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Backstay for a Hunter 216

Discussion in 'Day Sailers' started by H216sailor, Jan 3, 2019. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. chuckwayne

    chuckwayne

    Joined Mar 20, 2004
    1,493 posts, 48 likes
    Hunter 356 and 216
    US Portland, ME
    my 216 looks like that too, and I've seen the original order form from the PO so I know that's from the factory. Check garhauer - I'm not sure if they have ratchet blocks but they would be substantially less money. I'm guessing it's a 2.5" sheave
     


  2. Crazy Dave Condon

    Crazy Dave Condon

    Joined Jun 8, 2004
    7,008 posts, 704 likes
    -na -NA
    US Anywhere USA
    some spinnaker A syemtrical were added at the factory while others were sold as kits to include hardware, sail and pole. I only had one order for this as an aftermarket. Wood blocks were encapsulated into the hull for attachment of the blocks during the construction process of the boat.
    When the small boats were being built, I strongly suggested fiberglass; however the decision was to go with ACP. The boat was designed with no back stay as previously mentioned. The black block noted is not for top of the mast but just to be sure, I will ask @Dave Groshong what that block designated 827266 is specifically for. In addition, Dave do you have the installation drawings for the Spinnaker set. If so can you post them to the H 216 boat information under downloads. Paul Walsh was great to have posted photos of installed blocks on the boat under owner additions. The manual only references Spinnaker Line Chart in the manual.
    If any of the wood blocks ever became wet and disintegrated, there are ways to repair as you can get inside the boat to repair from the back

    I introduced this boat and from the inception, no back stay was even being calculated in the mix nor do I know of any after thought or market of anything like that. I saw a mast head for sale on the forum store but believe that is for a different boat. I will also ask if there is any reference by the forum store to suggest adding a back stay to this boat as the thought of this is highly not suggested.
     


  3. H216sailor

    H216sailor

    Joined Jun 26, 2018
    29 posts, 9 likes
    Hunter 216
    CT Branford
    Hi Dave,
    Thanks for the reply. I wasn't aware there was wood put into the hull as an attaching point for the blocks. I was going to add an epoxied piece of wood or metal as a backing plate, but seems like washers might do it if I mount them in the correct place.

    While doing some research, I found an ad on Sailing Texas for a Hunter 216 with a square top main, backstay with flicker, and masthead spinnaker. Picture shows the standard spinnaker but the ad said the boat has a masthead one as well. The boat has sold, but if anyone knows the pervious or current owner, I'd like to talk to them
     

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  4. Crazy Dave Condon

    Crazy Dave Condon

    Joined Jun 8, 2004
    7,008 posts, 704 likes
    -na -NA
    US Anywhere USA
    Private message so we discuss backing on boat before any mistakes are made. I would ask that you report back to forum what is discussed. Include location and phone which is not kept as that is my policy
     


  5. H216sailor

    H216sailor

    Joined Jun 26, 2018
    29 posts, 9 likes
    Hunter 216
    CT Branford
    Hi Dave, I appreciate your willingness to help, but with this boat, I'm not sure anything you could possibly do to the boat would be a mistake. I understand full well what the boat was designed for, but I'm looking to squeeze a little more performance out of this boat. I went ahead and ordered the new masthead with backstay attachment and have an extra set of shroud tangs with through bolt I was going to use as running back stay attachments. They'll both sit in my basement for a few more months until the spring when I start to get the boat ready.

    The first project will be pulling the keel which I've had arranged to have pulled by a forklift. I'll replace the pin, and possibly fabricate a wedge to fit behind the keel when lowered to help with the banging when going upwind in waves. Next I'll make my mast and deck attachments, rig everything up and go sailing.

    I plan on documenting everything with lots of pictures and perhaps some videos and post them here on this forum. This is the 8th sailboat I've owned ranging in sizes from 18' to 40' and just about every one required at least something to be rededded, repaired, or replaced. I don't consider myself a professional, but this ain't my first rodeo either.
     


