C-27 Refit/Refurb

Dec 2, 2015
1
Catalina C 27 Kemah
I just wanted to say hello. I just bought a Catalina C27, hull # 1961, and I have started the restoration of it. I look forward to following your progress.
 
Dec 11, 2008
1,338
catalina C27 stillwater
You are only 40 hulls away from me. I'm 2001.

I REALLY want to get in the water this spring. Watch for winter activity!
 

jrowan

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Mar 5, 2011
1,294
O'Day 35 Severn River, Mobjack Bay, Va.
Phil you've got to be done with your C-27 rebuild by now, right mate?
 
Dec 11, 2008
1,338
catalina C27 stillwater
Phil you've got to be done with your C-27 rebuild by now, right mate?
Dude... So much has happened since I bought the beast. Two children born, one almost ready for Pre-K, the second child forcing an office build to free up a bedroom, a major plumbing issue that led to a bath rebuild. All of those side-distractions have turned out great!

I was originally on a 5-month schedule that started well after a drought had a firm grip on my lake. I gutted my dock and built new, a lot further out, to prevent drying out only to end up with the new dock sitting on dry ground! I never thought that would happen.

Had I baam able to launch in 5 months, much of the work I've done never would have happened. AC, air horn, the luxurious cockpit seating, shore power... I have had the time to walk away when I felt pressured rather than busting my ass and taking shortcuts. I have had time to consider the packing gland and hose, time to find the rusty single hose clamps on the prop shaft hose.

Have I wanted to sail her the last five seasons? Hell yea! Has the time proved to be in my side? Yes.


My only regret in this whole odyssey (SP?)was selling our '87 C22. We got left without anything to sail. That boat would have still been usable even in the lowest water level times.

Has it been an ideal situation? No. It has taught me patience, and I have had better balanced life as a result.

I'm not complaining...
 
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Dec 11, 2008
1,338
catalina C27 stillwater
Look what was between me and the bottom of the lake. First off, check out the TWO AUTOMOTIVE HOSE CLAMPS holding the rubber on the stuffing box and the boat's shaft log. Note the worm screws came out rather than loosening the clamping band.
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Scary.

The prop shaft hose looks relatively new.. .240" thick with two layers of cloth reinforcing. It's Exhaust hose though... ????
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Then the packing was, shall we say, a very non-traditional job. The first ring pulled out was actually a double-wind. The middle ring looked awfully thick, with just a single turn. The last piece was a double-wrap of an even smaller diameter packing:

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Lastly the prop shaft. Note the dimensions on the story board. It's nominally a 1" shaft. The shaft thins to .985, roughly mid-way in the packing. It then goes back out to .995 past the packing area and then up to .998 outside of the boat.
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Notice the very evident line where the color goes from bronze to copper?
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De-zincification? Or did I just not polish it as much? This gives me cause for concern.
I don't want to buy a new shaft but I'm afraid that is what I am looking at. I hate to spend a lot of money but you know what I already have. Do it right, right? I will be ordering a new hose and FOUR proper clamps. Also a new set screw; the one that bites the shaft and attaches the coupler. I already have plenty Ultra-X packing, 3/16"

image.jpg


I'll clean up the stuffing box and have it ready. I just hope the pros will chime in with some good advice based on the evidence shown. Thoughts guys?
 
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Dec 11, 2008
1,338
catalina C27 stillwater
After looking at the prop-shaft pic, the angle of the shot confuses the image. If you look closely where the .985 arrow points, it appears to point to a copper-colored ring. That copper ring is immediately outside the boat, just past the packing in the stuffing box. The very clear black bands define the basic location of the old flax packing.
 
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Jun 26, 2015
17
Catalina 36 MK II Burred Civic Marina
Phil, I am thoroughly impressed with your re-furb. I wish i had the time to do my entire boat like you're doing. I'm wondering if you can give me some advice. I'm about to tackle the job of sanding and refinishing the exterior teak on my 1976 Catalina 27. Not sure where to start. How did you go about doing yours? Should I remove everything or do it attached to the boat? What products would you recommend?

