Antifreeze color

[Lisa]

we did a sea trial today on a 310 we put on offer in on.

One concern was there was an orange brown liquid under the westerbeke 26hp. They said it was antifreeze from the overflow container. I've never seen orange antifreeze, always green. An internet search showed there is such a thing. Is this common on these boats? 2007. My concern is rust, I took the cap off and looked in and it looked clean and my finger came out clean and slippery like antifreeze. 369hrs on the engine.

Thanks hopefully future 310 owners

 

[marchem]

we did a sea trial today on a 310 we put on offer in on.

One concern was there was an orange brown liquid under the westerbeke 26hp. They said it was antifreeze from the overflow container. I've never seen orange antifreeze, always green. An internet search showed there is such a thing. Is this common on these boats? 2007. My concern is rust, I took the cap off and looked in and it looked clean and my finger came out clean and slippery like antifreeze. 369hrs on the engine.

Thanks hopefully future 310 owners

If the liquid didn’t look anything like what was in the overflow tank they either changed the coolant recently, or are lying. Ours is green, but who knows what a previous owner used. I would sample the liquid under the engine and see if it looks more like diesel, or oil. Pretty low hours, at least compared to ours, at 2200!

 

[leo310]

I have green antifreeze but also a yanmar. If you have orange its ok but you can not mix green and orange unless you flush the system until completely clean or you will end up with a gel and over heat your engine.

 

[Rick D]

I can't speak to this particular boat but you are correct that there is a long life orange antifreeze. One cannot be swapped for another without a thorough flushing and never mixed. There is a newer type that is compatible with both types. I do not know about any limitations.

 

[jviss]

Congrats on making the offer! Exciting. I went through this, last month.

Long life antifreeze is red.

 

[centerline]

when the cooling system is serviced with new antifreeze, depending on what the onwer chooses to put in it can be green, red or an orange color.... the green is the old fashioned conventional type with possibly a water pump lubricant as an additive... all the other colors are called ELC antifreeze (Extended Life Coolant) which is claimed to be more environmentally friendly, and its possible that the basic stuff is.
the Quality brands of ELC have a full range of additives that help protect diesel engines (as well as gas engines) and helps keep the cooling system clean.... (it is highly recommended that diesel engines using conventional AF should run additional additives)
so yes, in todays systems its common to see the ELC in cooling systems.

both types are perfectly good products.

the green is not compatible with the other colors, and "extended life" is nothing more than a sales pitch... the the old systems that can safely run the green stuff, the green antifreeze will last years longer than the ELC will in a system that requires the ELC, as the additives fade away and it needs to be changed out every 5-8 years... in the old green systems, the antifreeze properties dont change so we just put in more of the necessary additives, as needed...

 

[KZW]

I beg to differ regarding "extended life" is nothing more than a sales pitch. Practical Sailor a few years ago ran tests on antifreeze. They ended up recommending long life antifreeze long distance truckers use in their diesel engines. Change interval is five years. It is orange-red in color. I'm running it in my boat.

 

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

Make sure you read this thread. It talks about Dex Cool, one of the extended life antifreezes. I use the traditional green stuff with changes every two years. I'm actually due now.

 

[jviss]

Make sure you read this thread. It talks about Dex Cool, one of the extended life antifreezes. I use the traditional green stuff with changes every two years. I'm actually due now.

What thread?

 

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

Make sure you read this thread. It talks about Dex Cool, one of the extended life antifreezes. I use the traditional green stuff with changes every two years. I'm actually due now.

Sorry. Forgot the link. See above.

 

[jviss]

Sorry. Forgot the link. See above.

Can you net it out for me, please? That thread's like a novel.

 

[KZW]

My query to Practical Sailor on their Oct 2014 article on antifreeze and coolants:

"In your recent article on engine coolants (see PS October 2014 online), you wrote about replacement intervals for coolants, and I’m looking for clarification. You indicated that the following heavy-duty coolants for diesels were coolants, not antifreeze: Zerex GO5, Peak Final Charge NOAT, and Detroit Diesel Power Cool Plus. You also suggested that I “replace the coolant every 1,000 hours, . . . (and for little used engines) changing the coolant every five years is a more practical approach.”

However, when winterizing, we’re supposed to replace the coolant with antifreeze, correct? So which is it, replace the coolant every five years, or flush each fall and replace with anti-freeze? By the way, my engine is a 25-horsepower Universal M-25 XPB.

Amazing Grace, Catalina 310
Bluewater Bay, Fla.

