Anyone have any comments on the new hunter 18
- Thread starter Mel Steinlicht
- Start date
Sure. First it is made of fiberglass and not the ACP construction. You will find positive foam floatation as required. In addition, suggest sailing no more than 12-14 degree heel adjusting your sails. It has been a long time since being on one but you will enjoy it.
bobby: What is "pinwheel"? I have been sailing for 30 years and don't know the term as a sailing term. Please educate me. Thanks.
Ready to have your minds blown? Sailboats do not want to go forward when under sail, they want to spin stern over bow.
Overlay a sailboat on a clock so the bow is pointing right to 3:00, the stern is at the 9:00 position. The mast is at high noon. Under sail, the boat would rather spin clockwise rather than go forward. The axis of rotation depends but usually it's somewhere between the waterline and the bottom of the keel around midship.
The sails are well above the axis of rotation AND the sails exert some force. Its the opposite of a boat under power where the thrust is almost directly behind the axis of rotation and level with it.
Thought experiment. Instead of sails, imagine there is a line tied somewhere on a mast. It could be low against the deck, or up by the head. Initially, as you pull the line the boat will want to stay in place yet the mast will follow the string,
The physics are the same in any orientation. If you lay the boat on a table and pull the line the boat will spin until the the central axis is directly behind the line, then drag. If you yank the line the boat will have enough momentum to spin completely around. Like a pinwheel.
The only thing preventing a sailboat under sail from spinning stern over bow is the buoyancy in front of the center of rotation. Gravity and the spinning force is countered by the water pushing UP. If we take our boat now floating and pull the line it will go forward and also attempt to submarine. The amount of submarining depends on how rapidly the line is pulled and how high the line is on the mast. If the line is pulled forward while boat is heeled it will go forward less, submarine less, and spin more, buoyancy is still up, but the forward thrust is not down to water anymore. The thrust is towards the horizen. The boat will spin like it did on a table.
A good sailboat will have the focused energy of the sail (the line tied to the mast) as low as possible to provide the least amount of leverage. The higher the line the more leverage there is to rotate. The lower the line, the more power that can be applied to the mast and have it converted to forward versus angular momentum.
One way to adjust the "thrust line" down the mast is to reef the main. This reduces the leverge on the mast, reduces the forward thrust, and also the surface area that tips the boat over, especially for a poorly designed surfaces. Same for jib but usually reefed jib does not lower leverage, A jib will provide most of the forward thrust so the jib is often the culprit for spinning forward. This is different from a true weather helm scenario which is really about rudder balance.
The best natural explanation is watching a maple seed fall. Should have called it maple seeding.
So if Dave says dont let it heel he's got to be saying the boat is some combination of over leveraged, overpowered or top heavy.
I sail a hunter 170 when its not hot and stormy and an rc sailboat when it is. I rarely sail with all sails up unless im packing rail meat.
Overlay a sailboat on a clock so the bow is pointing right to 3:00, the stern is at the 9:00 position. The mast is at high noon. Under sail, the boat would rather spin clockwise rather than go forward. The axis of rotation depends but usually it's somewhere between the waterline and the bottom of the keel around midship.
The sails are well above the axis of rotation AND the sails exert some force. Its the opposite of a boat under power where the thrust is almost directly behind the axis of rotation and level with it.
Thought experiment. Instead of sails, imagine there is a line tied somewhere on a mast. It could be low against the deck, or up by the head. Initially, as you pull the line the boat will want to stay in place yet the mast will follow the string,
The physics are the same in any orientation. If you lay the boat on a table and pull the line the boat will spin until the the central axis is directly behind the line, then drag. If you yank the line the boat will have enough momentum to spin completely around. Like a pinwheel.
The only thing preventing a sailboat under sail from spinning stern over bow is the buoyancy in front of the center of rotation. Gravity and the spinning force is countered by the water pushing UP. If we take our boat now floating and pull the line it will go forward and also attempt to submarine. The amount of submarining depends on how rapidly the line is pulled and how high the line is on the mast. If the line is pulled forward while boat is heeled it will go forward less, submarine less, and spin more, buoyancy is still up, but the forward thrust is not down to water anymore. The thrust is towards the horizen. The boat will spin like it did on a table.
A good sailboat will have the focused energy of the sail (the line tied to the mast) as low as possible to provide the least amount of leverage. The higher the line the more leverage there is to rotate. The lower the line, the more power that can be applied to the mast and have it converted to forward versus angular momentum.
One way to adjust the "thrust line" down the mast is to reef the main. This reduces the leverge on the mast, reduces the forward thrust, and also the surface area that tips the boat over, especially for a poorly designed surfaces. Same for jib but usually reefed jib does not lower leverage, A jib will provide most of the forward thrust so the jib is often the culprit for spinning forward. This is different from a true weather helm scenario which is really about rudder balance.
The best natural explanation is watching a maple seed fall. Should have called it maple seeding.
