Other than the mast float has anyone tried another method of anti turtle? This spring I was thinking of adding closed cell foam (pipe insulation) into the hollow of the mast. Followed by testing in shallow water.
Anti Turtle
- Thread starter John Radcliff
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Luquid expanding foam solution
In my recent readings I saw somewhere that filling the top of the mast with the expanding foam works very well. The person had done the turtle thing in A 170 and began looking for solutions. I can't remember the site where I was reading about it but other than removing the top cap and doing it off the boat so that if anything came out the bottom of the mast you wouldn't have foam on your deck. It seemed very straight forward.
In my recent readings I saw somewhere that filling the top of the mast with the expanding foam works very well. The person had done the turtle thing in A 170 and began looking for solutions. I can't remember the site where I was reading about it but other than removing the top cap and doing it off the boat so that if anything came out the bottom of the mast you wouldn't have foam on your deck. It seemed very straight forward.
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Glenn Basore
Yes !
Hi John, That may have been me............I turtled last October 15th, I've since add the foam to the top of my mast, it was easy to do and cheap !......I tested it out to see how water tight it was by filling the mast from the bottom with water, the top was water tight, water did leak out at the shroud spreader attatchment, Ive since seal all fasteners with clear silicon to stop any water from leaking into the mast. I did not fill the mast entirely with foam, I used one can of foam which expanded to about 3- 4 feet inside the mast. I want any water that got in, to drain out the bottom of the mast. A couple of us have done this to our mast, The idea is not so much to float the mast but to stop the water from RUSHING INTO THE MAST which should allow you enough time to right your boat. I bought the float for the top of my mast but just can't stand the sight of it SO I have not used it.............We are going to do some capizing test just as soon as the water warms up. we will have plenty of help to right the boat if needed. If you need information on how to foam your mast you can e-mail me at...... glenn.basore@medtronic.com ...or gpb123@netzero.com..... Glenn Basore (H.D.A.S.C.)
Hi John, That may have been me............I turtled last October 15th, I've since add the foam to the top of my mast, it was easy to do and cheap !......I tested it out to see how water tight it was by filling the mast from the bottom with water, the top was water tight, water did leak out at the shroud spreader attatchment, Ive since seal all fasteners with clear silicon to stop any water from leaking into the mast. I did not fill the mast entirely with foam, I used one can of foam which expanded to about 3- 4 feet inside the mast. I want any water that got in, to drain out the bottom of the mast. A couple of us have done this to our mast, The idea is not so much to float the mast but to stop the water from RUSHING INTO THE MAST which should allow you enough time to right your boat. I bought the float for the top of my mast but just can't stand the sight of it SO I have not used it.............We are going to do some capizing test just as soon as the water warms up. we will have plenty of help to right the boat if needed. If you need information on how to foam your mast you can e-mail me at...... glenn.basore@medtronic.com ...or gpb123@netzero.com..... Glenn Basore (H.D.A.S.C.)
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George Ohlendorf
Mast Float
Glenn, any interest in selling the float you do not use? I would rather give my money to fellow Hunter owner than a retail store.
Glenn, any interest in selling the float you do not use? I would rather give my money to fellow Hunter owner than a retail store.
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Glenn Basore
I'm not sure George !
I only paid $35.00 for it, I think there about $65.00, how ever, I have not tested my capizing to see if the foam I put in my mast will keep it from turtling, once I make that determination one way or another if I'm going to use it.......the other problem I have, is getting my wife back on the boat !..........she says its to cold to sail durning the winter 65 -75 degrees right now..........I think she is worried about getting wet again. she is wanting the float attached any way !........wait and see...... I bought mine from another 170 owner who didnot like it, and he foamed his mast too. Good luck Glenn
I only paid $35.00 for it, I think there about $65.00, how ever, I have not tested my capizing to see if the foam I put in my mast will keep it from turtling, once I make that determination one way or another if I'm going to use it.......the other problem I have, is getting my wife back on the boat !..........she says its to cold to sail durning the winter 65 -75 degrees right now..........I think she is worried about getting wet again. she is wanting the float attached any way !........wait and see...... I bought mine from another 170 owner who didnot like it, and he foamed his mast too. Good luck Glenn
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George Ohlendorf
Mast Float / Weather
Dennis, I understand about your wife, we stepped down from a 23.5 to the 170 and my wife has yet to enjoy the boat. Keep the float if it makes your life easier! 65-75 Our high this week was 42!