We apologize for the confusion. The correct industry name for the glycol-based heat-transfer fluids used in engines is “engine coolant.” All engine coolants protect against freezing, but not all antifreeze solutions are certified for use as engine coolants. The Zerex G-05, for example, is a 50/50 glycol-based solution that will provide freeze protection to -34 degrees. Most over-the-counter coolants like the ones we tested are also 50/50 dilutions (about 48 percent glycol), the optimum mixture for corrosion protection and cooling. A more concentrated glycol solution will increase freeze protection (enough for use in Antarctica), but this is not a good operating mixture, as it will sacrifice cooling ability. A more diluted mixture sacrifices corrosion protection.

Remember that these ethylene glycol (EG) engine coolants (also sometimes labeled as “antifreeze”) are NOT to be used as antifreeze in potable water systems. The name change from anti-freeze to coolant was made decades ago to clarify that “engine coolants” should be used year-round.

Antifreeze is used specifically for winterizing fluids. These are typically (but not always) propylene-glycol (PG) products, which means that they are acceptable in potable plumbing systems. In our view, they are not a good choice for storing an engine through winter, and certainly not a good choice for an operating engine.

The term “antifreeze” is also used to apply to alcohol and brine-based products. We don’t recommend either of these formulations.

As for the replacement interval, so long as the glycol content is correct (see PS September 2014 online), marine engine coolant is not replaced in the winter. The required change interval varies, but is typically five years or 1,000 to 10,000 hours. The higher replacement interval generally refers to land-based engines (trucks, generators, etc.). For marine engines, we would use a more conservative 1,000-hour interval, which is closer to the suggested intervals listed in documents from Yanmar and other engine-makers.

Bottom line: Generally, we advise that you follow your engine maker’s service guidelines, but if you use a heavy-duty coolant like those we tested, replacing more frequently than five years/1,000 hours is wasteful, in our view. Nor do you need to use the brands that the maker recommends; some of the engine service advisories we have seen recommend products that clearly provide less protection for shorter periods of time than the top products we tested.
----------
I've run Zerex G-05 in my boat for the last two years. No issues, no color change.

 

[JimInPB]

My experience with anti-freeze/coolant/stuff you put in a heat exchanger/radiator is this:

1) do not mix different colors. Some combinations will form a thick or semi-solid material that will plug up the whole system.
2) do not use the "concentrates" straight. If you don't have the water in there at a reasonable percentage, then heat transfer capacity is reduced.

 

[centerline]

I beg to differ regarding "extended life" is nothing more than a sales pitch. Practical Sailor a few years ago ran tests on antifreeze. They ended up recommending long life antifreeze long distance truckers use in their diesel engines. Change interval is five years. It is orange-red in color. I'm running it in my boat.

the stuff truckers use, its the ELC that I referred to.
how many years do you suppose one can one get out of the green stuff?.... here. let me answer that for you, FOREVER. as long as it doesnt get contaminated or diluted with a rust, oil or too much water. in the proper mix, it will keep the water from turning to ice indefinitely... the ELC does degrade over time, mostly the additives, but the antifreeze properties still last quite a few years after the other additives have broken down in the solution...
so in relation to the green stuff, the "extended" part of the ELC is nothing more than hype to get one to buy it, because its not truthfully descriptive of how long it lasts at all.. in relation to the old fashioned green stuff, which is all there is to compare it too, other than pure glycerin itself...

as for what the truckers use, they were perfectly happy with the green stuff, but the engine manufactures and oil companies were forced to clean up anything that could be spilled, overflowed, or vented into the atmosphere, so then came the ELC... it was pushed on to the truckers, and there are still many of them that switch to the green at some service interval after the warranty runs out....
im NOT saying the ELC is bad stuff, or that it shouldnt be used, but what I AM saying is, even though the E stands for "extended", the ELC isnt nearly as long of life of antifreeze as the conventional green stuff.
the elc is great, but its not the best choice for all applications all the time..
This is america and one has the the right to choose whatever they prefer, as long as they continue to make options to choose from.

 

[centerline]

As for the replacement interval, so long as the glycol content is correct (see PS September 2014 online), marine engine coolant is not replaced in the winter. The required change interval varies, but is typically five years or 1,000 to 10,000 hours. The higher replacement interval generally refers to land-based engines (trucks, generators, etc.). For marine engines, we would use a more conservative 1,000-hour interval, which is closer to the suggested intervals listed in documents from Yanmar and other engine-makers.

as for practical sailors response, the 5th paragraph, as quoted,
"As for the replacement interval, so long as the glycol content is correct (see PS September 2014 online), marine engine coolant is not replaced in the winter. The required change interval varies, but is typically five years or 1,000 to 10,000 hours. The higher replacement interval generally refers to land-based engines (trucks, generators, etc.). For marine engines, we would use a more conservative 1,000-hour interval, which is closer to the suggested intervals listed in documents from Yanmar and other engine-makers."

the editors wording is a bit confusing in this, but in context he is saying that land based vehicles can "generally" have a much longer ("higher") interval without servicing the coolant...