Thanks in advance!
-Sasha
 
Dec 11, 2008
1,338
catalina C27 stillwater
Phil, I am thoroughly impressed with your re-furb. I wish i had the time to do my entire boat like you're doing. I'm wondering if you can give me some advice. I'm about to tackle the job of sanding and refinishing the exterior teak on my 1976 Catalina 27. Not sure where to start. How did you go about doing yours? Should I remove everything or do it attached to the boat? What products would you recommend?

Thanks in advance!
-Sasha
Hi Sasha-

Removing the exterior wood for finishing will make your job a lot easier. It will also give you a chance to clean and seal any thru-holes/ screw holes used to fasten the wood in place.

On the wood, I recommend using a stripper if there is any varnish left. Usually there isn't any left though... :) More times than not you can simply fire up a sander and get busy smoothing the surface and removing the grey oxidation. I use a random orbit sander and would start with 120 grit paper, finishing with 220 or 320. The surface material you are removing will be relatively soft, so it should go relatively quick.

Depending on what you end up with after initial sanding, you may find you still have some stains. Some folks leave these as they add character, but others want their woodwork looking brand new. If you are in the new-look camp, some Oxalic Acid or TSP, (tri-sodium phosphate) cleaning solution will even thins up for you. Follow the directions on the container. After washing the wood and removing the stains, you will want to wash it thoroughly with water to get rid of the cleaner. This will raise the wood grain, so sanding with your finest, (220 or 320) sandpaper will flatten things back out.

As for the finish, I have used Cetol and like it. I have used varnish and like it. I have even used Spar Urethane and have had good results. For ease of use and future touch up the Cetol is hard to beat, as you can apply layer over layer, regardless of time passed, with only a minimal scuffing required. Much of the "bad press" associated with Cetol over the years is due mostly to the fact that the original product had an orange-ish semi translucent appearance. These days you can do a Cetol finish that to the casual eye is quite similar to varnish, as Cetol is now a line of products, instead of the single product offered originally. All that being said, everyone reading this will have their own preference based on their personal experience. Nobody is wrong; there is no real definitive answer. Stu Jackson even has a humorous flow-chart for a boat owner's decisions regarding their preferred finish. If he reads this I will ask the he respond with it.

Regardless which product you choose, make sure it has UV stabilizers and make sure it is intended for full sun and exterior use. A non-UV product will deteriorate quite quickly in the sun. Be cautious too; many marine varnishes do not contain UV stabilizers... There is at least one Cetol product that is non-UV stable, and there are some varnishes, (Interlux Jet Speed is an example) that are designed for exterior use, BUT on the condition that a UV-stable top-coat, (Interlux Schooner as an example) be applied to protect it.

I used West Marine's varnish on this boat, not out of any preference, but rather that is simply what came with the boat from the previous owner and in a large enough quantity to do all the work.

What IS universal is the need for thorough and proper prep. When you hear folks griping about a product performing poorly, you have to consider the very real possibility that their prep work was not complete prior to finish application.

As you do your sanding, you will discover that as you go deeper into fresh wood the sanding dust changes. It starts to sort of cling together in little clumps rather than just flying up into the air. The reason is that the wood is by nature quite oily. The oils in the wood are causing the sanding dust to stick together. These oils are literally right on the surface of your wood. If you don't remove the oils, any finish you apply will simply be sitting on top of the wood and ONLY on top of the wood. It is an awkward analogy but varnishing on top of this oil is a lot like varnishing the surface of a body of water.
You want your finish to get INTO your wood, forming a mechanical bond. To do this you have to remove the oils.

So...

