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C-27 Refit/Refurb

Discussion in 'Mid-Size Boats' started by philwsailz, Oct 7, 2010. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. philwsailz

    philwsailz

    Joined Dec 11, 2008
    1,320 posts, 44 likes
    catalina C27
    US stillwater
    I have officially started work on C27, #2001, as of last night. My hope is that somehow I can maintain some sort of a living thread documenting updates with posts, details, and pics etc.

    Last night I started poking around on the interior wiring, and going over the PO's punch list of items to be completed. His punchlist is mostly functional, with some cosmetic points:

    · Finish stripping companionway door boards and varnish them. The wood handle on the companionway hatch could also use a touch up.
    · Wire masthead light and attach to top of mast
    · Install 4 prong plug on mast wiring at mast base
    · Run mast light wiring from breaker box through cabin and up through coach roof/mast step
    · Install/rebed mast step
    · Install new seacock on water intake for engine and attach water intake line from engine to seacock
    · Replace frayed wire that runs from starter to ignition switch
    · Put caps on pipes left over from marine head plumbing
    · Replace water tank and replumb
    · Drill new tiller and replace on rudder post

    Outside of these items, I intend to do the following:
    · Re-wire the boat's primary charging and distribution circuits
    ·
    install a 19" flat screen TV/DVD combo with surround sound, ( I work in AV, so it is kind of a tradition for me)
    · Install the omnidirectional digital TV antenna at the mast head
    · Replace old cabin lighting with an updated Halogen lighting system
    · Install ice-powered AC unit for summer use
    · Add rope clutches and redo running rigging for an all-line-led -aft control scenario
    · Replace incandescent running lighting with LED, (in an attempt to make up for the halo lighting down below

    That is the short list for now, and I am sure it will grow, but my hope is to launch by spring or early summer 2011. The boat is indoors, and I am working on lighting and heating, but that is coming together quickly. Stay tuned for updates, pics and more.
     


    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
    Karcher likes this.
  2. caguy

    caguy

    Joined Sep 22, 2006
    4,000 posts, 22 likes
    Catalina, Luger C-27, Adventure 30
    US Marina del Rey
    Sounds like we have the same list. I've been working on mine since mid July. Right now I am making the cushions. Last week I pulled wires so the steamer/deck light work independently. While I was at it I pulled the anchor light and R8 antenna wire and mounted the whip antenna on the masthead.
    Now that it has stopped raining here I will bed the hinged mast base when the #18 wood screws arrive.
    I installed a 15 hp Johnson ob and ran remote cables and adapted to the existing throttle/shifter controls. Wired the electric starter and added an kill switch.
    The gas tank leaked so I had that repaired and lined inside bottom of with resin.
    The list goes on and on. Well back to the cushions.
    Keep in touch, it's helpful to have someone with which to share ideas and resources. I'll post my progress at my website.
     


  3. shipwreck66

    shipwreck66

    Joined Apr 5, 2010
    565 posts, 0 likes
    Catalina 27- 1984
    US Grapevine
    I would like to know what type of ice-cooled AC unit you are installing. My wife would be overjoyed if I actually got one to work on our C-27. I have toyed with idea of using existing icebox for this purpose as it holds an enormous amount of ice and self-drains, and I recently installed a 8 can mini-fridge for our beverage needs that draws 22 watts on the inverter
     


  4. philwsailz

    philwsailz

    Joined Dec 11, 2008
    1,320 posts, 44 likes
    catalina C27
    US stillwater
    S-wreck-

    I need to test to seee if the stock icebox is sufficient, but I have seen this system installed on an old 22' Texas Maid aluminum cruiser, and it worked well.

    In a nutshell, the AC works by using a coil of copper tubing submerged/ immersed in a cooler full of ice, (the example cited was ice AND water, and even used a live-well recirc pump to keep water moving in the cooler). The coiled copper tubing is then connected via flexible tubing and a 12v water pump to a large heater core mounted in an appropriate spot to cool the interior. The heater core has a fan, either a pancake fan or a squirrel cage fan atttached to blow over the core. The closed cooling system, (heater core, tubing and copper tube coil) is filled with pink RV antifreeze, and recirculated with an inexpensive 12v pump. the pumps and fans were turned on by a thermostat of some sort. I do not recall if it were mercury or not. Were you to install a mercury switch, I would recommend mounting it in such a maner that it did not turn on with heeling under sail! :) The heater core needs a pan installed under it, adn will need to have a drain installed , in order to allow condensation to flow out and away, otherwise, you will be dealing with a wet spot under the heater core.