this is an opinion, and not necessarily a fact..
also, one has to assume that the publication is referring to our smaller and less used pleasure boats and not the big industrial/commercial ships/tankers.
I have some advanced knowledge of engines (gas, diesel, and propane) service intervals oils and coolants, and i would have to ask the guy the wrote that paragraph, why would one need to change antifreeze/coolant in our boat more often than in a truck, generator or automobile?
anyone who takes a moment to think knows land based vehicles are subject to harsher conditions (within the same latitudes) both winter and summer than a boat moored/docked on the water does.
the land based engines usually take more abuse and get more hours accumulated quicker than our boats do, so they actually should be serviced MORE often, not less... as for the hourly interval, there is no part or fluid pertaining to an engine, other than the engine oil that can be expected to last longer in an engine that normally operates longer than it does setting stopped and cold... a truck engine spends more of its life running than it does shut down.
in other words, any engine that is setting dormant isnt wearing out its coolant...and ONLY the oil in an engine that runs nearly all the time (generators, trucks, industrial engines) will have a longer service life than will the oil in an engine that gets run like our cars, boats and toys do...
so even though I believe the practical sailor magazine to be a great publication, the reporters are just real people like us who can make honest mistakes which can create opinions that dont quite hit the mark.... and sometimes its how the opinions are interpreted that can make all the difference.

 

[JimInPB]

I had been told that the different color coolants were developed for use in cooling systems that were made out of different materials. I don't remember which colors or formulations were for use with which materials. I have not given this issue any real thought for a long time. I also never researched the color vs. material compatibility issue to conform it's truth, so at this point, that can be considered hearsay, but the possibility may be worth considering.

 

[dziedzicmj]

However, when winterizing, we’re supposed to replace the coolant with antifreeze, correct? So which is it, replace the coolant every five years, or flush each fall and replace with anti-freeze? By the way, my engine is a 25-horsepower Universal M-25 XPB.

This is not the case. You don't need to replace the coolant, when you winterise the engine. The coolant, if it is the right stuff (e.g. not simple water), has the antifreeze properties already.

However, you need to winterise your raw water side of the cooling system. but this is a completely different matter.

 

[Cat 310 #1 in GA]

I use the Yanmar brand coolant in my Yanmar engine and it is orange...

 

[Alansails]

We use the green stuff and have-we bought our boat with 150 engine hours for a 11 year old boat that we now have 400 on and have had her for 4 years. She is a great design and you will love her, Congrats!
Please also join the 310 association and get a discount on towing through our affiliation with BOATUS.
There is LOTS of great information here on this forum as you can tell.
Welcome

 

[centerline]

I had been told that the different color coolants were developed for use in cooling systems that were made out of different materials. I don't remember which colors or formulations were for use with which materials. I have not given this issue any real thought for a long time. I also never researched the color vs. material compatibility issue to conform it's truth, so at this point, that can be considered hearsay, but the possibility may be worth considering.

it matters little what material the containment system is made out of to either type. and it is the truth that the two type so antifreeze are NOT compatible with one another, although they WONT gel up if mixed, like rumor has it, but mixing them will degrade the antifreeze properties of the mix, and you also lose the benefit of any additives, due to dilution.

EXCEPTION... there is a formulation that IS compatible with any color, and this may become the norm as time goes by.

the green conventional antifreeze lasts indefinitely, but should have a water pump lubricant added to it, and for maximum protection in any engine and especially diesels, an SCA should be used, and required by some engine manufactures, hence the use of the ELC, which already has all these additives in it.
but the additives, especially the SCA degrades over time, and this is the main reason the coolant needs to be changed out.... with the green coolant, a bit more SCA only has to be added as required.

SCA (Supplimental Coolant Additive), as generic as this name sounds, is a specific formulation that increases the protection of the cooling system other than just the antifreeze properties of ethylene or propylene glycol.... when additives are added to the glycols, the name changes from antifreeze to Coolant.... one can still buy antifreeze, but coolant has become the norm because of its increased benefits.

the there are only 2 reason that some would prefer the conventional green stuff over the ELC.
reason 1 being that its the good old fashioned stuff that has never failed them, so why change.
reason 2 being that, as the green ethylene glycol lasts forever, its cheaper to add SCA's to it every few years.
when one has a fleet of equipment and some of this equipment can hold as much as 30 gallons or more of coolant, it doesnt take long to get real expensive changing the entire system....

the ELC is excellent coolant in every respect, but it does need to be changed periodically to maintain maximum engine protection...
with all this being said, aluminum blocks and/or heads, as well as diesel engines benefit from having SCA's in the coolant, and so to insure the engine is getting its proper dose from owners who are a bit lax on maintenance, a lot of manufactures highly recommend the use of the ELC... but the conventional green will work just as well if maintained as it should be...