  6. Crazy Dave Condon

    Crazy Dave Condon

    Joined Jun 8, 2004
    7,008 posts, 704 likes
    -na -NA
    US Anywhere USA
    My concern is the construction of the boat and we can sgreee to disagree. If the boat had been built out of fiberglass which is stronger then I would not be so concerned about your safety. You will need to distribute the load a lot which is the key. I am still concerned the affect if any on the boom and sail which might need to be shortened. When the day comes to sell, be advised you probably will not get as much with the boat being modified
     


  7. Hunter216

    Hunter216

    Joined Sep 22, 2018
    109 posts, 26 likes
    Hunter 216
    CA Kingston
    Dave
    You mentioned above in this thread
    “Wood blocks were encapsulated into the hull for attachment of the blocks during the construction process of the boat. ”

    Would it be possible for you to post measurements and/or description of where the wood blocks are for the 216 hull in the Boat info section for that boat.? The info would be there for reference for anyone who needs it in the future.
     


  8. Hunter216

    Hunter216

    Joined Sep 22, 2018
    109 posts, 26 likes
    Hunter 216
    CA Kingston
    H216
    I know that you are planning on using running backstays but I had started a little investigation on the flicker option and thought I would share my thinking just for fun.

    I believe this is the Sailing Texas ad you referenced
    http://sailingtexas.com/201701/shunter216109.html
    The photos are a little fuzzy when you zoom them but the flicker is easily seen on the bigger photo and the bottom one. The middle photo is clearly the stock mainsail as the foot of the sail extends to the aft end of the boom unlike the shorter foot and more straight leech (less roachy sp?)of the aftermarket main, but I think I can see a line extending up from the stern that might be the backstay however I can’t see the flicker in that photo as it’s too blurry.

    The other reference photo is the one I posted above; you can see the topping lift and how much roach there is on the stock main. It would seem to me that the flicker would need to be quite long to get the slackened backstay out of the way.

    Would a really long flicker be prone to failing easier than a short one? I don’t have any firsthand experience using a flicker
     


  9. Hunter216

    Hunter216

    Joined Sep 22, 2018
    109 posts, 26 likes
    Hunter 216
    CA Kingston
    The “block” I linked above is a piece of moulded plastic that fits the aft side of the mast where it enters the cabin top. Once the mast is up and the shrouds are adjusted you pull the mast stepping “pin” (the one at the cabin top opening), place the “block” against the mast and while pushing towards the bow reinsert the pin. This seems to have an affect of removing some of the flex below the shroud attachment point, thereby “stiffening” the entire mast.
     


  10. Crazy Dave Condon

    Crazy Dave Condon

    Joined Jun 8, 2004
    7,008 posts, 704 likes
    -na -NA
    US Anywhere USA
    @Dave Groshong

    Would you please post the diagrams as to the wood blocks location in the Hunter 216 or ask Joe if he would do that.

    Yes I see what appears to be a backstay but cannot tell how done nor if there is any structural issues unless I actually see the boat. I am not savvy to new terms such as flicker and so on as that is after my time but from the description of gear sounds like the owner spent way too much for my blood.

    Why don’t you call the broker to see if he is willing to tell you the new owner’s name and contact that person see if he could send some photos to you. Explain why you are asking. I would too like to know. You are taking the investigative approach which I respect. Keep us informed if you are able to locate that boat
     


  11. Ron20324

    Ron20324

    Joined Jan 22, 2008
    6,624 posts, 766 likes
    Beneteau 323
    US Annapolis MD
    As always, why not get the new owner to join SBO?
     


  12. Crazy Dave Condon

    Crazy Dave Condon

    Joined Jun 8, 2004
    7,008 posts, 704 likes
    -na -NA
    US Anywhere USA
    @Ron20324
    It is going to be difficult to locate the new owner without the name unless he joins recognizing himself or the broker who handles boats from all over will advise who it is. I do not have the time to search with what is going on in my life helping others plus chores on this mountain which is why the suggestion for others to search.
    I would be interested in that backstay attachment as to that and the integrity of the hull itself. In many cases though a lot was spent on that boat which most will not spend.
     


  13. Hunter216

    Hunter216

    Joined Sep 22, 2018
    109 posts, 26 likes
    Hunter 216
    CA Kingston
    I went to check my boat today and took some measurements of the spinnaker blocks. The photo with the dock cleat is the reference point I used for the measurements.

    The aft block centre is 19-1/2 inches from the stern and the forward one is 91-1/2 inches.
    I checked under the seating area and there are NO backing plates on my 2004 hull for these blocks or for that matter the docking cleats. I initially assumed they were just secured with screws perhaps through the area where the hull and topdeck were fused together but there may be pieces of wood between the inner layer of glass and the outer layer of Luran (where the foam would be) based on Crazy Dave's comment that wood blocks were used in strategic areas during construction. Hopefully
    Dave Groshung will post the info in Boat info so that we will know where they are for future reference.

