Axle less (No through axle) Trailer

Apr 26, 2015
660
S2 26 Mid On Trailer
Anyone out there running an axle less trailer? Which units are you running, Timbren, Flexiride or a Flexiride knock off?

I'm starting the design process for a trailer, I'm building, for our S2 8.0C project. Not having axles under the keel lowers the boat more than 4" (max flex of springs with long shackles) on bent or dipped cross member trailer and probably closer to 6" on a tandem axle (pun intended) trailer. With some changes to the cross members I can lower another 2". That's about the limit on this boat because of fender to hull clearance and departure angle issues with the long shoal keel. With my tilting keel pan / bow roller design this would allow me to float this 30" draft boat off the trailer when there was 37" of water at the forward edge of the keel.

Why go to the trouble you ask. Well we sail in a lot of lakes in the west where the tide goes out during droughts and the end of the ramp starts getting close as in close enough you can forget launching sometimes. On a ramp angle as shallow as 6 deg. we would not need a tongue extension when launching with our truck camper. I've got a list of good reasons.

Think about it before you say "just use a 4" drop axle".
 
Aug 22, 2017
1,609
Hunter 26.5 West Palm Beach
The only axleless trailers that I have used have been EEE drop decks. Those things are built for battle. You can lower the inch-thcik bed right down to the ground for easy loading of heavy things.
 
Jun 8, 2004
10,024
-na -NA Anywhere USA
There are axles referred to drop down axles vs. standard and then there are trailers and for the life of me I cannot recall the same name but in essence lower in a scissors style as weight is added. Look at that and report back.
 
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Apr 26, 2015
660
S2 26 Mid On Trailer
I used Torx Flex on mine, low enough to work as a keel support.
Are your spindle torque arms in the standard 20 degree down position or a dropped configuration?
I've read that in the dropped configuration the ride suffers greatly due to the diminishing torque the spindle arm can apply to the rubber inside the tube. The reason I have not ruled out the torsion design in half axles is I could decide the height for mounting, with a little extra steel, and keep the standard torque arm configuration. Thanks for the info, it keeps me thinking.
 
Apr 26, 2015
660
S2 26 Mid On Trailer
The only axleless trailers that I have used have been EEE drop decks. Those things are built for battle. You can lower the inch-thcik bed right down to the ground for easy loading of heavy things.
I've seen the Airtow drop decks and you could load a tank on one, but I'm trying to stay away from a lot of mechanical stuff to dunk in the water. I did think about something like a mechanical drop trailer, back in and lower the boat into the water, sweet.
 
Apr 26, 2015
660
S2 26 Mid On Trailer
There are axles referred to drop down axles vs. standard and then there are trailers and for the life of me I cannot recall the same name but in essence lower in a scissors style as weight is added. Look at that and report back.
OK Dave I just spent 45 minutes on researching the scissor style suspension and all I found was a pontoon boat lifting trailer and things like the Airtow and EEE like JimInPB mentioned. I know there are some innovative ideas out there and enough people on this forum to probably have seen most of these ideas at a boat ramp somewhere. If you come up with it please let me know.
 
Dec 31, 2016
319
Beneteau Oceanis 351 Charlottetown
Are your spindle torque arms in the standard 20 degree down position or a dropped configuration?
I've read that in the dropped configuration the ride suffers greatly due to the diminishing torque the spindle arm can apply to the rubber inside the tube. The reason I have not ruled out the torsion design in half axles is I could decide the height for mounting, with a little extra steel, and keep the standard torque arm configuration. Thanks for the info, it keeps me thinking.
The are the standard 20d's ,for the weight I'm moving and the short distance (approx. 5 miles) they worke great. I'm a welding fab shop owner /operator for over 34 years ,so if there is any info you might need ,feel free to contact me.
 
Dec 31, 2016
319
Beneteau Oceanis 351 Charlottetown
referred to as to I think Torsion style axles. However, look at the drop axles.
Yes, all the 'torsion' style axles (whatever brand you use), have a slight drop, any more then 20d or so and you will have less suspension travel, as they need to 'twist' to give you travel. Most 'dropped' are spring type, and they will work fine, except you can't go as low overall due to hangers, etc.
 
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Aug 1, 2011
3,972
Catalina 270 255 Wabamun. Welcome to the marina
When I rebuilt my trailer, I could have lowered the boat 22". The rudder got in the way of that plan, I would have dragged it across every curb leading to a fuel pump, and that's not something you can plan for. A simple 4" drop axle, (or 3) and actually lowering the bed of the trailer got enough drop to cause concern. What I think is being expressed here, but maybe not outright stated, less moving parts are more reliable.
 
