Buying 1985 Mac 25

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Piotr

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Dec 6, 2010
848
MacGregor 25 Rock Hall, MD
[Buying] Bought 1985 Mac 25

Gentlemen, after 20 years (well, 10, with last 10 drysailing) of sailing Catalina Capri 18, I decided (i.e. the Admiral let me) to buy a larger boat ( this was the first season I took my 10-year old son sailing and he LOVED it! Life is good...). I narrowed it down to 3 - an '86 Hunter 23 (pampered toy, about $1,800 too much, and a bit small), an '83 Catalina 25 fixed keel (3 hrs away, haven't seen her yet), and an '85 Mac 25 (at the boatyard 15 minutes away but no trailer). The Hunter asking price is $5,600, Catalina $4,500, and Mac $2,900 with winter storage and launch includedI'm leaning toward Mac mostly due to price and no major obvious problems. However, the locking pin hole is elongated by about 1/4 inch (no sign of damage) and the hull where the back of the keel is in the up position seams to have been repaired. The repaire seems to have been professionally sanded, but the material does not look like fiber glass - more like a car bondo. The repair does not leak . I have a quote to re-glass and sand it for under $500 and I think much less if I do the sanding. Mac showes signes of wear (the electric system works, but needs retrofit), but no obvious damaged areas. So, the first question is it a fair price?
Second question - by comparison, most of the original hardware on my Catalina appears to be of higher quality, and, frankly, some engineering on the Mac looks almost primitive by comparison. The first thing I'd like to change is the mainsheet system, then add a reefing system, then vang. Finally, update/upgrade lifelines (vinyl is all gone), cleats, TRY to restor exterior wood, and change the shroud/stay chainplates to turnbuckles. Other than IdaSailor abd BWY, are there any other sources for parts for Macs? And am I being too ambitious?
Thanks
 
Last edited:
Oct 16, 2008
512
MacGregor/Venture 25 Mesa AZ
Fiberglass work is actually very easy, and very forgiving. But bondo must go! It is normal for the lockdown hole to get elongated and again - easy to fix and not crucial for the amount you indicate. I got my Mac for price reasons and as such I am able to customize to my desires with the saving. It's easy to tow (I added a dual axle trailer with full side guides), which lets me go to the desert lakes in AZ or off to a week in the ocean or even to Mexico. My son and I love it.
 

caguy

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Sep 22, 2006
4,004
Catalina, Luger C-27, Adventure 30 Marina del Rey
Congratulations on the Mac. You also have the option of picking up a trailer which will also make storage cheaper.
Check Ebay and Craigslist for parts. If you put a search on ebay, you can opt to have an email sent to you when what you want comes up. People here are also very generous and helpful. Have you seen the keel? If so it is more difficult to find than expensive to replace. The wood can be made of mahogany, I did it on mine and with neutral varnish it looks just like teak but a whole lot less expensive. If the electrical needs work I would replace it with a new fuse switch panel and move it up to the plywood panel where the crank is located. You'll be much happier after getting it up and out of the bilge. I would also move the battery to the compartment under the cockpit. The vinyl on the life lines can be stripped of and if still in good condition be recovered with split vinyl tubing from West Marine. Makes a big difference in the boat appearance. Is there a porta-poti on board? If so there is a manual in the Mac 25 information section of this forum. If you need to replace bellows pump it can be ordered from sears ($25).
What kind of motor do you get with it? If no motor you'll want to dicker for a better price.
 
Oct 24, 2008
424
Macgregor 25 (1984) Wildomar, So. Cal.
I am certainly no expert, but I feel you need more information first on the Mac. How old is the rigging? Sails? Motor included or not?

I don't see too many vessels listed near your area (using Jaxed), but patience in this matter may pay off. I was able to acquire each of my Mac 25s (with trailer) for $1000 each - so $2900 for a "newer" one may be a bit high, IMHO.

In the case of my purchases, both were in need of some work.

Depending on your willingness to travel, there's a 1980 Mac 25 listed in FL for $745 (if he still has it). http://treasure.craigslist.org/boa/2087670335.html

And, for other enthusiasts, I noticed a 1974 Venture 23 in Little Rock for $400. http://littlerock.craigslist.org/boa/2096804387.html

Good luck, and enjoy whatever boat you choose.
 

