts, 303 likes
    Catalina 22 New Style
    CA SHYC, Lake Winnipeg
    I've been to two local cabinet hardware places, and they don't stock anything in stainless that would work.
    Both said they could special order the Sugatsune/Lamp hardware.
     


  15. greg_m

    greg_m

    Joined May 23, 2017
    368 posts, 134 likes
    Catalina Jaguar 22
    ZA Simons Town
    The story was about a C22 that was in a race, got knocked over while also being on an unfavourable slope of a swell, the cockpit locker fell open and IIFRC it was seconds between the "oh shit" and "where's the boat gone"! It was posted on this forum previously...
     


  16. Leeward Rail

    Leeward Rail

    Joined Mar 20, 2015
    1,474 posts, 303 likes
    Catalina 22 New Style
    CA SHYC, Lake Winnipeg
    Yup. that is not the only incident. It's a documented "problem" in other boats as well.
    What we need is a demonstration with hard timing data.
    Do I have time to save a dog + admiral and the rum ? Or just the dog ?
     


  17. greg_m

    greg_m

    Joined May 23, 2017
    368 posts, 134 likes
    Catalina Jaguar 22
    ZA Simons Town
    Yoh - I get it but no ways am I going to offer any assistance to your dilemma... ;) however from experience the dog is ALWAYS happy to see me!
     


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  18. Gene Neill

    Gene Neill

    Joined Sep 30, 2013
    2,381 posts, 883 likes
    C-22, Albin Vega
    US central Florida
    The dog will save himself. So it's down to the Admiral or the rum.

    How much does your wife earn annually? :laugh:
     


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  19. Leeward Rail

    Leeward Rail

    Joined Mar 20, 2015
    1,474 posts, 303 likes
    Catalina 22 New Style
    CA SHYC, Lake Winnipeg
    Well the problem is, the dog loves her more.
    In fact, every dog on the planet seems to love her more than any other human.
    So the dog and her, after saving each other, will be sitting on the dock or beach thinking... "I wonder how he's doing ? Should we go check after we finish this rum ?"
     


    Gene Neill likes this.
  20. Hardhead

    Hardhead

    Joined Apr 11, 2017
    178 posts, 52 likes
    Catalina C22
    US Solomon's Island, MD
    I was worried about flooding in a knockdown too. I just installed these new latches on my cockpit lazarettes. If you twist the ends, they have substantial friction that seems to lock them very tight, even without locks attached. I had to bend the latches slightly on a vice, and file the bolt heads flat (under the padlock eye) to get them to fit properly, but no real trouble at all. I did have to install them with the hinge bending the other way, so that the bolt heads are exposed, rather than covered by the latch. The tolerances are tight after installed. I like them a lot.

    https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DHBWQAU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
     


    Last edited: May 31, 2018

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