Once you get a piece of wood stripped, sanded smooth and bleached to your liking, right before finish application you need to remove that surface oil from the wood. Acetone is your friend. My standard practice is to use white rags, liberally soaked in acetone. You want to wipe down your workpiece all around, removing dust and surface oils. When you have scrubbed all over with the first white rag, pitch it aside and get a new one soaked with acetone and keep scrubbing. The white cloths will quickly get discolored by the oils; you want to scrub with clean soaked rags until they come away from your woodwork clean without color. That is your sign that you have removed all that oily surface contamination. Let the wood part dry, it only takes a few minutes, and then IMMEDIATELY apply your first coat of finish. This first coat is often thinned to aid in penetration into the surface of the wood; check the application guide for whatever product you are using. Some finished are reduced by half, while others recommend no thinning. Go with the recommendations on the container of whatever product you are using.

For any finish system to last, you want a minimum of four coats. Any less is just not sufficient to get any build thickness. I usually will go a minimum of 10 coats... Be prepared to patiently watch paint dry.... But be prepared and ready to go with the next coat as soon as you can apply it. If you can lay a fresh coat on while the previous coat is just barely dry you can use the solvents in the fresh coat to bond to the previous coat; you get a chemical bond that is quite strong. Wait too long and you need to sand before applying the next coat, resulting in only a mechanical bond. If you can drop fresh coats on top of previous coats as part of a well-planned process, I find that you will only need to sand every 4th coat. Sanding every coat prior to the next coat as many will recommend is unnecessary work and greatly slows your ability to get a sufficient build thickness of finish material. This is another topic where everyone has their own opinion but sanding in four-coat intervals is what has worked for me on all of the boats I have done, including two wooden runabout show boats.

The level of smoothness of the final coat is directly correlated to how many coats you are willing to put on. There is no shortcut... Many folks are happy with a uniform shine, leaving some grain visible in the finish top layer. You can get this with as few as 6 or 8 coats Others will want a totally flat mirror-smooth top coat, achieved by slowly filling the low parts of the surface with finish, while sanding down the high parts until there is no level difference. This usually takes 14 coats or more. Many people end up landing somewhere in between, with a top coat of finish that is pretty close to flat, but with a little grain left. That is fine. It is totally up to you. This is usually either due to getting tired of watching finish dry, or running out of either time or finish material.

My last point, going back to UV is this, and while I have heard it from several places, I do not hear it everywhere: Many wood boat and marine refinishing folks will tell you that the UV inhibitors found in UV-stable finish products will float to the top of the finish coat as part of the curing process. As a result, these people will tell you to never sand and polish your last coat, as it will remove the UV protection found in that coat. I have no definitive proof either way, but as a practice I never sand my top coat. Look at it this way: If you can get to a level of finish you are happy looking at with your last coat, leave it. Leave it ALONE. If not, lightly sand it, (I try to always put my last sanding in just prior to what I think is my last coat) and do it again. Oh, and don't wax it either... :) If you ever plan on maintenance coats...

Sorry for the long read but that is my take on the subject... Be prepared for other folks to chime in... :)
 
Dec 11, 2008
1,338
catalina C27 stillwater
Driveline parts are staring to arrive. Christmas for L.L.attitudes II!!

Here is the brand new Buck Algonquin A4-specific prop shaft coupler. 'Just mic'd in at .998. We will see what the interference fit will be when the shaft comes in...
IMG_7478.JPG
 
Dec 11, 2008
1,338
catalina C27 stillwater
Boat Jewelry! I received my new stuffing box and shaft today. Calling the machinist shortly.....
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IMG_7635.JPG
 
Dec 11, 2008
1,338
catalina C27 stillwater
One step forward, one step back.

I picked up my fitted and faced new coupling and prop shaft last night so tonight I started re-installing the driveline.

I pre-packed the stuffing box, (super-easy out of the boat!) and installed the box and the rubber hose onto the shaft log. Let me tell Ya that's a BI}%H shoving it on! Working the hose slowly on, I finally bottom it out on the log. Before tightening the hose clamps I carefully installed the prop shaft to pull everything in-line. Then I tightened the back hose clamps.

