Boat Lost Entering Harbor

Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
Thanks Kings, that chart section really helps. So in the classic definition the Redondo Beach Pier WAS the lee shore. You want your approach to King Harbor to be powered-up and controlled to take you clear of a lee shore. Yet they stumbled in downwind, mainsail down, wrapped jib, no engine. I don't think a typical stern outboard would have saved them by the time the long vid begins. I see two scenarios that would have saved them. Anyone want to guess?
 
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Jul 27, 2011
4,990
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
Thanks Kings, that chart section really helps. So in the classic definition the Redondo Beach Pier WAS the lee shore. You want your approach to King Harbor to be powered-up and controlled to take you clear of a lee shore. Yet they stumbled in downwind, mainsail down, wrapped jib, no engine. I don't think a typical stern outboard would have saved them by the time the long vid begins. I see two scenarios that would have saved them. Anyone want to guess?
Well, they did not die; so, save the boat I presume? The skipper should have called for assistance (tow) immediately the boat lost her power to maneuver against the lee shore. But-- did he have a hand-held VHF and was there even time for that (a rescue)? The best alternative to what happened would have been, IMHO, to attempt to gybe and go ashore on the sand beach to the south of the pier. But at that time, you'd have to accept that the boat would probably be lost and you still might be tumbled in the surf. Although it could get another minute or two to await a hoped for rescue. Before that, however, I'd pitch the anchor if it was accessible.
 
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Feb 17, 2006
5,274
Lancer 27PS MCB Camp Pendleton KF6BL
I looked at the video again. In the beginning of the long version, the main was out of its track. The tack and the head of the main looked like they were still in the track. So, was he actually heading into the harbor and took his main down first? That defies logic in what I was taught: main up first, down last. Also, it looked like the headsail was wrapped around the forestay. I think that is what everyone was looking at. Hard for me to see the status of the sheets. But still, where was his radio?
 

Gunni

.
Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
I am sure that every one of those folks thought they were going to die. I did as I watched the breaking wave and roll into the pier.

Yes to Brian, there was presumably a point where they decided to take down the main sail. The question is why.
 

Rick D

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Jun 14, 2008
7,132
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
I suspect the main was down involuntarily. Martins usually sail back in on their mains. But, that's a WAG.
 
Mar 26, 2011
3,402
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
It's not evident what happened prior to the boat losing the power of her jib. If you look at the deduced path, it's likely the boat was doomed when she blew much past Mo (A) w/o making the turn; no way the boat with a crippled jib and makeshift sheeting would be able to come up sufficiently at that point. I think what we saw was likely "unfixable" by that time.

View attachment 134919
But why could they not have wore ship, a few minutes earlier, and headed back out on a beam reach? That is where the mistake was made. They let themselves run out of room.
 
Jun 21, 2004
2,532
Beneteau 343 Slidell, LA
The events leading up to the beginning of the video would certainly give us a better idea of what could have been done to avoid the loss of the boat. All we get to see is a vessel out of control for approximately 3 minutes in rough seas, onshore wind that was estimated at 30+ knots, mainsail out of track and out of control, and a jib that is partially wrapped with no control, with a lee shore (pier) approaching fast. Without the main to power them to weather , further offshore , they were doomed. With only the jib partially available causing a lee helm, combined with stiff onshore winds and seas pushing them to shore, the outcome was inevitable. As King stated, even if they had jibed earlier, they would have landed on the beach on the other side of the pier. That would have been safer than crashing into the pier. The only way out, in my opinion, was to drop anchor immediately and to sort things out with the sails and rigging or possibly calling for help while anchored. In the 3 minutes that we saw, I don't think there was enough time for the harbor patrol to get on scene and get a line secured. Real scary stuff; truly amazing that everyone escaped unharmed. Best decision that they made was to have pfd's on. As others mentioned, that's a difficult harbor approach under the given conditions without full sails or lots of horsepower.
 
