Registered users don't see ads


Bad weekend for Sails.

Discussion in 'Mid-Size Boats' started by pateco, Mar 12, 2018. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. pateco

    pateco

    Joined Aug 12, 2014
    2,102 posts, 551 likes
    Hunter 31 (1983)
    US Pompano Beach FL
    So, we had a race yesterday that turned into a visit from Demon Murphy.

    On our way out to the start, my mainsail blew out a horizontal seam between the 1st and 2nd reef points. We considered bailing on the race, but it was a gorgeous day, so we reefed to the second reef point and entered anyway.

    Then on about our 5th tack headed to the windward mark,a section of the UV sun cover on the jib began to separate from the leach, and became a 4' flag in the wind for the rest of the race.

    We eventually were DNF'd on the last leg of the race for falling more than 30 minutes behind the rest of our class. It was still a great day on the water, and we got a lot of tacking practice as we fell further and further behind the fleet LOL.

    My question is, as these were used sails when I got them, I don't feel like investing a lot of money in repairs. How hard is it to restitch a mainsail? Can it be done by hand or will it require a sewing machine? Also, I have the same question regarding the UV sun cover on my jib.

    The fabric on both seems to be good, it is just the stitching that let go.

    Any suggestions or tips and tricks would be greatly appreciated.

    On our way out before Murphy's visit.
    2018-03-11 15.57.10.jpg
    Headed towards the first mark with reefed main.
    2018-03-11 12.15.03.jpg
     


    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
  2. cb32863

    cb32863

    Joined Jun 29, 2010
    842 posts, 97 likes
    Beneteau First 235
    US Lake Minnetonka, MN
    At this point, I would say that those sails are done and you need to get new ones. They are just going to come apart someplace else. I know there are those that think old used sails are perfectly fine but, not in my experience.
     


    Will Gilmore likes this.
  3. John Tubb

    John Tubb

    Joined Feb 14, 2017
    679 posts, 147 likes
    O'Day 25
    US Guntersville, AL
    Love my new Precision Sail 115 jib, didn't know how bad my old sails were till I got this new one!
     


  4. pateco

    pateco

    Joined Aug 12, 2014
    2,102 posts, 551 likes
    Hunter 31 (1983)
    US Pompano Beach FL
    I have a quote from them. Which sail version did you get. 300, 400, 500, or Challenge? And why did you chose the one you got?
     


  5. HMT2

    HMT2

    Joined Mar 20, 2014
    559 posts, 125 likes
    Hunter 31
    US Shoreacres, TX
    Chip,
    PM me I might have an old main I can let go of cheap!
     


  6. John Tubb

    John Tubb

    Joined Feb 14, 2017
    679 posts, 147 likes
    O'Day 25
    US Guntersville, AL
    Just checked I went 300.
    I got the quote then called them and worked through what I wanted in the sail and what they recommended based on my sailing area and needs. They never tried to up sell me or push for the expensive option. My old O'Day 25 is our first sail boat and we are still learning so I'm not sure sinking a ridiculous amount into it is a good idea as I will never take this boat off the lake.

    I called several lofts and did research here and on material and learned Precision uses the same material as the more expensive lofts that are also recommended. Precision is Canada and it does take awhile to work thought the design, then cut and shipping, defiantly not fast. They do a custom design around your boats measurements and send you a review design first. There are several in our marina with Precision so I knew they would come out well.
     


    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
    pateco likes this.
  7. HMT2

    HMT2

    Joined Mar 20, 2014
    559 posts, 125 likes
    Hunter 31
    US Shoreacres, TX
    I have had to restitch the sunbrella cover on my genoa. That is not very expensive.
     


    pateco likes this.
  8. pateco

    pateco

    Joined Aug 12, 2014
    2,102 posts, 551 likes
    Hunter 31 (1983)
    US Pompano Beach FL
    I may try to do that myself. Since they are older I was thinking of using boded polyester thread instead of Tenara/PTFE thread. There is a huge price difference. Any thoughts?

    Bonded Polyester Sewing Thread 16oz. (#138 16oz. - White)

    What weight thread would you use for sail and/or UV cover?
     


  9. SailormanDan

    SailormanDan

    Joined Jan 24, 2009
    404 posts, 76 likes
    1981 Cherubini Hunter 27
    US Belle Haven Marina, VA
    Sailrite has a PDF that shows what thread to use with what materials:
    http://www.sailrite.com/PDF/Thread and Needle Recommendations.pdf
    I've been using V-69 and a #18 needle without issues in my LSZ-1, looks like you should be able to use that in your home machine.
    Mu bigger problem was fitting 40 ft. of sail in a 20 ft. room. :biggrin:
    LongSail-ShortRoom (4).jpg LongSail-ShortRoom (6).jpg
     


  10. pateco

    pateco

    Joined Aug 12, 2014
    2,102 posts, 551 likes
    Hunter 31 (1983)
    US Pompano Beach FL


  11. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    5,899 posts, 2,064 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    Chip...
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     


    LeslieTroyer likes this.
  12. pateco

    pateco

    Joined Aug 12, 2014
    2,102 posts, 551 likes
    Hunter 31 (1983)
    US Pompano Beach FL
    I meant what size thread. LOL
     


  13. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    5,899 posts, 2,064 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    OH...why that is a thread of a different color....
    Not sure what you can find local. Sail Rite will have something to buy on line. Key (as I understand) is in strength of the cloth and the regularness (provably a made up word. think evenly spaced stitches) of the stitch. You want to look at the cloth to be sure it will not just rip out. Space your stitches with enough cloth to hold seam. UV is the killer of thread. You will want sail thread not twine.
     