    Your cooling capacity is largely determined by how much ice you can get on the boat. and how well you can keep the whole system and boat insulated. The boat cited as an examplle was able to cool for a weekend using 10 bags , (8 lb bags I assume). He had done an extremely good job of insulating the ice, (I think it was 4" thick blown on foam) and he had also lined the boat's interior with 1" styrofoam board. I have to believe our boats will be slightly better insulated than an aluminum hull... :)

    I have seen the one, and yet have not built a prototype, so if you choose to do so, please post your results. I will be building an ice-chest version as a test mule in all likelihood first...
     


  5. Clark

    Clark

    Joined Jun 30, 2004
    876 posts, 0 likes
    Hunter 280
    US Lake Guntersville, AL
    Ugh. While costs would be low for a system like that - say initial investment of a couple hundred bucks and $20 each weekend for ice; the PITA factor seems high.
     


  6. philwsailz

    philwsailz

    Joined Dec 11, 2008
    1,320 posts, 44 likes
    catalina C27
    US stillwater
    For many people, the ice-buying is part of the weekend routine anyway. Given proper space, the place where the food, and a-hem, "beverages" are stored can be the same... Load the ice chest and go...

    One can use a 12v reverse-cycle AC, but you spend thousands for such a device, and it takes a LOT of power. That to me seems a similar PITA. What if it breaks? THAT will be pricey! You are usually carrying ice on board; what is a few more bags?

    I might agree it is a PITA in the longer term; I am in conceptual phase right now, and not 100% sure it will have enough "legs" to make it a whole weekend. But I am a tinkerer, with most of the parts lying around, so it will not be a big deal for me to give it a try. Stay tuned!
     


  7. philwsailz

    philwsailz

    Joined Dec 11, 2008
    1,320 posts, 44 likes
    catalina C27
    US stillwater
    I took the galley out last night, as it needs a new counter top, with updates of at least blow-on-foam insulation for the ice box, and new white formica. Having it out made the boat feel LOTS bigger.

    The sense of scale for the galley and dinette are out of proportion to my eye inside this boat. I am 6'3", so I take up a lot of space. I want to make the interior FEEL bigger; to look like a larger boat when casually glanced. I know the galley counter height is good at its current height, but who acutally needs it this high? Who really uses the galley truly as a galley these days? I think there might be a way to incorporate features more in tune with the way we live today.



    I am considering doing a different thing in that port corner historically occupied by the galley. I want to do away with the alcohol stove, and have a butane portable single burner stove instead. I am considering either putting it in the dinetted table, flush-mounted like at Japanese hotpot restaurants, or having it in a drawer where it can be pulled out. Removing the dual burner stove frees up about 16 inches for and aft.

    Attacking the scale, I am looking at dropping the galley counter height, a lot. This will create a much larger feel to the boat interior, while still allowing for at least the sink, and maybe a reduced-volume ice box. Removal of the stove shrinks the whole thing such that a TV can be put in there on the new counter top. SO, rather than being a true galley, (that is hardly used as a galley) the space become more an entertainment area and wet bar. See the attached pics with the galley removed, and the conceptual sketch, (elements are likely not to scale, like the sink, and a round bowl will be better suited anyway).

    The TV sits under a cabinet accessed by smoked or black acrylic sliders. 12v halogen lighting provides ambience and illuminates the counter top. The counter height is more at end-table height, as found in my smaller C-22, and poses no problem using the sink, from experience.

    To me, other than dialing in scale of the individual elements, (ice box lids, sink) this looks very doable, and greatly improves the aesthetics of this interior.

    Here are the two images, let me know your thoughts!
     

    Attached Files:



  8. Clark

    Clark

    Joined Jun 30, 2004
    876 posts, 0 likes
    Hunter 280
    US Lake Guntersville, AL
    THAT sounds like an awesome upgrade! It could affect the resale value but that may not matter if the interior is much more functional and pleasant and well done. As far as the icebox A/C, I guess I was thinking about all the melted ice issue as well. If there is a good (easy) plan for that then it could work. I just had visions of trundling down the dock with a dozen bags of ice to load ;-)

    Hey, would block ice work better?
     