Sumner

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Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
Personally I think the Mac is too high without a trailer. If you only have slip fees through the winter then they would probably add up quickly in the spring and summer unless you plan on slipping the boat anyway. The trailer could be a large expense unless you have the means and time to modify a cheap used one to fit. If you add in the trailer and repairs and some other items you could quickly be up to the price of the other two boats.

We live in a remote area of the west and travel 80+ miles just to get to a Walmart, so traveling to find the right boat at the right price was not a big deal to us, although we lucked out and found ours in Phoenix and a friend (former sailor) surveyed it for us and actually delivered it right to our door 400 miles from his home. I notice that some people in the east look at traveling more than 100 miles for something as being an obstacle to purchasing. I'd open up the range you are looking in to at least 500 miles (a days drive) and I'll bet your options open up a lot.

We also used Jax....

http://boat.jaxed.com/cgi-bin/boat....gregor&state=&ps=&pe=&ys=&ye=&so=d&submit=+GO+

...and is how we found our Mac (AZ), Suburban to pull it(AZ), our Zodiac dinghy (FL) and the outboard for the dinghy (CA).

No matter what boat you find I'd budget at least $1000 for items that you will need right away or over the first 6 months or so. Make sure it has a good, reliable outboard or you will be spending a minimum of $600 and up to find one.

Good luck,

Sum
 

Piotr

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Dec 6, 2010
848
MacGregor 25 Rock Hall, MD
Gents, thank you for replies. The boat comes with a Mariner 5hp outboard and a large gas tank with hoses, a working porta potti, and a set of two sails that have likely seen no more than one season of sailing. IF that's only a Jib (the other is definiltely a Main) I'll be buying a genny very soon. The rigging looks solid although some of the running rigging will need a replacement (mainsheet for instance). No soft spots on the deck or blisters anywhere. I inspected the keel and the pivot pin (from the outside) and did not see any obvious signs of wear or tear. I am anxious a bit about the swing keel after reading many horror stories (including here) about losing the keel and trying to manufacture/purchase a replacement.

The boat is being sold by a Marina near my house and they offered me winter storage for 1/2 price. My intent is to offer $2,400 winter storage included. My "home port" marina is in Rock Hall, so I would have to sail it for 6-8 hours down Chesapeake in the spring.
I calculated that I will need about $500 invested before I'll sail it the first time, and then about extra $500 to make it the way I'd like it. Luckily, I don't have to do it all at once. However, my point of view is that other more expensive boats would need SOME work too (except the $5,600 Hunter), so the ratio of money spent would remain roughly the same as the price difference. And the parts for Mac appear to be rather reasonably priced (like a $69 reefing system or a $89 boom vang).

As to driving long distances, I would love to, but with Christmas coming up I have very little time, and my wife only tolerates sailing (loves camping) so any time I spend on the boat is a compromise of some sort.
Anyway, thank you for your input!
 

Piotr

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Dec 6, 2010
848
MacGregor 25 Rock Hall, MD
OH, and just as an observation, the boats in the northeast (say, Virginia and up) seem to be at least 30%-60% more expensive than the boats elswhere. No idea why?
 
May 12, 2010
237
Macgregor 25 Southern Maryland
Piotr,

Where are you located? Are you sailing it to Rock Hall, or from Rock Hall south? Just curious, as I just motored my new-to-me Mac 25 from the Magothy River to Solomons. And the reason boats are more expensive here is -- in my opinion -- because everything is more expensive here, especially near the water.
 

Piotr

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Dec 6, 2010
848
MacGregor 25 Rock Hall, MD
Piotr,

Where are you located? Are you sailing it to Rock Hall, or from Rock Hall south? Just curious, as I just motored my new-to-me Mac 25 from the Magothy River to Solomons. And the reason boats are more expensive here is -- in my opinion -- because everything is more expensive here, especially near the water.
I'd be sailing it in TO Rock Hall from the north on the Bay. I agree with the reasons why the boats are more expensive, just a bit frustrated. Also, I'm trying to explain why this may be a better deal then somebody from midwest, south, or the west coast may think it is...Hopefully, this price difference will help me sell my Capri 18...
 