So if Dave says dont let it heel he's got to be saying the boat is some combination of over leveraged, overpowered or top heavy.
I sail a hunter 170 when its not hot and stormy and an rc sailboat when it is. I rarely sail with all sails up unless im packing rail meat.
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When testing the original 170, I found using both sails was not an issue in lighter winds under 12-15 depending on the point of sail and amount of sail deployed. The 170 I sold I opted in the beginning to install roller furling and made sure there was a reef point. I cannot remember if that became standard or not with the later boats as it has been many years ago. It was up to the comfort level with the captain but found 12-14 degree heel max with sail control was the key.
As for the 18, first I never heard spinwheel term used in sailing. It may be the rake of the mast that has to be readjusted.
As for the 18, first I never heard spinwheel term used in sailing. It may be the rake of the mast that has to be readjusted.
How does the 18 compare against the 170 for sailing and trailering. Is the mast hight the same?
The 170 hull is too big to beach launch yet floats like a autum leaf on water. The kickup centerboard is great for shallow water but given the incredible bouyancy was the centerboard for the 18 provided with more mass? Once i cant carry the hull down the beach and have to trailer then all i care is it fits in the garage and is less than 1500 lbs for towing. Id craft a heavier centerboard for my 170 since the bouyancy can easily support it, but it looks like there are just 4 bolts holding the hinge pin.
Is the bow d ring lower? Most 170 trailer set ups are wrong. The d ring should be lower closer to the waterline so that the bow roller is above the ring. There isnt much room between the bow rub rail and the ring.
Are there plans for a removable hard top bow deck? The 170 has what looks like a recessed track around the perimeter of the cuddy. Those fiberglass battons that shape the canvas cuddy cover sit on the floor along the wall of the garage. Everyone on board hates trying to get to the bow cleats or unjamming the furler with those in the way. Have to use the cover though. The jib lines will wrap around everything sitting in the cuddy if left open.
The 170 and the 18 meet size for coast guard safety items and some state licencing. Does the 18 have storage for oars, anchors, flares, snacks. A dry space to hold licence and keys? When the boat flips the cuddy stays dry, but i still tie off everything so it does not fall out. Be nice if the 18 has a dedicated storage so that the jib lines dont get wrapoed up in that mess. When sailing with no jib guests like to sit in cuddy like its a recliner. If there was storage then they wouldnt have to sit with anchor box and oar/fender bag between legs. There us a massive amount of internal hollow space between the cuddy floor and the hull. It the hull was fiberglass i thing iwould try to cut that open and put a recessed bowl in there. Cap it with a watertight cover. If it floided it still wouldnt affect bouyancy much.
Does the 18 flip like the170? I spent an afternoon purposly flipping it to get a feel for what the edge feels like, and how to recover quickly and to test the mast noodling. No turtles.
The 170 hull is too big to beach launch yet floats like a autum leaf on water. The kickup centerboard is great for shallow water but given the incredible bouyancy was the centerboard for the 18 provided with more mass? Once i cant carry the hull down the beach and have to trailer then all i care is it fits in the garage and is less than 1500 lbs for towing. Id craft a heavier centerboard for my 170 since the bouyancy can easily support it, but it looks like there are just 4 bolts holding the hinge pin.
Is the bow d ring lower? Most 170 trailer set ups are wrong. The d ring should be lower closer to the waterline so that the bow roller is above the ring. There isnt much room between the bow rub rail and the ring.
Are there plans for a removable hard top bow deck? The 170 has what looks like a recessed track around the perimeter of the cuddy. Those fiberglass battons that shape the canvas cuddy cover sit on the floor along the wall of the garage. Everyone on board hates trying to get to the bow cleats or unjamming the furler with those in the way. Have to use the cover though. The jib lines will wrap around everything sitting in the cuddy if left open.
The 170 and the 18 meet size for coast guard safety items and some state licencing. Does the 18 have storage for oars, anchors, flares, snacks. A dry space to hold licence and keys? When the boat flips the cuddy stays dry, but i still tie off everything so it does not fall out. Be nice if the 18 has a dedicated storage so that the jib lines dont get wrapoed up in that mess. When sailing with no jib guests like to sit in cuddy like its a recliner. If there was storage then they wouldnt have to sit with anchor box and oar/fender bag between legs. There us a massive amount of internal hollow space between the cuddy floor and the hull. It the hull was fiberglass i thing iwould try to cut that open and put a recessed bowl in there. Cap it with a watertight cover. If it floided it still wouldnt affect bouyancy much.
Does the 18 flip like the170? I spent an afternoon purposly flipping it to get a feel for what the edge feels like, and how to recover quickly and to test the mast noodling. No turtles.
I would check the weight for both as one is fiberglass and the other is ACP construction which should be lighter. As for the 170, it has since been long discontinued and the old Hunter is gone as it is now Marlow-Hunter who builds the 18.