Boat Possibly Declared a Total Loss 1987 Hunter 31

Oct 20, 2016
56
Hunter 31 Seattle
The question is not "how much will the repairs cost vs the value of the boat?". That almost never works out and it is irrelevant anyway. The question is "how much will it cost to get back on the water?" Will repair this boat be cheaper than getting a new, comparable boat?
I think it would actually be cheaper to get another Hunter 31 that's in very good condition vs fixing what I have. If I got a boat that had good adhesion of the barrier coat to fiberglass and the mast, compression post, and engine were good, it would be better to throw my boat away and buy that one. Once a boat of this age and value has a couple of major issues, it's not worth fixing in my opinion. I think a lot of people go down the rabbit hole of spending good money after bad....I have to make a decision based on what's best for going forward, not on what I've already lost.

I'll keep considering my options. Most likely this will take some time to really play out. The boat has already been sitting in the yard 2 weeks now, and nothing has happened. Insurance is slow, and the boatyard is slow to get estimates to insurance for work. It's not something that happens quickly.
 
Oct 30, 2011
542
klidescope 30t norfolk
A boat in the 34-38 range takes you out of the Toyota corolla,civic range and puts you into the chevy suburban range the civic is like a trailerable v21 or McGregor 23 or 26
 
Jan 18, 2016
782
Catalina 387 Dana Point
The Chevy of the seas: Catalina 34 or 36. (Some would think Hunters are in the same category)

Or, find a H31 with a dead engine but good rig. Mix/Match parts till you get a good boat. Not a good idea if you're paying a yard to do everything.
 
Apr 11, 2009
46
Hunter 31 Thunder Bay
Speak with Charleston Spar. If you used your own standing rigging I think you could do quite a bit less than 15 thou. The extrususion would be a bit different so you would need to change your deck plate but the balance would be the same.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Here's a question : would marine insurance likely pay for a Pre-existing flaw or condition in the boat??? My sense is most of them would insure it back to the condition that it was that when you bought it. They could quite rightly argue that you bought/got what you paid for Anyone know for sure ??
 
Jun 28, 2016
334
Hunter 23.5 Paupack, PA
@Jackdaw and many other owners know a thing or two about quality boats. My only contribution is where/how a boat was used. A Canadian YouTube blogger I follow recommended staying away from those low price, southern, salt-baked charter boats when shopping. In theory at least, northern fresh water lake boats represent a better value. They sit on land for months at a time, no salt, lower sun angles, and cooler. But you still gots to be careful.
Good luck ! Gotta go disassemble my gear case. Just know it never ends. New boat = new problems.
 
Apr 8, 2010
1,942
Ericson Yachts Olson 34 28400 Portland OR
Unfortunately your new-to-you boat was built to a very light duty specification when new. Age has not made it stronger. But here you are, and you need to deal with this.
Starting from scratch with a new spar section is too expensive -- for most boats, actually -- and there are doubts raised about repairing the present mast... Perhaps you need to talk to a real spar maker about a repair kit.

Check with Buzz Ballenger in CA about a custom repair kit to overlay the spar in the bad section. His company has saved many a mast that was damaged in one high-stress area but just fine all elsewhere.
http://www.ballengerspars.com

As for your search for the "Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic of sailboats? Something cheap, reliability, and easy to fix. Cruiser only, never going more than 2 days trip from the marina."
(Big Sigh....)
Note: You limitation to "cruising" has no bearing on a need for basic quality.
The older the boat the more that original quality and engineering matter. That's why 30 year old H__ters are cheap and getting cheaper. These boats sailed fine when new, but their maintenance "honeymoon" was about a decade (two at most) before they started revealing the shortcomings built in that made them wonderfully inexpensive in the first place. I have helped with some systems maintenance in an early-80's H-31. The owner eventually had to put in a lot of his time and money to upgrade things that were either missing or woefully under-spec'd in the first place. The next owner did buy it cheap and benefited from the upgrades! :)

(Boat sailed just fine on a 12 knot day, as designed, however! But whether living aboard for a month's vacation, or just trying to stop leaks, every part of the boat illustrated why it was inexpensive when new and more so when used. )
Good luck, and continue to examine all the options.

