Arguing with my "boat guy"

Parsons · Mar 17, 2017

I'm not an expert at marine sanitation ... but, Peggy is. I'm willing to bet that your "guy" is not an expert either, considering the recommendation for the charcoal filter. I think that Peggy recommends two separate vents, but many boats (including mine), only have one and it works to keep the tank aerated. That said, if yours had two, why cap one? On the topic of "... but he says it won't make any difference.", I would end that attitude very quickly -- if he isn't making payments for your boat, he doesn't get a vote! I've followed Peggy's advice on keeping tank aerated, washing with water every few pump outs, and using Raritan KO product only, and I don't have smells. BTW: that "boat odor" comment is BS as well.

Gunni · Mar 17, 2017

You do not need two holding tank vents. You just need a vent that works effectively.
You need to know how your system is plumbed. It isn't rocket science but it is important that you are operating the system per the design intention. For instance, many systems have long hose runs that must be flushed or you they will fester and stink.

It is rare that people new to marine sanitation devices are capable in their use and maintenance. As you have determined, it is very important that you know your head. Improper MSD use and problems thereof are at the top of the boat problem list.

marchem · Mar 17, 2017

Pipe Dream said:
Thanks guys for the replies. I have searched the boat for the source of the odor and can't seem to locate. I have to believe that it's related to this issue. I have been using Odorloss but it doesn't seem to be doing the trick. From your experience, could the hoses cause the odor regardless of the type of chemical used in the tank-in essence are these 2 separate issues/functions?

Depends on whether the odor is coming from stuff in the hoses, or stuff in the tank. Depending on what type of hoses and how old they are, any odor that's being created inside the hoses could be coming thru the walls of the hose. The production of odor inside the hoses is dependent on what's in the hose (obviously): fresh or salt water, and how well flushed the hoses get after use. If you're using salt water for flushing don't forget that seawater sitting in the inlet line can get real nasty if it sits for a while and the bugs die-one of the real advantages of flushing with fresh water.

Gunni · Mar 17, 2017

You have to push enough water through the effluent lines to clear waste into the tank. Typically one pump for each foot of hose between the bowl and the tank. If you are using Odorlos it helps to flush the bowl/lines, then add the Odorlos and pump only enough to put most of it into the tank but leave some in the discharge hoses. It feeds aerobic bacteria and releases oxygen. I have found that can remedy a stinky MSD system.

Kermit · Mar 17, 2017

It could be some other source, too. Check any floor mats, especially carpet-type mats. I had a HUGE problem last summer that turned out to be my ballast tank. I figure you don't have a ballast tank. I'm just using that as an example. I would have a dollar that it was my sanitation system. Peggie assured me it was not. She was correct.

Meriachee · Mar 17, 2017

It could absolutely be the hoses too. As they age, they tend to sweat, we had the very same problem with ours, and changing the hoses solved it. They were almost 20 years old at the time. Some folks have said that the RV sanitation hose material lasts longer, but that may be urban myth.

Parsons · Mar 19, 2017

Finding smells in a boat is frustrating. Everything smells the same after a while, and you begin to doubt yourself. Try multiple trips to the fresh air and returning systematically to a new area to search. Grade each trip and see if you can triangulate to a source.

As you imagine, joints and flexible hoses are the likely source, so you supposition about the vent hose is reasonable. Replacing one is a pain as it is probably routed everywhere. When you replace it, buy the absolute best quality because you will never want to do it again!

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · Mar 19, 2017

Your odor is inside the boat. That makes it unlikely that the tank is source...'cuz unless a tank is leaking, odor from inside the tank has only one place to go--out the tank vent. It's not unusual to have both problems--odor out the vent AND odor inside the boa--but curing one won't cure the other.
Permeated sanitation hoses are most the common source of odor inside a boat, and the fact that your boat has a "a stink-kind of a sweet smell after a few days that gets stronger" is typical of the odor from permeated hoses....so that's the first thing I'd check. There's an easy way to do it: wet clean rags in hot water--as hot as you can handle. Wring each one out and wrap it around a section hose--every section in the toilet discharge hose, pumpout hose and vent line. Use a clean rag for each section. When the rags have cooled, remove each one and smell it. If you can smell anything on any of the rags, that section of hose has permeated. New hoses are the only cure. This is not a place to go cheap, 'cuz cheap hoses can permeate in as little as a few months and this is a job your only want to do ONCE. If the hoses pass the test, we need to do a little one-on-one exploring to find the source...it could be as simple as a previous spill that wasn't completely cleaned up or residual odor from previous stinking hoses. Or, if your tank is aluminum, a leaking tank. You have my book...you might want to re-read the section "Boat Odors Are NOT All In Your Head."
To determine whether you also have a problem with holding tank odor--odor out the vent--flush the toilet while someone is standing on the dock next to the vent thru-hull. If you do, it's not hard to cure....a short straight 1" vent line--maybe two in some cases, but not all...and a vent thru-hull that'll actually allow some exchange of air along with the right tank product should cure it.

