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Bedding Deck Hardware With Bed-It Butyl Tape

Discussion in 'Musings With Maine Sail' started by Maine Sail, Apr 5, 2010. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. Maine Sail

    Maine Sail Moderator

    Joined Feb 6, 1998
    10,867 posts, 699 likes
    Canadian Sailcraft 36T
    US Casco Bay, ME
    There are two options, the one already mentioned, and wrapping an extra long "butyl cone" around the screw. The biggest problem with screws and wood is in properly compressing the Bed-It Tape, between the fasteners, without bowing the wood between screws or stripping the screws out of the deck. Balsa or foam are not known for their ability to hold a screw..

    The optimal course of action would be to replace the wood screws with machine screws, if you have interior access to the underside of the wood. You can also stand on the wood to allow it to displace the excess Bed-It Tape to prevent further creep/bleed..

    Bed-It Tape is specifically formulated to have minimal creep or what is called "cold flow", but this requires the fitting to be properly torqued in order to displace the "excess" product from under the fitting. Screws do not always have the strength to do this and wood can bend/deflect and not fully displace the product.

    That said I have bedded plenty of mahogany & teak with Bed-It Tape, it just requires the proper technique to achieve the desired result..
     


  2. Hayden Watson

    Hayden Watson

    Joined Apr 5, 2009
    661 posts, 159 likes
    Catalina '88 C30 tr/bs
    US Oak Harbor, WA
    Is it appropriate to use Bed-It for "structural fastenings" such as genoa tracks and chainplates?
     


  3. Maine Sail

    Maine Sail Moderator

    Joined Feb 6, 1998
    10,867 posts, 699 likes
    Canadian Sailcraft 36T
    US Casco Bay, ME
    Yes, so long as the fittings are through bolted, Bed-It Tape acts only as a sealant. Our genny tracks are still leak free and the boat was built in 1979 and has been across the Atlantic multiple times, to South America as well as up to Alaska, Newfoundland and Labrador... I re-bedded the chain plates about 7 years ago, using Bed-It Tape, and they had zero signs of leaking and were still in perfect condition.
     


    Hayden Watson likes this.
  4. Hayden Watson

    Hayden Watson

    Joined Apr 5, 2009
    661 posts, 159 likes
    Catalina '88 C30 tr/bs
    US Oak Harbor, WA
    Thanks. That was what I thought and I have rebedded all of my chain plates with it but on a different forum someone said that it was a bad idea and that 4200 should be used for "structural" fastenings.
     


  5. jviss

    jviss

    Joined Feb 5, 2004
    3,125 posts, 412 likes
    Tartan 3800
    US Westport, MA
    I think it's better than the other products, because it stays sticky and flexible. No sealant or caulk should be considered part of the structure. If the hardware is properly attached mechanically, as it "works" under load, as it inevitably will, it will remain sealed with the butyl rubber.
     


  6. GonzoF1

    GonzoF1

    Joined Sep 20, 2015
    101 posts, 1 likes
    Navigator 4200 Classic
    US New Bern, NC
    I need to dredge this thread up again. I need real advice.

    My portlights leaked and I am in the process of reinstalling them. I am, of course, considering butyl tape, but need to know if it will work in this application. We have a 42 Navigator with Bomar S616MBSS. The hole in the hull was cut pretty poorly and the inside of the hull is lined with 3/8" wood that is now rotted. So, of course, I need to replace the wood and reseal it. The poorly cut hole leaves varying gaps of up to 5mm around the edge of the frame itself. If I fabricate new wood for inside the hull that fits around the frame more closely, there will then be a gap that is the thickness of the hull that needs filling most of the way around the portlight frame. If you aren't familiar with this portlight, the outer trim ring/frame pushes in from the outside and six tabs bend and screw to the inner wood. Then the inner frame and window are pushed from the inside and screw to the wood. There are no screws that go all the way through and pull the sections together.

    I was considering filling the gaps with butyl tape, but I do worry that because tabs are all that hold it to the hull, gravity will eventually take its toll. I mean, butyl tape, as far as I know, isn't an adhesive and I wonder if the tabs, simply, are enough to keep in in place.

    I am posting a few pictures of the boat to understand the position of the portlights and of the bench work trying to show the gaps and how they attach. The wood is a pattern of the fiberglass hull hole from the factory.

    Please help. I am headed to the boat this Friday to fix this because right now the hole is just covered in plastic and is a mess just waiting to happen. Especially with all the rain we have had. :)

    THANKS!!
     

    Attached Files:



  7. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    8,313 posts, 3,468 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    @GonzoF1 sounds like you are looking for a caulk adhesive filler. Never have I seen butyl used in this way.

    Reading the description it appears the holes were not cut with enough precision for the port light design. Two ideas come to mind.
    1. Clean out the rotten wood. Sprary the port light frame with mold release. Position port light in the hole and fill the gap between the sound wood and port trim with thickened epoxy using the port light trim as the mold. When the epoxy hardens the mold release will allow you to remove the trim. Then clean up the area and install the port light. Install with 4200 or 5200 if you need the adhesive properties based on how the port light is attached.
    2. Cut a wood patch to install in space where rotted wood is removed. Attach I place against hull with epoxy. Using trim cut the port light hole in the wood patch. Install with 4200 or 5200 if you need the adhesive properties based on how the port light is attached.
     