Sep 20, 2014
1,320
Rob Legg RL24 Chain O'Lakes
One of the crazy ideas I was looking at when I was considering a First Class 8 was to put cranks on the torsion axles that would allow me to lower the trailer for launching. Just mount the torsion axle in a tube. Weld an arm on the inside and attach a screw with a crank. In addition, I looked at buying parts for a powered scissors jack (used for RVs), so I could power the cranks up and down. The final solution ended up being buying a different boat. :)
 
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Apr 26, 2015
660
S2 26 Mid On Trailer
One of the crazy ideas I was looking at when I was considering a First Class 8 was to put cranks on the torsion axles that would allow me to lower the trailer for launching. Just mount the torsion axle in a tube. Weld an arm on the inside and attach a screw with a crank. In addition, I looked at buying parts for a powered scissors jack (used for RVs), so I could power the cranks up and down. The final solution ended up being buying a different boat. :)
Crazy ideas are where solutions come from. You just reminded me of a plan I drew up several years ago when I was working on the keelboat positioning issue ie. against the bow roller every time. It involved a pivoting cradle for the boat to adjust for ramp angle but the axles made the whole rig ride too high. If I went to an axle less trailer the leading edge of the keel could be dropped almost all the way to the ramp surface. The boat would go in level and if the after most support pads were mounted on the fixed part of the trailer the boat would clear them when it floated off. This idea would eliminate the over the road ride height and departure angle issues. Now I've got to figure out how much steel it would take to eliminate the torque issues of axle less suspension, with an open frame between the suspension components. Thanks Dave, you've got me to rethinking the design. :doh: :)
 
Dec 31, 2016
319
Beneteau Oceanis 351 Charlottetown
You could also go the axless route like a Conolift or Brownell style, but with no suspension except for the tires they use might be a rough on the highway.
 
Mar 20, 2015
3,094
C&C 30 Mk1 Winnipeg
I saw some videos of guys in the UK? that had trailers that were 2 sections.
The keelboat sat on a dolly/cradle with fat tires.
At the ramp the road trailer goes in as far as practical. The dolly then is lowered further into the water with a winch.
The boats in the videos were all trailerable boats without retracting keels.
Can't seem to find a link, but will post if I do.

IMO: The brits have shallow water sailing down to a science.
 
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Apr 26, 2015
660
S2 26 Mid On Trailer
I saw some videos of guys in the UK? that had trailers that were 2 sections.
The keelboat sat on a dolly/cradle with fat tires.
At the ramp the road trailer goes in as far as practical. The dolly then is lowered further into the water with a winch.
The boats in the videos were all trailerable boats without retracting keels.
Can't seem to find a link, but will post if I do.

IMO: The brits have shallow water sailing down to a science.
I've got a plan sketched up for a trailer and cradle like you are talking about. I was going to do this for shallow launching and to be able to use the trailer with no boat as a car hauler. I didn't think about the fat tires though. Thanks. All of you guys and ideas are keeping me up at night but keep them coming.:)
 
Apr 26, 2015
660
S2 26 Mid On Trailer
You could also go the axless route like a Conolift or Brownell style, but with no suspension except for the tires they use might be a rough on the highway.
There are some great videos of those trailers in action. They must cost a large pile of those glow in the dark toonies.;)
 
Aug 22, 2017
1,609
Hunter 26.5 West Palm Beach
I've seen the Airtow drop decks and you could load a tank on one, but I'm trying to stay away from a lot of mechanical stuff to dunk in the water. I did think about something like a mechanical drop trailer, back in and lower the boat into the water, sweet.
The mechanical stuff doesn't necessarily need to get dunked. If you start with an open wishbone design like the EEE uses, but instead of putting in a sliding scissor drop deck, you instead build pedestals with strap winches on top of them, you could then support the boat from the straps & lower her when the trailer is in deep enough water. Aside from the wheels, suspension & frame, the only thing to get wet would be the straps.

If you wanted to get extra fancy & add another really nice feature, you could also make an extending hitch arm with either a hydraulic cylinder inside or an acme-screw type linear actuator inside. That way you have a nice short trailer for storage & road use, but a nice long trailer for backing Waaaay down the ramp, with just a flip of a switch to change between the two.
 
Dec 31, 2016
319
Beneteau Oceanis 351 Charlottetown
The mechanical stuff doesn't necessarily need to get dunked. If you start with an open wishbone design like the EEE uses, but instead of putting in a sliding scissor drop deck, you instead build pedestals with strap winches on top of them, you could then support the boat from the straps & lower her when the trailer is in deep enough water. Aside from the wheels, suspension & frame, the only thing to get wet would be the straps.

If you wanted to get extra fancy & add another really nice feature, you could also make an extending hitch arm with either a hydraulic cylinder inside or an acme-screw type linear actuator inside. That way you have a nice short trailer for storage & road use, but a nice long trailer for backing Waaaay down the ramp, with just a flip of a switch to change between the two.
That's sounds good, but I'd wonder about the leverage from the top of the posts where the straps attach wanting to pull the posts in and twisting the yoke.
 
Aug 22, 2017
1,609
Hunter 26.5 West Palm Beach
You might need a cross bar above the deck if the frame is not built like a bridge.