Loren
 
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Apr 8, 2010
1,942
Ericson Yachts Olson 34 28400 Portland OR
Here's a question : would marine insurance likely pay for a Pre-existing flaw or condition in the boat??? My sense is most of them would insure it back to the condition that it was that when you bought it. They could quite rightly argue that you bought/got what you paid for Anyone know for sure ??
Good point. I do know of a buyer of a 38 foot sailboat that did have a survey stating that the engine was in good condition... and it threw a rod on it's first major cruise. His insurer did pay for most of the new engine, but not all. Unfortunate situation, but not nearly as bad as it might have been. Just another reason to get a full survey when buying any boat, at any price point. (Strictly IMHO, of course!)
:(
Loren
ps: thanks again for all of your helpful input on these forums and best wishes for you "social status upgrade" ! :)
 
Oct 20, 2016
56
Hunter 31 Seattle
Insurance does not cover faulty repair or wear and tear. Basically, they only cover damage. For example, if you hit a bridge they will cover the mast replacement. If you ship the boat across country and the mast is damaged, they will cover replacement. This is why I think I'm screwed on insurance money. Not really looking to commit insurance fraud here, and I'll be honest with them. It's possible that the mast buckled while I owned it and was sailing, and that's possibly my only hope for getting insurance to help with fixing the boat. I've talked with the rigger and previous owner, they didn't notice any of these issues before. My other hope is taking the surveyor to court. If this does become an issue of total loss, I'd need a lawyer. I'm not wanting to go that route, but the previous owner, broker, and surveyor are totally unwilling to help with anything.

I think it's all up to the surveyor they send out, and what he thinks about the issue, and what insurance wants to cover. Insurance wants to see an estimate first, then they send a surveyor out, then they determine what to do. It'll likely be weeks more before I know what's going on.

I should've learned my lesson when I bought cheap old motorcycles. They're cheap for a reason. I thought I was getting a good deal on the Hunter, but now that I've started digging into it, I see it would've been much smarter to get a well maintained solid boat for $50k+ rather than getting a boat for $19k and dumping a ton of money into it. A Hunter 31 can be a good value, but only if the previous owner kept up on everything and slowly replaced all the poor quality parts. My boat was obviously neglected, with many parts as original (some rigging, engine hoses, etc.).

Might be really tough to find another Hunter 31 and swap everything over, and that boat could have issues of its own as well.

I'll keep working with riggers, boatyards, and insurance now, but I'm not too optimistic. I may end up going the floating condo route if repairs are too expensive, at least I wouldn't feel it's a 100% loss. Who knows, maybe a used spar will pop up one day.
 
Oct 20, 2016
56
Hunter 31 Seattle
Good point. I do know of a buyer of a 38 foot sailboat that did have a survey stating that the engine was in good condition... and it threw a rod on it's first major cruise. His insurer did pay for most of the new engine, but not all. Unfortunate situation, but not nearly as bad as it might have been. Just another reason to get a full survey when buying any boat, at any price point. (Strictly IMHO, of course!)
:(
Loren
ps: thanks again for all of your helpful input on these forums and best wishes for you "social status upgrade" ! :)
Not just a full survey, but from someone good. My engine survey was very cursory, looks like he spent about 15 minutes on the boat, but charged like $300! Engine has been good so far, it runs easily for hours at a time at around 3000 rpm, no problem. I've only put about 20 hours on the engine, and it's had no issues. It actually runs a bit cool it seems to me, like 165 degrees at the thermostat housing at cruising speed (I changed the coolant and thermostat).

For a future survey, I'll definitely be sure to find a better boat and engine surveyor. I'll add a rigger to the mix, and pay them to climb the mast as part of it. Pretty spendy to do all that, probably around $1500 at least. I've already put together a fairly extensive checklist of items to look for next time. Kinda crazy to me that the surveyor didn't have a similar checklist. He paid almost zero attention to the condition of the mast step and compression post, he made 0 effort to look for weep holes or drainage at the base of the compression post, both of which are easily determined. I could have done a better job than my surveyor it seems.

Is it possible to get adhesion testing of the bottom paint during a survey? I still haven't done a full assessment of mine, but the boatyard is saying that originally there was a grey paint over smooth gelcoat, and that the grey paint was never prepped properly. It would be good to know on these older boats if someone has done barrier paint, and how thick the existing paint is. If I'd known during the survey I needed a 100% strip of the paint, I could have negotiated down $5000 to cover the strip and barrier paint. I think the broker and previous owner were shady tho, they were waiting for somebody like me to come around to hustle. Anybody w/ knowledge of boats would've passed on this Hunter. This is the type of boat you have to give away for free, too many issues to make it worth it.