Btw...I was on Lanier for 26 years. Where you do keep the boat? What's its make/model/age? Who's your boat guy? I've been gone from there for 15 years, but if he's been around longer than that I may know him. (I'm thinking he could use a copy of my book too!)

Kermit · Mar 19, 2017

Listen to Peggie. Do what she says to do. My odor was HORRIBLE. I was certain it was sanitation-system-related. She was certain it was not. She was right.

shemandr · Mar 19, 2017

Gunni said:
You have to push enough water through the effluent lines to clear waste into the tank. Typically one pump for each foot of hose between the bowl and the tank.

We used to pump at least a gallon thru. Somewhere along the line, I estimated that it would take a gallon, and then some, to move all the effluent through the hose to the tank. Do the math. I'm not saying every flush but at the end of a weekend or whatever you need to have fresh water in the hose. It's all in Peggy's book.

centerline · Mar 19, 2017

I didnt read all the replies so I may be doubling someone elses suggestion, but if you were to use an odor removing chemical in the sanitation, it will allow you to determine if the smell is coming from the sanitation tank. (PM me and I will share with you the name of an odor killing Monochem product that you can use to determine this )

2 vents may help, but not necessary. one vent is absolutely necessary.... and even if the hoses are permeated, the chemical will take the smell out of them... it may be alright for testing, but it shouldnt be used long term in marine sanitation systems.

once you determine if the smell is coming from the sanitation system, or from the bilge, then you can move forward to fixing the problem.

what you describe sounds familiar... you may have a cracked holding tank or leaking hose. it only takes a couple drops of the effluent to fill the boat with the smell of it.

I found this issue on our boat after I bought it.... when I pump out the smell went away, but when the tank got a bit of effluent built up in it, the smell came back in full force. after removing the tank and filling it with water, I found the leak....

after having it repaired and changing the hoses the problem disappeared.... that was 2 years ago and the smell has not returned.

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · Mar 19, 2017

centerline said:
if you were to use an odor removing chemical in the sanitation, it will allow you to determine if the smell is coming from the sanitation tank. (PM me and I will share with you the name of an odor killing Monochem product that you can use to determine this )

What's stopping you from posting the name of it here?

centerline · Mar 19, 2017

Peggie Hall HeadMistress said:
What's stopping you from posting the name of it here?

nothing. other than its a formaldehyde product that is not environmentally friendly.
I know you are aware the formaldehyde products have all but disappeared from the shelves because it kills all the bacteria including the beneficial type, so it can kill the activity in a septic tank...most of the remote pumpout stations dont want the chemical in their system, and even the ones connected to the municipal system cant handle a lot of formaldehyde.
so in my opinion, even though it kills the stink, and it has its specific uses, its not something everyone should be using all the time... yet its readily available almost everywhere.

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · Mar 20, 2017

Unfortunately formaldehyde has not all but disappeared from the market....it's the active ingredient in Thetford Aqua Kem, which is the best selling tank "deodorant" in both the RV and marine market...and you'll find it in other brands too, along with gluteraldehyde and quaternary ammonium compound, two more highly UNfriendly chemicals. The active ingredient in Thetford CampaChem is Bronopol, which is the trade name for another bacteriacide. The active ingredient in Odoban are isopropanol and alkyl dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride...also lethal. People buy 'em because they're a lot cheaper than products that work WITH nature to prevent odor from occurring in the first place instead of killing all the bacteria including the so-called "good" bacteria. And you're right that sewage treatment plants don't like any of 'em.

centerline · Mar 20, 2017

Peggie Hall HeadMistress said:
Unfortunately formaldehyde has not all but disappeared from the market....it's the active ingredient in Thetford Aqua Kem, which is the best selling tank "deodorant" in both the RV and marine market...and you'll find it in other brands too, along with gluteraldehyde and quaternary ammonium compound, two more highly UNfriendly chemicals. The active ingredient in Thetford CampaChem is Bronopol, which is the trade name for another bacteriacide. The active ingredient in Odoban are isopropanol and alkyl dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride...also lethal. People buy 'em because they're a lot cheaper than products that work WITH nature to prevent odor from occurring in the first place instead of killing all the bacteria including the so-called "good" bacteria. And you're right that sewage treatment plants don't like any of 'em.

you are right that it IS still on the market, but not like it used to be when almost all of the toilet chemicals contained formaldhyde.
most other manufactures, like aqua chem used to have a higher concentration of the chemical in some of their products, which worked very well for killing the smell, but in a half hearted attempt to be a bit more friendly to the environment, they have lowered the content of the formaldehyde in their products that still use it.... there is at least one brand that im aware of that still manufactures with the higher concentrate.

Meriachee · Mar 20, 2017

centerline said:
but in a half hearted attempt to be a bit more friendly to the environment, they have lowered the content of the formaldehyde in their products that still use it

That sounds more like the marketing department crafted it. "smaller, leaner, more expensive"