Battery/Engine Off - Get Low Oil Press and Ticking

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Bluetrees

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May 30, 2015
7
Catalina 310 Groton
(See post #19)

2003 Catalina 310, Universal M-25XPB
Following routine shutdown after running the engine I get an intermittent Low Oil Pressure light and ticking coming from the engine compartment, I think it is the fuel lift pump.
The low oil pressure light and the ticking occur simultaneously for roughly 10-15 seconds, stops, does it again. This lasts for about 15 minutes or so and goes away. Again, does this with the key out, battery off and following use of the engine.
Any thoughts? Questions?
We are planning for a cruise next week. Should I be worried?

I believe another member had a similar issue. Can't find that thread.

William
 
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Bluetrees

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May 30, 2015
7
Catalina 310 Groton
Hey Don, I believe the fuel lift pump is 12v. When I heard the ticking I opened the companionway engine cover and tried to find the source of the ticking. I could fell it most at the lift pump if I've identified it correctly.
It's odd that the low oil pressure light and the ticking are simultaneous going on and off at the same time.
 
Jake N Eggs

Jake N Eggs

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Jun 2, 2011
347
Hunter H33 Port Credit Harbour, ON.
It sounds like there is a connection to the ignition circuit with the key off. If you turn the key to the on position do you hear the same clicking and oil light? If so, look for a corrosion connection between the battery positive and the ignition on wire. It could be at the back of the switch or somewhere in the harness. Possibly a corroded plug in connection on the harness. Sometimes a corroded connection will pass current when it is warm and not when it is cold. Dampness can also be a contributing factor.
 
Don S/V ILLusion

Don S/V ILLusion

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Sep 25, 2008
7,096
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
I'd follow up on Jake's lead. If you remove power from the pump, that should confirm his theory. If it still runs, it's haunted.:)
 
Stu Jackson

Stu Jackson

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Feb 26, 2004
22,770
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
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Bluetrees

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May 30, 2015
7
Catalina 310 Groton
Stu, thanks for the links. My employer is restricting some of them so I'll check them out tonight.
A question though, is the harness replacement cause/issue with all Catalina's or a certain range of years?
Wm.
 
Stu Jackson

Stu Jackson

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Feb 26, 2004
22,770
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Bluetrees said:
A question though, is the harness replacement cause/issue with all Catalina's or a certain range of years?
Click to expand
Almost ALL production boats used them. Not only Catalinas. They still are doing it, all of them. It was a production issue: easier to install plugs at the ends of the wires between the engine and the cockpit panel and the engine than to mechanically/electrically connect them. If you continue through that first link, there are other posts on that same subject in that topic, explaining that the wiring is usually OK, it's the connectors that fail and why.
 
D

Donnybrook

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Apr 2, 2011
185
Catalina 27 Niceville, FL
I don't know when Catalina quit using the trailer plug harness, but I believe it was prior to 2003. You say that it does this with the battery switch turned off. That leads me to think that something that feeds directly from the battery is back feeding to the engine control panel. I would look at anything that feeds directly from the battery, like bilge pump, stereo memory, battery charger, or anything added by a PO.
 
Capt Ziggy

Capt Ziggy

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Jun 4, 2004
23
Catalina 310 Tolchester
William I bought a new 2002 Catalina 310 Hull #190. I have Catalina's original electrical wiring diagram on my boat. I will scan and post it or email a copy to you. This will greatly help you trouble shoot the wiring of the pressure switch, ignition key, water temp switch, and 3 post Sonalert horn. Note: It is quite unique to our boats. Also the "Sonalert" horn selected and installed in my boat is 24 Vdc for rated dB, thus it is not as loud as it should be when used in our 12 volt dc systems.
 
KZW

KZW

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May 17, 2014
831
Catalina 310 #307 Bluewater Bay, FL
Capt Ziggy said:
Here is Universal 25 MPXB wiring diagram showing oil pressure, water temp switches, key switch with glow plug hold to heat, etc. Let me know if you have any questions.
Click to expand

Where are the grounds for these wires? The PO painted my engine, all wires are silver!!!
 
marchem

marchem

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Nov 16, 2012
1,038
Catalina 310, 2000, #31 31 Santa Cruz
Stu Jackson said:
Engine wiring harness connector plugs. Have you replaced them based on our and Maine Sail's suggestions? You have a short in your wiring somewhere and that's usually where it happens.