Dennis, I understand about your wife, we stepped down from a 23.5 to the 170 and my wife has yet to enjoy the boat. Keep the float if it makes your life easier! 65-75 Our high this week was 42!
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George Ohlendorf
OOPS
Glenn, sorry about the name> I am working on a deal for a client named Dennis. So much for multi-tasking!
Glenn, sorry about the name> I am working on a deal for a client named Dennis. So much for multi-tasking!
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Glenn Basore
42 degrees !
42 degrees..........That has a little bit of a bite to it.............some of us (H.D.A.S.C.) are planning on sailing out of Ventura Saturday, right now its raining with a chance of showers for Saturday, I don't know how many of us will be out Saturday, will see. My wife was doing pretty good sailing untile I capzied it, its going be slow sailing for awhile.........if I have to put the training wheels on the bike to make her feel secure its a small price to pay to have her sail with me. When you get older, its hard to find things that you both enjoy together and can do !
42 degrees..........That has a little bit of a bite to it.............some of us (H.D.A.S.C.) are planning on sailing out of Ventura Saturday, right now its raining with a chance of showers for Saturday, I don't know how many of us will be out Saturday, will see. My wife was doing pretty good sailing untile I capzied it, its going be slow sailing for awhile.........if I have to put the training wheels on the bike to make her feel secure its a small price to pay to have her sail with me. When you get older, its hard to find things that you both enjoy together and can do !
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Glenn
Larger boat !
George, you stepped down to the 170 !.....I keep dreaming of a 35- 45 footer, I could not affoard the boat slip or dry storage space let alone the yearly up keep. I have thought about the Hunter 24 and 26 that I could tow. The problem is, I have just enough room at home for my 170, the 24 or 26 I would have to pay for dry storage....... I'm happy with the 170, easy to keep clean, no maintenanve or storage fees, easy to tow and a lot of fun, but I can still dream about a bigger boat. Why did you step down in size ?
George, you stepped down to the 170 !.....I keep dreaming of a 35- 45 footer, I could not affoard the boat slip or dry storage space let alone the yearly up keep. I have thought about the Hunter 24 and 26 that I could tow. The problem is, I have just enough room at home for my 170, the 24 or 26 I would have to pay for dry storage....... I'm happy with the 170, easy to keep clean, no maintenanve or storage fees, easy to tow and a lot of fun, but I can still dream about a bigger boat. Why did you step down in size ?
Angle of Vanishing Stability, AVS
If you would like to read a bit about healing here is an interesting link that goes into the heeling angle at which a boat capsizes
If you would like to read a bit about healing here is an interesting link that goes into the heeling angle at which a boat capsizes
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George Ohlendorf
Stepped Down
Glenn, we made the change primarily because paying the slip rental of $1500 to sail on a 10,000 acre lake 2-hours from our home from April to October (with very few good days available) seemed silly and expensive. I dream of a 32-35 footer that we can co-own with another family (to keep the cost managable).
Glenn, we made the change primarily because paying the slip rental of $1500 to sail on a 10,000 acre lake 2-hours from our home from April to October (with very few good days available) seemed silly and expensive. I dream of a 32-35 footer that we can co-own with another family (to keep the cost managable).
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Glenn Basore
Fees...............
