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Boom Internal Outhaul Question

Discussion in 'Ask All Sailors' started by Ward H, Jan 12, 2018. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    9,933 posts, 2,977 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    That’s not true, at least in a well designed system and a strap around the boom holding the clew in place. The clew stays directly on top of the boom at all times.
     


  2. Ward H

    Ward H

    Joined Nov 7, 2011
    2,212 posts, 459 likes
    Catalina 30 Mk II
    US Barnegat, NJ
    Very good points. I would rather have 5/16 line at the clutch/cam cleat and for handling but I hadn't considered the room needed for blocks to handle that size line. Using Warpspeed and striping the cover on the portion inside the boom would solve that problem.
     


  3. Ward H

    Ward H

    Joined Nov 7, 2011
    2,212 posts, 459 likes
    Catalina 30 Mk II
    US Barnegat, NJ
    A lot to think about.
    Can I re engineer the internal system to make it better? I doubt it. I do think I can copy the CD system.

    I see the advantages to the external system as long as the bits stay on top of the boom on the centerline. My concern is there appears to only be 9" to fit the bits into and still have room for adjustment.
    @Don Gillette did you have an issue with this? Do you have a tall rig or standard rig?
    If I go external maybe a double block with becket on the topping lift tang and a triple block on the clew ring. The line should end up going aft and I can take it inside the boom with the existing outhaul sheave and from there follow the normal path forward, then back to the cockpit?

    I do agree with jackdaw that with a clew strap the clew will stay pretty well centered to the boom. At least that is my experience with my O'day when I went with a loose foot main.

    I'm planning on opening up the boom tomorrow. Maybe I'll get some ideas when I see what is inside.
     


  4. Don Guillette

    Don Guillette

    Joined May 17, 2004
    1,933 posts, 98 likes
    Other Catalina 30
    US Tucson, AZ
    I see the advantages to the external system as long as the bits stay on top of the boom on the centerline. My concern is there appears to only be 9" to fit the bits into and still have room for adjustment.
    @Don Gillette did you have an issue with this? Do you have a tall rig or standard rig?

    Ward: I can only comment on what I know and have experience with. Speculating about sail trim things has never worked for me over the past 20 years. My rig is standard but the size of the rig doesn't matter - we're only dealing with about 8" of travel. I didn't mess with the internal system and my set up was bolt rope so I don't know how the external or internal system would function with a loose footed mainsail. I'd like to say the external set up would work in an efficient manner with a loose footed main but I can't.
     


  5. Ward H

    Ward H

    Joined Nov 7, 2011
    2,212 posts, 459 likes
    Catalina 30 Mk II
    US Barnegat, NJ
    I got the boom end caps off last week. I had sprayed the ends with PB Blaster, then wrapped the end caps in stretch wrap to keep the smell down. Boom is in the basement and the PBB was really stinking up the house. After soaking a couple of weeks they came off with some light tapping.
    I played with various block arrangements and came up with the setup below. I'm also changing the line entry and exit sheaves to BB sheaves. The bits came yesterday so I'll be playing with them over the next few days. I'm planning on use Samson Warpspeed II 5/16" line. Thinking about stripping the cover on the internal portion.

    I'm looking for BB sheaves to replace the reefing sheaves. CD sells mast head sheaves 2 3/4" they say will work but they are too big. Need 2" OD, 1/2" ID, 1/2" W. Still looking.

    First photo shows what I found inside the boom. Second is the arrangement I came up with.
     

    Attached Files:



  6. LeslieTroyer

    LeslieTroyer

    Joined May 20, 2016
    2,502 posts, 1,142 likes
    Catalina 36 MK1
    US Everett, WA


  7. Meriachee

    Meriachee

    Joined Aug 1, 2011
    3,190 posts, 1,065 likes
    Catalina 270
    CA Wabamun - on the orange ball
    If you call Garhauer and speak with Guido, the guy can and will make darn near anything, and it won't cost you a zilion bucks either.
     


  8. Ward H

    Ward H

    Joined Nov 7, 2011
    2,212 posts, 459 likes
    Catalina 30 Mk II
    US Barnegat, NJ
    I always go to Garhauer first. The bits I got for the boom outhaul are all Garhauer.
    I talked to Mark at Garhauer last week. The only loose BB sheaves were the "Mast Head" sheaves.
    I was also looking for BB sheaves for the mast exit blocks they make. He said they had the 1/4" ID metal sheaves which come in the mast exit blocks but the reefing sheaves were a strange size and they could not get them. It looks like the 1/2" ID is the problem.
    CD only has them in plastic. I'm still looking.
     


  9. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    8,748 posts, 3,746 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA


  10. sgoldman01

    sgoldman01

    Joined Apr 11, 2018
    6 posts, 0 likes
    Catalina 30
    Peenhonin US Waukegan Il
    I purchased the CD Internal Outhaul and I have been fighting with it for two years. @Don Guillette, I have looked all over for a good diagram of your External Outhaul modification. Can you point me to a good place to see what you di?