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Jan 19, 2010
12,362
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
There is another entire thread on this accident here

https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/tough-night-in-redondo-beach.184528/

And in that thread, one of the posters had some first hand knowledge. The skipper was experienced... but the main halyard had parted and they lost the main. Not sure about the head sail sheet. It seems that they were sailing on main alone and when they lost the main, the head sail sheet got snarled when they deployed. Or maybe that sheet also parted. I don't know.

I really felt for these people. Thing can go wrong in a hurry. Like falling dominoes.
 
Jul 27, 2011
4,990
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
The Santa Monica Basin Buoy recorded on March 30 steady winds up to 25 kt, gusts to 31 kt, at between 17:00 and 20:00 local time. Sunset was at 19:12. Inside SM Bay, the winds would likely been down some to perhaps steady at 20-22 kt, gusts to 25- 27 kt. I know that many racing yachtsmen would not see those conditions particularly "threatening" even in a 24-ft sport boat. But, one has always to think about the "what ifs"; i.e. to maintain acute situational awareness as JD has pointed out. It just seems plain they were not prepared to face an unexpected total loss of sail power and the consequences thereof in conditions which would be life threatening. A common theme I've noticed running through the accounts of sailing disasters at sea, especially in the racing crowd, is a reported high level of "experience" held by a skipper and crew. You also see this theme in diving (SCUBA) accidents. A "highly experienced" diver drowns b/c of some or other thing he or she did that greeted them with the unexpected. A high number of races raced or number of dives logged without ever meeting life threatening events that were resolved by adequate preparation should not stand as sole "evidence" of "experience." IMHO, a highly experienced skipper would not be out there in those conditions w/o a charged-up VHF radio on his belt, and would not have failed to radio a Mayday the moment he lost control of the boat near a lee shore in high winds and sea toward the end of daylight.:yikes: If those things were not done here, then I hope they all chalk it up to "experience."
 
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Gunni

.
Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
Yeah, the boat could handle the wind, but not the breaking wave. The water shoals up to 6 feet where they rolled. If they had lost the ability to fly the main sail they then simultaneously lost the ability to make their port - it was a close reach approach and they couldn't make that on their jib. With their main lost their options were to Gybe back out, stay beam reach and call for a tow. The decision to not stay out, to wear ship as Thinwater says, was huge. They stopped sailing the boat. I suspect that unreasoning panic had swept the crew. Broken gear and the wind howling in your ears.

In the final moments of their control you see them turning dead down with only a partial jib. With CE forward they were locked into lee helm and the inevitable loss of control. That was where their last option slipped away. They were in 10 feet of water, throw the anchor. The recovery boats were on scene within 5 minutes.
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,362
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
A high number of races raced or number of dives logged without ever meeting life threatening events that were resolved by adequate preparation should not stand as sole evidence of "experience."
I hear what you are saying KG... try to imagine everything that could go wrong and work it out in your mind beforehand.... but I also expect there is another variable. If you only sail once or twice a year, then over a 20 year period, you might only go out 20 to 40 times. The "experienced" sailor might sail 40 times in a single season... so the odds of eventually meeting that unexpected chain of events increases with experience. Stay out long enough, what can go wrong will.

But I'm not saying we should not try to learn from this guy's misfortune. So an evaluation as to why that didn't happen would be valuable.
  1. Someone should have been trying to get the head sail under control long before they got close to the pylons. Why didn't that happen?
  2. Since a police boat showed up very quickly, I suspect they did call for help... it just didn't get there fast enough. At what point should they have made the call?
  3. On another thread on this same accident I read that the main halyard had parted... so having a backup halyard rigged could have potentially saved the boat (and the race).
 
Jul 27, 2011
4,990
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
  1. Since a police boat showed up very quickly, I suspect they did call for help... it just didn't get there fast enough. At what point should they have made the call?
Someone ashore could have made the call for them.
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,362
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
Someone ashore could have made the call for them.
True... especially if that someone was a sailor. It was like watching a slow motion train wreak. Any sailor on shore would have known that things were not going well for that boat, long before it got that close to shore.