Thats how I feel too.........I would love to have a 35 - 45 footer, I can't affoard anything like that, slip cost or dry storage, and the yearly maintenance cost as well.......The 170 is the right boat for me right now, it fits in a small carport along side of my garage, NO STORAGE FEE'S.......and I have a 45 min drive on a country road to the ocean. I live right nexk to Castaic Lake, one of the largest lakes in southern California. I don't use it because its a mad house with all the weekend boaters, you have to wait in line for hours to get in. Castaic Lake charges about $20.00 to launch your boat and park, I go to the ocean, its $3.00 for 24 hrs and no lines ! Glenn
Thats how I feel too.........I would love to have a 35 - 45 footer, I can't affoard anything like that, slip cost or dry storage, and the yearly maintenance cost as well.......The 170 is the right boat for me right now, it fits in a small carport along side of my garage, NO STORAGE FEE'S.......and I have a 45 min drive on a country road to the ocean. I live right nexk to Castaic Lake, one of the largest lakes in southern California. I don't use it because its a mad house with all the weekend boaters, you have to wait in line for hours to get in. Castaic Lake charges about $20.00 to launch your boat and park, I go to the ocean, its $3.00 for 24 hrs and no lines ! Glenn
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Mike G.
Sailing a 170 in the ocean
Glenn,thanks for your comments. The last part you mentioned (sailing in the ocean) caught my eye. My wife and I sailed our 170 at St. Augustine, FL last Memorial Day weekend, and plan to this Mem. Day (our anniversary), as well. Although the intercoastal gave the 170 plenty of room to roam, I pined to take her out the large and very intimidating (from the helm of a 170) Matanzas Inlet, and into the Atlantic. Could you tell me what size motor you have, if any, and how you time ebbtide (if you do) to avoid having to battle outflow when re-entering harbour? I assume you launch in an inlet or harbour and have to sail out through an inlet. Our 2.5 Four Stroke had plenty of power in 3 to 4 knot???? hard flowing tide (tide in or tide on the way out) at the dock and around the bridges, but I'm leery of timing it wrong and sailing out the inlet during high tide, only to struggle back against tide-flow-out. Any thoughts? Thanks- Mike G.
Glenn,thanks for your comments. The last part you mentioned (sailing in the ocean) caught my eye. My wife and I sailed our 170 at St. Augustine, FL last Memorial Day weekend, and plan to this Mem. Day (our anniversary), as well. Although the intercoastal gave the 170 plenty of room to roam, I pined to take her out the large and very intimidating (from the helm of a 170) Matanzas Inlet, and into the Atlantic. Could you tell me what size motor you have, if any, and how you time ebbtide (if you do) to avoid having to battle outflow when re-entering harbour? I assume you launch in an inlet or harbour and have to sail out through an inlet. Our 2.5 Four Stroke had plenty of power in 3 to 4 knot???? hard flowing tide (tide in or tide on the way out) at the dock and around the bridges, but I'm leery of timing it wrong and sailing out the inlet during high tide, only to struggle back against tide-flow-out. Any thoughts? Thanks- Mike G.
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Glenn Basore
Don't do it !