    Steve
     


  11. Meriachee

    Meriachee

    Joined Aug 1, 2011
    3,190 posts, 1,065 likes
    Catalina 270
    CA Wabamun - on the orange ball
    meriachee.wordpress.com/purchase-this
     


  12. Don Guillette

    Don Guillette

    Joined May 17, 2004
    1,933 posts, 98 likes
    Other Catalina 30
    US Tucson, AZ
    Steve: There is a picture of it on my website, www.sailtrimproducts.com. It's under "Don's Mod's". Unfortunately, for some reason -- the person that designed my site is no longer available to fix the problem - the picture can't be enlarges but you'll see enough of it to get the idea. Before the mod I had no way to adjust DRAFT DEPTH, which is the accelerator. The setting I was stuck with was like the broken clock before I fixed it. It was right for one point of sail and wind condition and wrong for all others. I think Ward H went your route and then gave up on it and converted to the external system. Maybe he has a picture he'd be willing to share.
     


  13. MikeO53

    MikeO53

    Joined Feb 11, 2017
    15 posts, 5 likes
    I replaced mine with the 10 to 1 Catalina Direct out haul and couldn't be happier and I did this at the same time as buying a loose foot main.
     


  14. Ward H

    Ward H

    Joined Nov 7, 2011
    2,212 posts, 459 likes
    Catalina 30 Mk II
    US Barnegat, NJ
    Don’s right. My “improved” internal system failed the first day. Rigged an out haul system worked but not well.
    This year I’m going with Meriachee’s design.
     


    Meriachee likes this.
  15. Meriachee

    Meriachee

    Joined Aug 1, 2011
    3,190 posts, 1,065 likes
    Catalina 270
    CA Wabamun - on the orange ball
    6:1 with some nice shiny Garhauer blocks. Simple, out of the way, and nothing hidden.
     


  16. Ward H

    Ward H

    Joined Nov 7, 2011
    2,212 posts, 459 likes
    Catalina 30 Mk II
    US Barnegat, NJ
    Do you have a record of what size/series blocks you used?
     


  17. John Nantz

    John Nantz

    Joined Jul 1, 1998
    2,958 posts, 39 likes
    Hunter Legend 35
    US Poulsbo/Semiahmoo WA
    Ward - question: did you test how the blocks work before installing them in the boom?
    If they worked then, do you have any idea why they didn't work when installed?
    Are so many sheaves really needed?

    Frankly, after looking at the picture with all the block setup that would go inside the boom, and knowing the route to the mast then via turning blocks to the cockpit with more sheaves, I would have been surprised if it worked all that well. Blocks like the setup in the mast have a way of twisting and if there are other line(s) in the boom one of them can prevent a block from rotating and causing a twist between the two block, more friction between one line and another, and only god knows what ...

    Personally, I would not want an external anything on the side of the boom because that's a snag point. As pilots say, "Trouble comes in bunches." *Stuff* happens.
     


  18. Meriachee

    Meriachee

    Joined Aug 1, 2011
    3,190 posts, 1,065 likes
    Catalina 270
    CA Wabamun - on the orange ball
    Yes, there are actually three blocks in play, the "top" is a 25-18US double with shackle and becket. The boom part of the outhaul line attaches to the shackle. The lower block is a 25-17US which is a double block with shackle. I used one of the single blocks left over at the mast base as a turning block to route the control line back to a cleat. That would be a 25-13US. The angle of the line there is better run through a single than it would be with a triple at the base.
    The purchase is actually 5:1, not 6:1 as stated earlier. Even so, there is more than enough power in this arrangement, and the line doesn't move all that far to move the sail. The working range for the clew of the main is about a foot, way, way more than when the bolt rope was in play. It's so easy to power it up or dump it off without touching any other trim.
     


  19. Ward H

    Ward H

    Joined Nov 7, 2011
    2,212 posts, 459 likes
    Catalina 30 Mk II
    US Barnegat, NJ
    Sure did and it tested well at home. I first set it all up just as it would be inside the boom. Then I moved it into the boom and tested it again. Still worked great. I think on the ride back to the boat a block twisted or got hung somehow. Once the boom was on the boat I found that it somehow jammed.
    I’ll post what I used after I get home. Trouble getting the photo to load now.
     


  20. RitSim

    RitSim

    Joined Jan 29, 2018
    17 posts, 2 likes
    Beneteau 411
    Irish Ayes II US Branford
    I did this job on my former Catalina 30. Harbor Freight sells an impact screwdriver that was key to disassembly. Check the rotation direction, place the bit in the screw head, hit it with a good hammer, watch it turn out.
     




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