    IMG_4482.JPG
    IMG_4487.JPG
    IMG_4489.JPG
     


  14. H216sailor

    H216sailor

    Joined Jun 26, 2018
    29 posts, 9 likes
    Hunter 216
    CT Branford
    Thanks Hunter216! I’ll use your measurements to mount my blocks. I’ll drill a small pilot hole and if I get wood shavings I’ll them with screws like yours. If I get foam I’ll go through and use a bolt with a backing plate and perhaps over drill the hole and fill with plexus first to keep everything sealed up tight. It’s going to me a few more months until I get working on my boat so everyone will have to stay tuned for further updates.

    On a side note, your boat is very clean and white. What do you use to clean it? I find the regular soap and water as recommended by Hunter doesn’t get all the dirt but I’m afraid to use any cleaner do to the fear I’ll melt my boat.
     


  15. Hunter216

    Hunter216

    Joined Sep 22, 2018
    109 posts, 26 likes
    Hunter 216
    CA Kingston
    Sounds like a plan and I will await spring (if you can wait that long <grin>) to hear your results. I have a commitment from the webmasters that they will add a section to "Boat Info" for each vessel that will FAQ link message threads so users can look things up specific to the hull they have.

    I can't really take any credit for the condition of the hull that I have as I just acquired it late last fall but when I viewed the boat in the water the day I bought it and brought it home the PO had just mopped the topsides off and there was no sign of a mooring cover. He seemed pretty particular and asked that I remove my shoes before stepping aboard and said that it was his and his wife's normal routine (barefoot) so I think it has been well taken care of for most if not all of it's life.

    I raised the issue of Luran hull maintenance in the forum before so for you as a special favour <grin> I will just post a link:

    https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/hunter-216-acp-hull-maintenance.193991/
     


  16. Crazy Dave Condon

    Crazy Dave Condon

    Joined Jun 8, 2004
    7,008 posts, 704 likes
    -na -NA
    US Anywhere USA
    I am waiting for a response whom I was referred to. Hold your britches till I get a response
     


  17. Hunter216

    Hunter216

    Joined Sep 22, 2018
    109 posts, 26 likes
    Hunter 216
    CA Kingston
    Not quite sure what’s got you so agitated???

    It’s clear that you have asked Dave Groshung to post the info when he can. NO ONE in this thread is pressed for time or unwilling to wait or unable to work on their boat if he doesn’t.

    Your a valuable, knowledgeable resource here but I don’t appreciate this type of response and I doubt that I’m alone on that point.
     


  18. Crazy Dave Condon

    Crazy Dave Condon

    Joined Jun 8, 2004
    7,008 posts, 704 likes
    -na -NA
    US Anywhere USA
    Not upset. I just need time to get the information. I sent an email to the owner of the forums for that information who used to work in all phases at Hunter. In my neck of the woods hold your britches means give me time
     


  19. Hunter216

    Hunter216

    Joined Sep 22, 2018
    109 posts, 26 likes
    Hunter 216
    CA Kingston
    Yep, pretty common phrase that one.

    What I fail to understand is why you feel that anyone was pressuring you to get information? And to be clear the information source for the wood block locations is now Dave Groshung NOT you.

    H216sailor had asked questions and since I was at my boat I took some measurements and sent them to him.

    That's all that happened!

    Yes I referenced your name as the initial source of the "wood block during construction" info but I certainly didn't imply that YOU and/or Dave G were/are dragging your feet.

    H216sailor has made it abundantly clear that he isn't going to start this project until next sailing season so there is/was never a rush for the info in the first place!
     


  20. Crazy Dave Condon

    Crazy Dave Condon

    Joined Jun 8, 2004
    7,008 posts, 704 likes
    -na -NA
    US Anywhere USA
    I sent a personal email to Dave for any diagrams but he referred me to another party whom I know. If I get a response I will post but please do not mention I get upset. If I ever do you will know.

    As for trying to get information now to all of you, I am going to take time off in the near future for myself as no one knows how much I try to help others to include out of state assisting on repairs/training, research, phone calls, typing letters behind the scenes.
    In one case an insurance claim was going south until I got involved and the owner got paid in full and thanked me