  14. SailormanDan

    SailormanDan

    Joined Jan 24, 2009
    404 posts, 76 likes
    1981 Cherubini Hunter 27
    US Belle Haven Marina, VA
    That PDF I linked to shows V-69 as a pretty all-around thread for most projects, which is probably why I have it. (It's been too long since I thought through what thread to use) If I had to sew anything by hand, I would be using the V-69 thread that I have on hand and a needle much like John shows above. I did get a Speedy Stitcher, but haven't tried it out yet.
    According to Sailrite, if you take your time and don't hurry the machine (and your wife lets you), you can sew sails on a home machine with a heavy-duty needle, but I don't have experience with doing that.
    Reading back through your original post, it sounds like you have a lot to do stitch length-wise, but might be worth it if you are not ready to spring for new sails.
     


  15. Manly

    Manly

    Joined Jan 3, 2018
    45 posts, 12 likes
    Hunter 31
    Odyssey US St. Petersburg
    Hi Pateco,

    Sorry to hear about your sails. It may be they are towards the end of their life, or it could be they have some left. One way to tell is to examine the sail by going over it and at various places taking some sailcloth between the thumb and forefinger of both hands and gently try tearing it. Wherever it rips easily, that place of your sail is toast. The problem with this test is that it can put rips all over your sail if its close to the end of its life. However, if you can tear it with your fingers, it's only a matter of time before it blows out on the boat.

    There is a store here in St. Petersburg called the Masthead (https://mastheadsailinggear.com/) that sells used sails and ships all over. Last time I checked about a month ago they had a main in good condition for a H31 for about $600.

    I recently had tearing on my main along the leech but I was sailing without the battens in. Which was partially due to another problem: my batten pockets were ripping. And a number of sail lugs had broken off. I took the mess to our local sailing loft (Advance Sails) and they fixed everything for $150.

    When I bought the boat last year I took my jib to the Masthead sail loft because it had problems too. They charged me $300 to re-stich the suncover and fix a few tears. I think they charged me a high price.

    I've done sail repairs myself on a sewing machine in the past, but had to buy a "walking foot" and a heavy duty sewing needle. It was fun.

    Let us know what you end up doing!
     


    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
    pateco likes this.
  16. SFS

    SFS

    Joined Aug 18, 2015
    1,458 posts, 431 likes
    Hunter 31
    US Tampa Bay
    @Manly - I just want to make sure I draw the correct conclusion. You went to Advance for the repair on the main because you were unwilling to go back to Masthead after your previous experience with them, is that correct?

    FWIW, I have also found Paul's quotes to be high.
     


  17. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    8,994 posts, 2,280 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    Bad weekend for sails? Sounds like a GOOD weekend for the sails.

    After living a useful life WAY past their use-by date, they died at sea, doing what they were intended to do. And nobody got hurt, nothing else broke, and they failed in a place that did not cause its own drama.

    Image if that blew up in Govt Cut in a blow with traffic all around.
     


  18. DrJudyB

    DrJudyB

    Joined Jun 25, 2004
    185 posts, 116 likes
    Corsair F24 Mk1
    003 US San Francisco Bay, CA
    You might try a stitching awl for this kind of hand stitching.
    I like the ones like this. I've had mine for over 40 years.

    [​IMG]

    You have two options for thread:
    V138 with a #20 needle. V-138 is a very large diameter thread, and will withstand UV exposure longer than smaller diameter thread It will last perhaps 4-7 years in southern California sun. The only problem with V-138 is that it's too large to use in a home machine, because it's hard to get the top thread tension set correctly It's just barely feasible to use V-138 in a Sailrite machine. V-138 works fine in a hand stitching awl or a heavy duty industrial sewing machine.

    Use V-69 thread with a #16 or #18 needle. It's plenty strong enough for the job but not quite as UV resistant due to the smaller diameter. It'll last 2-4 years in southern California sun. It can be used in a home machine. However, you'd need a really good vintage pre-1960's home machine with metal cams and metal gears to stitch through 4-6 layers of dacron and 2-4 layers of sunbrella. Buy plenty of spare needles because you're gonna break 'em in a home machine.

    Judy B
     


    justsomeguy likes this.
  19. Manly

    Manly

    Joined Jan 3, 2018
    45 posts, 12 likes
    Hunter 31
    Odyssey US St. Petersburg
    @SFS I did think Masthead was high for repairs, though reasonable for used sails. I tried Keith at Advance because I'd heard good things and wanted to give him a try. I was very impressed with his work and if anything, thought he undercharged a little. Will definitely be taking any sail repairs to him in the future.
     


  20. SFS

    SFS

    Joined Aug 18, 2015
    1,458 posts, 431 likes
    Hunter 31
    US Tampa Bay
    Thanks for the reply. I'll keep that in mind. I know a lot of folks that swear by Masthead, and it's nice to have alternatives.