The guy before me was really a dummy. Didn't address any of these issues, but he added $$$$ electronics, and a high end racing headsail. I'm thinking about selling that sail, it's in excellent shape, likely about $4000 new.
 
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Oct 26, 2008
6,045
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Many of us have probably spent far more on our boats than they are worth on the market. It's only worthwhile when we would rather have our boat than anything else that we can afford. But it is a trap. I continuously wonder how far down this path I'm going to go.

It sounds as if you have lost all interest in this particular boat. I would agree that it isn't worth spending any more money on it in that case. It seems odd that you mention high dollar electronics and a racing sail. By all means, salvage and sell the marketable items. Your loss may be far more palatable. If you haven't spent any more money on it than the purchase price, you may be lucky. I agree, it will probably be less expensive to start anew and abandon the idea of revitalizing this boat. Next time, though, you should probably be looking at much newer models, as you seem inclined not to be very accepting of a compromise in the condition of the boat. Even at that, you will need to be wary of abuse. I'm guessing that you would need to spend a minimum of $75 K to $100 K to acquire an acceptable boat that will meet your standard, rather than the $20,000 that you risked on a project boat.
 
Oct 20, 2016
56
Hunter 31 Seattle
Boats have a way of becoming a money pit. I think lots of people don't know when to call it quits. Boats have a useful life, and they should be thrown away at a certain point. I believe my boat has reached the point where good parts should be salvaged, and the hull/mast tossed in a landfill. I was just hustled by the previous owner and broker into paying them good money for a boat with negative value.

http://www.peninsuladailynews.com/n...art-of-man-in-port-townsend-and-life-savings/

I've gone through this w/ cars and motorcycles, I've bought things I think I can fix on the cheap, but as I dig into them I find issues that end up costing more to fix than the vehicle is worth. Some people are willing to take on projects, but I did not want a project boat. I'm ok with doing routine maintenance (e.g. new sails every 10 years, new standing rigging every 8 years, new batteries/alternator every 5 years, etc.), but when you start needing to do these very high dollar repairs, the cost of an $80k loan payment is likely less than the cost of maintenance on an older boat w/ no payment.

I've slowly moved towards newer things, I believe in the long run they are a better value. Spending $100k on a boat that has a solid 15 years left in it w/ no major needs seems much better to me than a 30 year old Hunter for $20k which needs at least 20k in maintenance, and is basically at the end of its useful life. Something I should've thought through a bit more. Lesson learned!
 
Oct 20, 2016
56
Hunter 31 Seattle
Many of us have probably spent far more on our boats than they are worth on the market. It's only worthwhile when we would rather have our boat than anything else that we can afford. But it is a trap. I continuously wonder how far down this path I'm going to go.

It sounds as if you have lost all interest in this particular boat. I would agree that it isn't worth spending any more money on it in that case. It seems odd that you mention high dollar electronics and a racing sail. By all means, salvage and sell the marketable items. Your loss may be far more palatable. If you haven't spent any more money on it than the purchase price, you may be lucky. I agree, it will probably be less expensive to start anew and abandon the idea of revitalizing this boat. Next time, though, you should probably be looking at much newer models, as you seem inclined not to be very accepting of a compromise in the condition of the boat. Even at that, you will need to be wary of abuse. I'm guessing that you would need to spend a minimum of $75 K to $100 K to acquire an acceptable boat that will meet your standard, rather than the $20,000 that you risked on a project boat.
The previous owner added an Ullman sail he claimed was $3500 (I'm confirming w/ the sailmaker now), radar ($1000), touchscreen electronics ($2000), AIS ($500), Webasto heater ($2000), refrigerator ($1000)......not sure where his head was at on all this, all while ignoring very basic and pressing issues.

I bought the boat because it was well equipped, all that fancy stuff is what sold me. I figured if the boat had good bones and was well equipped, it was a great bargain. Next time I'll be sure to focus on everything, not just the fancy upgrades.

I assumed the mast was ok because he made a point to say the mast was pulled 3 years ago. Apparently the last rigger didn't think much of the spreader issue, and nobody noticed that the weep was totally clogged. Not sure how there wasn't water in the mast at the time, I can't imagine a new source of water suddenly appeared. I'd say too many people are inattentive.