Buying new boat - discount off retail / MSRP price?

Apr 5, 2016
71
Hunter 33.5 Grapevine, TX
Hi all,
Currently looking at upgrading from my current boat to a 2012+ Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 439, possibly a newer 449. Spoke with a dealer about possibly custom-ordering a new 449 right from the factory (so it would have the exact options I want) and asked him how much off the retail list price a buyer can expect. He of course said that there isn't much of a reduction off the list price buyers usually get, outside of buying an inventory boat that has gone unsold for a year or so, but of course he would say that. Anyone (who is not a dealer, LOL) have any good data points about how much one can usually negotiate off the list price of a new boat assuming it isn't a boat that has been sitting around for a while that the dealer really needs to move?

The dealer mentioned something about how the factory has seasonal incentives around boat show times or something like that, but that's the factory offering a reduction out of its margin, not the dealer out of his.

Thanks,
'Dubs
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,760
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Your dealer is right, boat shows are usually the best time to "make a deal." But your question is almost like: "How much should I lowball an offer on [insert item here]?" I think it's unreasonable to ask a forum, regardless of subject, a question like this. In life, we all get or make our own individual "deals" based on circumstances at the time. I am reminded of an oft-recurring boating forum post about "What is the right percentage to offer off asking price for a used boat?" Answers range from 10% to 50% until someone finally says something like, "Enough already...asked & answered...YOU and you alone are there and have to make the offer that works with that particular seller." No different than anything else in life. Good luck.
 
Oct 29, 2016
1,915
Hunter 41 DS Port Huron
I think that with a name like Rich, you should be offering something over list.....
 
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Gunni

.
Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
Determine what items on your wish list come from the factory and which are installed during dealer commissioning. 'Round these parts I would rather have a local tradesman install much of my nav, electronic, and HVAC systems because I want a local relationship for these perishables. You may be able to whittle down the factory price and negotiate the commissioning cost. Boats are not like cars, they are all custom. Justin is giving your great guidance, know the going rate on recent sisterships.
 
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Apr 5, 2016
71
Hunter 33.5 Grapevine, TX
Your dealer is right, boat shows are usually the best time to "make a deal." But your question is almost like: "How much should I lowball an offer on [insert item here]?" I think it's unreasonable to ask a forum, regardless of subject, a question like this. In life, we all get or make our own individual "deals" based on circumstances at the time. I am reminded of an oft-recurring boating forum post about "What is the right percentage to offer off asking price for a used boat?" Answers range from 10% to 50% until someone finally says something like, "Enough already...asked & answered...YOU and you alone are there and have to make the offer that works with that particular seller." No different than anything else in life. Good luck.
Thanks for the input everyone, very helpful.
Stu, you are making a bad assumption and then running with it with your response. Believe it or not I believe a dealer should make a fair profit on a sale. Some buyers will do tactics like send out a spec sheet to five different dealers and try to bid them against each other since a boat custom-built from the factory to be delivered a year from now, pre-sold, is the easiest kind of profit a dealer can make. I'm not trying to do that, what I am trying to do is determine what is a fair price for the dealer and what is a fair price for me. Right now the dealer I am working with apparently thinks buyer are suckers, pulling stuff like "The full list price for this boat is $490K, but the manufacturer has an incentive going for $20K off so just cut me check for $470K and we can live with selling it to you, but you have to do it today or you'll never find another deal like it and this same boat will cost you $100K-$200K if you wait six months." There is so much wrong with that statement it isn't even funny, but noticeably missing from it is any concession which comes out of his margin, and the intel I have been able to gather says that the list price usually bakes in a 15% profit for the dealer on the hull (on boats in the half million dollar range; higher percent for the more commodity boats), and substantially more on the options. It's nice that he is willing to pass along the incentive that doesn't come out of his pocket, but what he's describing is a great/poor deal, not a fair/fair one.
 
May 5, 2012
29
Beneteau 311 Milwaukee - McKinley Marina
RichW- We were at a boat show recently and had several follow up discussions with a salesman regarding new Beneteau 38 and 41 boats. He indicated that 10% of the list price was negotiable. I tend to be opportunistic so assumed that 10% meant 20% but I guess we won't know until we sign the deal. In our case we found that the new boats were very bare bones and we would be better off financially by buy a 3 or 4 year old boat with extras and equipment added by the previous owners. The cost of these materials and extras were far more than 10 or 20%. Hope it helps.
 