Apr 23, 2010
136
Venture 2-22 Oneida Lake
I think that $2900 is too high for that boat without a trailer. If you could talk the seller down closer to $2000-even, it would be a more reasonable deal...in my opinion.

Another thing to consider is the tiny size of that outboard. Someone may disagree with me, but 5 hp is a bit small for a boat this size. It will get you in and out of the dock in a well-sheltered marina, but it isn't going to do the greatest job running from bad weather or keeping the bow where you want it in heavy winds.

You might want to keep looking around if you can't get a better price on that Mac. I don't know far you are willing to travel, but there is a Mac 25 located in my area (near Rome/Utica, NY) for $2800. This Mac includes the trailer, sails, outboard, and a homemade roller-furling setup (PVC construction). When I saw the boat, both the boat and trailer were in good, ready-to-use condition. I didn't get to see the interior, though; so I can't speak for that or the condition of the keel trunk. If you're interested, I can PM you the contact information for the seller.

Prices for a Mac 25 in my area are generally between $2800 and $4000 (rarely), depending on condition and options. Every one I've seen for sale in this price range includes the trailer and an outboard...usually a 9.9 hp.
 

JVB

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Jan 26, 2006
270
Schock Wavelength 24 Lake Murray, SC
After sailing my MacGregor 26D for 2 years I sold it because I couldn't sail it in winds over about 12 mph. I replaced it with a Catalina 250 wing keel which is the successor to the Catalina 25. It was a very good move. Maybe the Mac 25 is better than the 26D ? It would have to be far better to compete with the Catalina 25 for handling and being fun to sail. You need to sail both boats in some real wind before you make a choice. If you can't do it now because it's Winter then wait. There will be other boats if those are gone.

Another thing to consider is that a 25 footer with a fixed keel is just borderline trailerable. A water ballast with retractable keel or centerboard will be much easier to load, tow, and unload.
 
Apr 23, 2010
136
Venture 2-22 Oneida Lake
Another thing to consider is that a 25 footer with a fixed keel is just borderline trailerable. A water ballast with retractable keel or centerboard will be much easier to load, tow, and unload.

Good point here. A 25' is definitely not fun (or really all that safe) to tow with something as small as a Chevy S-10 Blazer. Even though the 4.3 V6 handles the weight without a problem, the truck is too small for the size and weight of the boat and trailer. It was a white-knuckle ride bringing mine home. You would really need a 1/2 ton vehicle or bigger to tow a 3000-lb load.
 

Piotr

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Dec 6, 2010
848
MacGregor 25 Rock Hall, MD
Well, for better or worse I made an offer on Mac and it was accepted. We'll finalize the sale tomorrow. It seems that it was the biggest bang for the buck. SO... I'll be a frequent visitor here asking all kinds of silly questions. Thanks for all of the replies. BTW, I have a Ford expedition with a max trailering weight of 9,000 lbs (although my hitch is only rated for 5,000lbs). It's not an issue as the Mac comes without a trailer.
So, here are the first questions - there is NO styrofoam under the cockpit. If replacing, how much do I need?
After that, my biggest concern is wood. where can I find WOOD replacement for the hatch cover slides? I do not like the HDPE replacements.
Thanks
 

caguy

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Sep 22, 2006
4,004
Catalina, Luger C-27, Adventure 30 Marina del Rey
Congratulations.
There is no foam directly under the front half of the cock pit. You should find it behind the aft opening in the lazarette. You will find a half dozen or so blocks that fill the spaces between the lining and the hull.
You can get the block at Home Depot or Lowe's. They use them to stack and ship the small trailers that they sell in the parking lot. When I needed one the guy told me to help my self. Some here may remember, I made a mast float for my Hobie in the shape of a Viagra pill and painted it light blue.
I used mahogany for the hatch sliders and companion way rails. Covered them with clear gloss Cetol and they looked great. Don't use Cetol light unless you're partial to ugly yellow. I got my mahogany from the school that I work at. The wood shop gets regular donations of more wood than they can use. Check with your local High School wood shop and they may even make them for you. They are pretty easy to make. For what you would pay for new ones you can buy yourself a used table saw and router.
If you insist on buying them try calling Blue Water Yachts.
http://www.bwyachts.com/index.htm
 