The pics will give you an idea below... I need to remove the hose and shorten it. Probably an inch. This just to get the coupling in between the motor and the shaft.
image.jpg

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I may go to the lengths of even taking the motor mounts loose and sliding the motor forward on the beds. It's out of alignment port to starboard anyway so not a huge deal.

She's going back together but re-installing new shaft and coupling looks like it will take days, not hours.
 
Dec 11, 2008
1,338
catalina C27 stillwater
Time for the Icy-Hot.

Tonight I crawled in the starboard quarter berth and took the stuffing box and hose off the shaft log. Then I went to the workbench and removed an inch of hose. Careful measurement told me this would gain me the necessary space to get the solid coupling to the shaft. Got it back together with minimal fuss, and it feels really solid!

Thing is, it's just barely room for the coupling! There is no mallet swinging room!!! My only chance at doing this is with heat, lots of it and FAST work. The prospect of a coupling partially on, siezed on with a possibly galled shaft scares the poop out of me.

I may chalk this solid coupling up to experience to go hit up Don Moyer for a split coupling. His part is pricey, but it's a guaranteed win. What is the cost on another prop shaft????? More than one coupling and the cost of machining the coupling...

While at Moyer, I might as well get new A4 motor mounts. These I have are original to the boat obviously and I have a very visible alignment issue port to starboard not due to 5 years on a trailer. If I am going to loosen the bed to mount joint I am going to replace the mounts.

Here are a few pics tonight. Notice the naked-eye misalignment between prop shaft and Reversing gear output coupling.
image.jpg
 
Dec 11, 2008
1,338
catalina C27 stillwater
Hee is the pic showing the new-found room. Note distance from keyway to front of stuffing box.

I still think it's probably not enough.
image.jpg
 
Dec 11, 2008
1,338
catalina C27 stillwater
I am gambling on my own skills; this time betting against them... My bet is that I have too little room and too much inexperience to attempt to heat a coupling enough to get it to slide on, and then actually contort myself into the lazz, with a hot coupling, and slide it on EXACTLY to the set screw dimple. Blow it once and I am buying a new shaft AND a new coupling.... plus machining...

Don Moyer got some of my money. I ordered an A4-specific split coupling from him this morning. I already told my machinist... He is ready to hone another one, at the same cost to me as the first one...

While I was at it, I decided just to suck it up and buy 4 new motor mounts. If I am going to have to loosen the current ones in order to align the motor, I might as well go that little extra distance and replace them.

B.O.A.T. it is an acronym. Bust Out Another Thousand.....
 
Dec 11, 2008
1,338
catalina C27 stillwater
Done early! Shaft and coupling are assembled. Now to work on alignment. This is gonna be fun....
image.jpg
 
Dec 11, 2008
1,338
catalina C27 stillwater
So.... Installing a shaft coupling in that tiny space is a cakewalk compared to adjusting motor alignment...

The motor has been out of the boat at least once, as I have documentation. I believe the motor mounts were randomly rotated resulting in a significant port starboard bias. This can be the only answer as there are only 8 lag holes. Surely the motor lined up at one time??? I need to remove lag bolts and see if I can rotate the mounts to gain some more horizontal movement. The very hard ring on the old shaft is easy to explain now; it was obviously cut by rubbing the shaft log.

I have 4 new mounts just in case, and am slowly removing the lag bolts that hold the mounts down to the motor beds. They're coming out real easy... Too easy. Time to go get a set of 8 lag bolts the next size bigger in diameter. The holes in the beds are obviously solid glass, they're just worn sloppy. No wood rot I can detect like with other beds.

Real easy removal is a relative term. The lag bolts turn easily enough but they are a booger to get to physically.

I have the mounts loose enough that I can man-handle the motor enough starboard to line up by feel, but this is going to test me for sure.

No pics tonight but stay tuned.