  9. philwsailz

    philwsailz

    Joined Dec 11, 2008
    1,320 posts, 44 likes
    catalina C27
    US stillwater
    Thanks! I am a wood worker and wood boat restorer, so I think my work would end up looking close to the image... I am excited about it!


    Melt water would be a problem in early prototypes, but in a finished, properly-sized unit permanently installed, there would be a drain overboard to empty at the end of the weekend. I see carrying ice on, but it would drain out when you wanted it out.


    Block ice will last longer in an ice box where you want to store stuff dry, where the ice cools the air, but my initial hunch is it would not work as well on the AC thing, as I think you want the copper tube surronded by an ice or ice-water slurry.

    That being said, you don't know until you try it... :D One of my buddies brainstorming the ice AC thing has sugggested forming the coils around water frozen in plastic milk jugs... Chilled water would cover the coils, providing conduction. The ice jugs' mass would keep them from melting as fast...
     


  10. philwsailz

    philwsailz

    Joined Dec 11, 2008
    1,320 posts, 44 likes
    catalina C27
    US stillwater
    So, last night I got out some tape and actually laid out what I was thinking on the aft port wet bar and TV cabinet. In 3D, I used the tape to define the upper and lower sections. Then, I took a picture, and brought the image into my paint and photo software. You can see between teh two images below how the thing would fit in the boat. The render is different than the render above, but it is based on real measurements from actually inside the boat.

    I also took some time to start finishing the companionway hatch boards. See the first coat of filler stain in the third pic.
     

    Attached Files:



  11. philwsailz

    philwsailz

    Joined Dec 11, 2008
    1,320 posts, 44 likes
    catalina C27
    US stillwater
    So,
    Last night I had a little time to ponder what was already in stock; stuff on hand that had come out of the boat thus far. Studying the removed galley, it was obvious that the actual plywood and formica top was shot. The base seemed solid though from a mechanical standpoint, at least on the aft-most section that contained the rectangular sink and the ice box. Why build what you already have?

    So comparing my layout lines and measurements, I carefully removed about 7 or 8 inches of the bottom of the existing cabinet base, removing the extension arm that housed the alcohol stove. I considered removing material from the top, retaining TWO drawers instead of the two that were there in that location, but removing the BOTTOM of the cabinet, (and one drawer as a result) left enough clear space to install the sink prety much wherever I want to.

    The rounded corner is solid wood, and can be refinished along with the remaining drawer and the solid wook frame work around the drawer. The plywood of the base has a photo-paper sort of veneer, sort of like just a picture of wood grain and like the rest of these old boats the red color has been bleached out of the veneer leaving a mis-matched grey-walnut color. I am looking at either carefully replacing the plywood sections with real wood veneered plywood in teak or mahogany, (luan plywood is a good choice here) or I might just carefully cover the whole base in white formica. I really lean more to the wood look in this decision, in order to replicate the warmth and wood look of the renders above. Finances might dictate otherwise though...

    One thing that has become quite apparent to me is that I need to be cognizant of heeling angle and the effect that it can have. The previous owner of the boat mentioned that the icebox sometimes would get raw water in the bottom at larger heeling angles. The stock sink and icebox configuration relied on gravity feed to drain, and while lowering the sink does not put it below the bottom if the previous level of the ice box I still think I want to address the whole situation.

    In documents I have found, it appears that the factory added a loop to the ice box drain at some point, possibly to prevent the icebox from taking waer at heel angles. I want to work to try to maintain AT LEAST the same drain height, if not higher in any new ice box I fabricate. I will probably try to replpicate the factory loop in hopes that the icebox does not take water. Barring that effectiveness, I am considering installing a sump vessel below the sink and whatever ice box I intend to install, allowing the sink and the ice box to drain into the sump. From the sump, it seems a good idea to utilize a bilge pump to remove sink and icebox drain water through a thru hull abovce the water line, not unlike a true bilge pump setup. Such a configuration will not require a large sump vessel, and in fact a smaller one will be better, as it will tend to keep more liquid out of the boat due to a smaller vessel having a quicker vertical rate of fill.


    'Seems that for every opportunity another issue arises, and upon study you realize the painstaking hard work that went into carefully thinking out the systems for these old boats. They are not perfect, but represent a good set of compromises for the sailor of the days when they were being built.