Piotr

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Dec 6, 2010
848
MacGregor 25 Rock Hall, MD
Thanks, guys. I'm going to the boat this weekend to offload everything, make an inventory of what's good and bad, and also the fixes I have to make before I put her in in April, so expect more posts. I'll check on that styrofoam aft, too. For starters, I really hate that original mainsheet set up...
 

Piotr

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Dec 6, 2010
848
MacGregor 25 Rock Hall, MD
Well, after going over the boat, here are the preliminary results.
All of the cabin's cushions are permeated with a smell of gasoline. Apparently, the previous owner kept his half-full gas tank in the cabin. Foam has got to go (should I replace it with 2" or 3" marine foam and where's the best place to buy it?), but I washed the covers. Without a success. They are outside now. I will try to wash them this pm with a cup of white vinegar added. Or maybe a degreaser.

The boat has a very unwieldy way of raising and lowering a "heavy" outboard. Essentially a thumbscrew almost impossible to fasten when under way. Is that a standard equipment? Any upgrades available?

The styrofoam is, thankfully, where it's supposed to be.

The halyards are rigged to go to the cockpit, but the deck-mounted block for the jib halyard needs to be replaced.

The mainsail is new and has one reefing point and no means to use it (the boom was also converted, so I cannot turn it to reef. I guess I have to get a single line reefing kit from BYW (any suggestions on that?).

I need a new mainsheet, but the hardware is almost new, so I wait and see if I want to upgrade to a traveller system, or a simple fiddle block from a Catalina ( it would attach to a plate in the backstay).

The electrical panel is solid (wires are soldered) but it's missing 2 fuse and 2 switch lenses. Any idea where to get them?

IdaSailor guys will manufacture new hatch slides from teak for me for a price similar to their HDPE replacement. It should dress up the boat.

The front hatch seems to be kept closed by a rotating latch that is cutting a deep groove into the deck (from underneath). What is an OEM solution?
 

caguy

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Sep 22, 2006
4,004
Catalina, Luger C-27, Adventure 30 Marina del Rey
I replaced mine with regular 3'' foam what you want to pay attention to is the grade of foam. Here is a really good video on foam selection.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXihCTYK-RE&feature=pyv&ad=4512764890&kw=foam cushion

Youtube also has some videos on sewing your own cushions that are pretty helpful.

As far as your deck hardware is concerned there is a very reasonable mast base organizer plate available. Easy to install and very functional. They also have some mast hinge plates that are also relatively inexpensive (that is relative to anything with "marine" attached to the name.)
http://www.dwyermast.com/items.asp?...milyID=19&familyName=Halyard+Organizer+Plates
http://www.dwyermast.com/items.asp?cat1ID=40&cat1Name=Hardware&familyID=18&familyName=Hinges

The single reefing point was adequate for me. There should be a horn on you boom where the reef grommet is hooked.

Many Mac owners have upgraded to a traveler at the front of the cockpit. It is much easier to use and give you better sail shape. It also cleans up the back nicely.

If your electrical panel is still down in the bilge under the settee, you will want to move it to the panel that supports your winch under the companionway. WM has panels that are not too expensive. I buy my tinned wire from an industrial surplus guy for $3/lb.

You can make your hatch slides very inexpensively out of mahogany. They are not difficult to cut. For the same price as ready made you could buy yourself a used table saw and router. Keep for other projects or resell when done.

As far as the front hatch is concerned I never had a problem with mine. If the lip is worn I would simply build it up with chopped fiber glass and resin. You may want to add a small 1/4'' block to beef it up. You can also replace the hatch for a really nice hatch as Timo42 did. A little labor intensive but worth the effort.
http://forums.macgregor.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=723164&highlight=timo42 hatch
 
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