  8. Maine Sail

    Maine Sail Moderator

    Joined Feb 6, 1998
    10,867 posts, 699 likes
    Canadian Sailcraft 36T
    US Casco Bay, ME
    #1 Not all butyl tape is the same and there are literally hundreds of different formulations. Bed-It Tape was specifically formulated & tested for marine use and it is not really a "butyl" tape but rather a hybrid product.

    #2 That is the wrong application for Bed-It Tape or any other "butyl" because those tabs are simply not adequate enough to provide the sealing force required to compress the tape the way it is needed.

    #3 I would begin by fixing how the builder screwed the pooch so you can start with minimal gaps.

    #4 I would suggest a polysulfide such as BoatLIFE Life-Calk rather than a polyurethane or silicone for that application. They will eventually leak again so you want to be able to remove them.
     


  9. LeslieTroyer

    LeslieTroyer

    Joined May 20, 2016
    2,343 posts, 1,030 likes
    Catalina 36 MK1
    US Everett, WA
    Butyl is used all the time to “glue” car windows in place. Comes in either a tube or tape form.
    Les
     


  10. GonzoF1

    GonzoF1

    Joined Sep 20, 2015
    101 posts, 1 likes
    Navigator 4200 Classic
    US New Bern, NC
    #1 - That is what I thought, however, I did end up ordering the Xfasten brand off Amazon in the interest of time. Unfortunately, your store to buy the Bed-It brand did not offer expedited shipping and I kinda need it to complete the project this weekend. But since you are not recommending it, I guess it doesn't matter anymore :) I will get some now anyway for future projects.

    #2 - See, now, that is what my thought was too and I had plans to use Sikaflex 291, but so many people sang the praises of butyl tape, I thought it was the right move.

    #3 - That project is going to have to wait.

    #4 - I guess I will change my plan. Thanks.
     


  11. Maine Sail

    Maine Sail Moderator

    Joined Feb 6, 1998
    10,867 posts, 699 likes
    Canadian Sailcraft 36T
    US Casco Bay, ME
    Bed-It Tape ships USPS Priority and almost always goes out same day or within 24 hours, unless it is a weekend...
     


  12. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    8,313 posts, 3,468 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    I've received Bed-It-Butyl in less than 7 days.... Usually same week when ordering on Monday.
     


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  13. Mickstr

    Mickstr

    Joined Jun 1, 2007
    180 posts, 23 likes
    O'Day 322
    US Mt.Sinai
    I've bought it from Maine Sail 3x in the last 10 years, and always got it within a few days, at most a week. I guess if you don't plan ahead and need it fast, you do what you gotta do. I'd rather support Maine Sail and wait a few days...
     


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  14. GonzoF1

    GonzoF1

    Joined Sep 20, 2015
    101 posts, 1 likes
    Navigator 4200 Classic
    US New Bern, NC
    One final question(s): Over the weekend, I installed the trim ring outside of the hull using Life Caulk. When I went to install the inner frame, it was not a tight fit at all and would leak for sure. The issues I have are too complex to try and type and have y'all understand it. And TBH, I don't know what went wrong, but what I am considering is using Butyl tape to fill these gaps. It will not be compressed like between a cleat and the deck, but it would be used more like window glazing. Rolled into strips and used to fill a gap up to 1/8". I would press it into the gap with something like a popsicle stick. If I stayed relatively on top of checking it, will it work in an application like this?

    Thanks.
     


  15. Maine Sail

    Maine Sail Moderator

    Joined Feb 6, 1998
    10,867 posts, 699 likes
    Canadian Sailcraft 36T
    US Casco Bay, ME
    It is worth a try. I would suggest cramming it in with silicone kitchenware...
     


  16. GonzoF1

    GonzoF1

    Joined Sep 20, 2015
    101 posts, 1 likes
    Navigator 4200 Classic
    US New Bern, NC
    Will it hold up exposed to weather like that?
     


  17. Maine Sail

    Maine Sail Moderator

    Joined Feb 6, 1998
    10,867 posts, 699 likes
    Canadian Sailcraft 36T
    US Casco Bay, ME
    Bed-It will but it may get a bit dirty.. Again, not the ideal situation for it but its worth a try if the proper fix is not within reach..
     


  18. GonzoF1

    GonzoF1

    Joined Sep 20, 2015
    101 posts, 1 likes
    Navigator 4200 Classic
    US New Bern, NC
    Could it be kept up by applying an oil or mineral spirits to it a couple of times a year? I worry about it drying out and failing quickly.
     


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  19. Maine Sail

    Maine Sail Moderator

    Joined Feb 6, 1998
    10,867 posts, 699 likes
    Canadian Sailcraft 36T
    US Casco Bay, ME
    With Bed-It Tape there is no need. It holds up to UV extremely well. Part of the formulation..
     


    jssailem likes this.


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