    Here are two pics of the galley rebuild efforts from yesterday:
     

    Attached Files:



  12. Stu Jackson

    Stu Jackson

    Joined Feb 26, 2004
    19,911 posts, 576 likes
    Catalina 34
    224 CA Maple Bay, BC, Canada
    Phil, please recognize that the outside waterline is what is affecting the drains. The C25 and C27 issues were pretty much the same: open seacock, low level of sink or ice box bottom level, water backs into them. The most reliable thing to do is find a way to close the connection to the bottom of the ice box, and choose to let some water get into the sink if you're not gonna close the seacock.

    Putting a sump down low is only gonna make things worse, or at least not any better, since you'll just have a wet sump, and will be constantly pumping seawater out of it, using and wasting your important electrical storage.

    T the ice box drain line to the sink seacock with its own shutoff valve and you're done.
     


  13. philwsailz

    philwsailz

    Joined Dec 11, 2008
    1,320 posts, 44 likes
    catalina C27
    US stillwater
    Hey Stu-

    I totally understand that it is the water outside of the boat that is causing the issue.

    I shoudl clarify. My thoughts on using the sump are to permanenetly close the existing galley seacock. The discharge from the sump would be pumped overboard via a new thru hull ABOVE the waterline. The ONLY water that would be pumped out of the sump would be the sink's draininage, and ice melt. No sea water would be introduced.
     


  14. caguy

    caguy

    Joined Sep 22, 2006
    4,000 posts, 22 likes
    Catalina, Luger C-27, Adventure 30
    US Marina del Rey
    What do you plan on covering your hatch board with. Mine are also sanded down to bare wood. It doesn't appear that anything was on them previouly. The surround hatch rails and cockpit trim has been covered with Cetol.

    I also have a teak grid for the floor of the cockpit. Looks like is also untreated. Would you recommend teak oil or Cetol?
     


    Last edited: Oct 21, 2010
  15. Stu Jackson

    Stu Jackson

    Joined Feb 26, 2004
    19,911 posts, 576 likes
    Catalina 34
    224 CA Maple Bay, BC, Canada
    Phil, why use electricity when gravity would do the work? Also, above waterline discharges of any kind are a PITA for neighboring boats.

    And if you make it high enough to avoid water coming in when you're heeled, you're gonna end up with a streak on your hull you'll have to keep cleaning. Think, think, think: why don't boat builders do what you are suggesting? Cost is one, reality is another.
     


    Last edited: Oct 20, 2010
  16. philwsailz

    philwsailz

    Joined Dec 11, 2008
    1,320 posts, 44 likes
    catalina C27
    US stillwater

    The previous owner had already started refinishing with West Marine varnish, (made by Epiphanes), and the boat came with a LOT of varnish, so I am using what the project was started with.

    That being said, I REALLY like Cetol for its ease of application and maintenance. If you have some brightwork done in Cetol already, I highly recommend sticking with it. The stuff is really good.
     


  17. philwsailz

    philwsailz

    Joined Dec 11, 2008
    1,320 posts, 44 likes
    catalina C27
    US stillwater

    Hah hah hah, Thanks for the dialogue Stu... :) I thnk you probably have changed my mind about this mod...

    For the record, I will be on a private dock when I hit the water, so there are no neighboring boats. I am used to seeing bilge pump discharge well above the waterline as a result of my experience with my powerboat. These two facts contributed in part to my thought process.

    A simple ball valve on the ice box drain will be an easy addition. The sink will still be high enough not to be affected by seawater, and if it does big deal, right?
     


  18. caguy

    caguy

    Joined Sep 22, 2006
    4,000 posts, 22 likes
    Catalina, Luger C-27, Adventure 30
    US Marina del Rey
    What about the teak grid on the cockpit floor?

    It looks like nothing was ever put on it or it wore completely off. I have the same situation for the grid on the Luger 30. Are they left unfinished? What about splinters?
     


  19. Stu Jackson

    Stu Jackson

    Joined Feb 26, 2004
    19,911 posts, 576 likes
    Catalina 34
    224 CA Maple Bay, BC, Canada
    Phil, glad to help and decrease your workload!:)
     


  20. philwsailz

    philwsailz

    Joined Dec 11, 2008
    1,320 posts, 44 likes
    catalina C27
    US stillwater
    As long as you don't start making suggestions on the AV system.... It WILL have a 19" HD TV with a mast-top antenna, DVD, surround sound and a sub...

    Probably a more important reason to leave out the sump pump :D
     



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