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5078.msg35943.html#msg35943

There's also Maine Sail's write-ups: http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=135558 and http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/universal_wiring_harness_upgrade
Click to expand
Stu, the C310 doesn't have the gummy bear connectors.
 
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Benny17441

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May 24, 2004
7,131
CC 30 South Florida
Sounds like a short to me. In older boats, with years of hull flexing, the wiring harness can get chaffed causing shorts or power interruption to the switch and gauges. A visual inspection will usually show any chaffing which mostly happens at bends around sharp fiberglass corners. It seems like Catalina had some problems with trailer connectors so I would check those first .
 
marchem

marchem

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Nov 16, 2012
1,038
Catalina 310, 2000, #31 31 Santa Cruz
I'm pretty sure that unless the pre heat solenoid or starter solenoid is shorting out the only source of 12V in the control pod is at the ignition switch. I would suspect it's failing. Easy to test for 12V on one terminal, and (hopefully) 0V on the other two. Measure to a good ground, if I remember correctly, fat black wire next to fat red wire (12V source). Of course if there's a short somewhere in the engine compartment or between things that could also do it, as well as a PO modification. Time for careful troubleshooting.
 
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Bluetrees

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May 30, 2015
7
Catalina 310 Groton
many thanks for the input and the wiring diagram.
I may not be able to investigate on the boat for about a week.
I can say that I replaced the ignition keyswitch, it did not remedy the issue described but the old one would turn all day long without stops. Works now.
The harness wiring in the control panel is terminated at a terminal block. I inspected each connection for stray conductors in case that was the problem. No apparent shorts.
What is notable (odd) is that the low oil pressure light AND the clicking at what I suspect is the lift pump happen simultaneously. On together, off together, then going away after about 15 minutes. All the while the engine is off, key removed, battery selector switch off.
 
LeslieTroyer

LeslieTroyer

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May 20, 2016
3,014
Catalina 36 MK1 94 Everett, WA
Did some PO install a big ass capacitor / choke after your switch to "fix" a noise issue????

Les
 
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Bluetrees

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May 30, 2015
7
Catalina 310 Groton
LeslieTroyer said:
Did some PO install a big ass capacitor / choke after your switch to "fix" a noise issue????

Les
Click to expand
No, actually the previous/original owner is still at our club. He has not done anything with regard to wiring.
However your question does bring up a valid point in that I had the chartplotter replaced and an electronic windex installed two years ago. Perhaps during that install something was disturbed in the wire bundle at the helm station but I have to say again that the battery selector is off and nothing is hard wired to battery yet the symptoms occur for about 15 minutes. Thanks Les
 
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Bluetrees

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May 30, 2015
7
Catalina 310 Groton
OK folks, you're gonna love this.
We sailed Shelter Island, NY last week.
I was going to use the time off to investigate further. After running the engine and turning it off the symptoms started again as expected. I recalled that one time I closed the cover and the banging interrupted and stopped the ticking (lift pump) and low oil pressure light so I got out a large flat screwdriver and an adjustable for a hammer. I placed the screwdriver blade on the 90° elbow at the top of the lift pump and gave it a little tap. The ticking and the low oil pressure indicator stopped.
I repeated this all week after each time I ran the engine. It worked.
To be clear and to correct myself, although the key is out the battery does need to be on either 1,2 or all for the symptoms to occur.
So is this a solenoid or other that's in the lift pump?
 
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LeslieTroyer

LeslieTroyer

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May 20, 2016
3,014
Catalina 36 MK1 94 Everett, WA
Sounds like you have two issues 1) your lift pump is getting weak and should be replaced. 2) you need to investigate the wiring. With the switch off the only thing powered should be bilge pumps, battery monitors and radio preset power. Trace all your wiring and see where you are bypassing the switch
 
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