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Feb 20, 2012
22
Oday 25 Wilmington
Like cars dealers, Boat dealers can make money off you a few ways.
1. Hope you are a complete idiot, Rip you off completely.
2. Finance the boat for you.
3. Take your trade in and re sell it.
4. Accessorize and equip the boat/car for you.

Now, I have never bought a new boat, but I am a production home builder and get to watch people (try) and negotiate for their homes (300-500K). Most 'deals' are made when the builder has inventory that has sat for a few months. At some point it makes more sense to take a smaller profit, rather than risk paying out more interest on the loan. Dealers are looking to sell more 'units', and turn their money. If they won't budge of the price it means they really do think the boat will sell for more to someone else and they are willing to wait. I would imagine If you don't feel comfortable with something the salesman says, just be upfront and explain with logic why you don't agree. Remember, you have the power because you have the dollars, and the choice where to spend. Do your homework before you go, and don't get blinded by all the fancy bells and whistles (and free booze). If they still won't go down off the price, negotiate items. (Example: I just bought a new small outboard, already marked down 30% from MSRP. I asked for a flush kit and a few quarts of oil. The dealer was happy to oblige because he certainly gets that stuff much cheaper than I can)
 

IGGALN

.
Oct 27, 2016
7
Beneteau 45 New Buffalo
Thanks for the input everyone, very helpful.
Stu, you are making a bad assumption and then running with it with your response. Believe it or not I believe a dealer should make a fair profit on a sale. Some buyers will do tactics like send out a spec sheet to five different dealers and try to bid them against each other since a boat custom-built from the factory to be delivered a year from now, pre-sold, is the easiest kind of profit a dealer can make. I'm not trying to do that, what I am trying to do is determine what is a fair price for the dealer and what is a fair price for me. Right now the dealer I am working with apparently thinks buyer are suckers, pulling stuff like "The full list price for this boat is $490K, but the manufacturer has an incentive going for $20K off so just cut me check for $470K and we can live with selling it to you, but you have to do it today or you'll never find another deal like it and this same boat will cost you $100K-$200K if you wait six months." There is so much wrong with that statement it isn't even funny, but noticeably missing from it is any concession which comes out of his margin, and the intel I have been able to gather says that the list price usually bakes in a 15% profit for the dealer on the hull (on boats in the half million dollar range; higher percent for the more commodity boats), and substantially more on the options. It's nice that he is willing to pass along the incentive that doesn't come out of his pocket, but what he's describing is a great/poor deal, not a fair/fair one.
Let's be real. The US Sailboat market is not on fire right now. It's a buyers market. The tactic you describe above is a total 'used car salesman approach'. I'll bet with great certainty that that dealer grossed it up so he can peel back $20k and protect his margins while making it look like you are getting a deal. The hard sell is classic. Rich- you are way off on the margin for the new boat sale. We are good friends with one of the local dealers and he is a pretty straight shooter. The national sales management is a group of integrity challenged french guys that would sell there mom out. They are very desperate on the sailboat side right now- they have cut back dealer margins from the factory on US built boats so the dealers are looking for ways to build margin back in so they can survive. Deal away its to your advantage.
 
Dec 29, 2017
124
Beneteau Oceanis 411 Baltimore
Let's be real. The US Sailboat market is not on fire right now. It's a buyers market. The tactic you describe above is a total 'used car salesman approach'. I'll bet with great certainty that that dealer grossed it up so he can peel back $20k and protect his margins while making it look like you are getting a deal. The hard sell is classic. Rich- you are way off on the margin for the new boat sale. We are good friends with one of the local dealers and he is a pretty straight shooter. The national sales management is a group of integrity challenged french guys that would sell there mom out. They are very desperate on the sailboat side right now- they have cut back dealer margins from the factory on US built boats so the dealers are looking for ways to build margin back in so they can survive. Deal away its to your advantage.
Iggaln - wondering if the sailboat industry is still in the doldrums and if they buyer’s still have negotiating power? When I was at Annapolis show last week I had several dealers tell me that they were looking at late 2022/ early 2023 for delivery

Rich - did you purchase new and if so did you hit targets related to negotiating?
I’m thinking of buying and am torn between another used boat vs new - I can see benefits to both - some of the design elements of the newer boats are quite impressive.
I’m also working with a dealer who has advised that he would like to make my boat their dealer demo boat and they would compensate me. Anyone have an idea on what I can ask them for and potentially get?
Many thanks for any insight.