Hi Mike, Ive only been sailing for a year and have a lot to learn. Being on the West cost and not knowing anything about the east cost sailing condition I can only speak of the experiences that I have had sailing out of Ventura Marina and Los Alamitos bay Long Beach California. I have never had a problem with tieds, surf, or swells. The boat launch ramps are great, with docking near by for the day sailors. I have a Honda 2hp 4 stroke on my 170. It seems to work very well for me getting in and around the boat ramp and boat docks. It has always started for me and has run well,I think my top speed might be 5 mph ( sorry, don't know the nautical equivalent )and thats on smooth water. Going in and out of the chanel to get to the open sea has not been and issue for me sailing, the hunter sails effortlessly. Agian I don't know why, may be its the difference between the Pacific ocean and the Atlantic. What you have described to me is a little unnerving to me ! I wouls certinanly ask an experience EAST COAST 170 sailor before adventuring out to sea. Our seas are ussually calm enough that I can get out. I check before trying to do so. I have plenty of room to sail in the marinas. With my lack of experience, I pay attention to my cut feels and usualy go with what is safe for me. One last thing, After capizing my 170, I've learned to sail around other boat, there is safety in numbers ! Glenn
Hi Mike, Ive only been sailing for a year and have a lot to learn. Being on the West cost and not knowing anything about the east cost sailing condition I can only speak of the experiences that I have had sailing out of Ventura Marina and Los Alamitos bay Long Beach California. I have never had a problem with tieds, surf, or swells. The boat launch ramps are great, with docking near by for the day sailors. I have a Honda 2hp 4 stroke on my 170. It seems to work very well for me getting in and around the boat ramp and boat docks. It has always started for me and has run well,I think my top speed might be 5 mph ( sorry, don't know the nautical equivalent )and thats on smooth water. Going in and out of the chanel to get to the open sea has not been and issue for me sailing, the hunter sails effortlessly. Agian I don't know why, may be its the difference between the Pacific ocean and the Atlantic. What you have described to me is a little unnerving to me ! I wouls certinanly ask an experience EAST COAST 170 sailor before adventuring out to sea. Our seas are ussually calm enough that I can get out. I check before trying to do so. I have plenty of room to sail in the marinas. With my lack of experience, I pay attention to my cut feels and usualy go with what is safe for me. One last thing, After capizing my 170, I've learned to sail around other boat, there is safety in numbers ! Glenn
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John Kivel
holy cow (ocean!)
Of course you guys know your local waters, but I can't imagine a 170 in the ocean. I sail on small inland lakes, I have trailered my 170 to Lake Huron twice and both times the lake has refused my request to sail. Having grown up on Lake Huron I know that the wind does not usually come that strong on the Michigan shore of Lake Huron, but I was unlucky twice. The fist time I tried, having trailered it all that way, it was not hard for my old college roommate to convince me not to listen to the lake, and we went out anyway. We spent about 4 hours trying to get out of the marina. Once we got out past the break wall we surfed on 3- 4 foot waves for about 20 minutes and then headed back in. We never raised the sails, but then, we never flipped over either!! I learned to listen to the lake, I learned why sailors drink, and I learned that although my friend has more sailing experince than I do, he has no more common sence than he did when we were in college. John
Of course you guys know your local waters, but I can't imagine a 170 in the ocean. I sail on small inland lakes, I have trailered my 170 to Lake Huron twice and both times the lake has refused my request to sail. Having grown up on Lake Huron I know that the wind does not usually come that strong on the Michigan shore of Lake Huron, but I was unlucky twice. The fist time I tried, having trailered it all that way, it was not hard for my old college roommate to convince me not to listen to the lake, and we went out anyway. We spent about 4 hours trying to get out of the marina. Once we got out past the break wall we surfed on 3- 4 foot waves for about 20 minutes and then headed back in. We never raised the sails, but then, we never flipped over either!! I learned to listen to the lake, I learned why sailors drink, and I learned that although my friend has more sailing experince than I do, he has no more common sence than he did when we were in college. John
Ocean sailing and the 170
Good posts, guys. The Huron experience John describes sounds pretty spine-tingling! Of course, I would argue that the weather at the Atlantic shore is more predictable than that found inland (yes, by inland I mean Lake Huron). Although it's a huge body of water, I'm guessing its breezes and weather are not as balanced as those at the ocean shore. I've seen three day highs at St Augustine (not a cloud in the sky)...weather windows that would allow for some prudent oceanic exploration. Prudence is the main factor. When last we sailed the intercoastal, we had perfectly steady breezes, and beached at Anastasia State Park-- 50 yards from being out in the ocean. Lake Huron, Little Trout Lake, Little Bass Lake, Atlantic, whatever... there's no way I go out in anything close to more than I think the 170 can handle. I'll talk with the locals at the Conch House and the municipal marina before considering an ocean sail. I've come to realize that the 170 is not a boat to take out when you want to try something a little crazy. Really no sailing vessel fits that description. Being at the mercy of Mom Nature is humbling, no matter the size of the sailboat -By the way, I am glad you guys didn't raise the sails! YIKES! Mike G.
Good posts, guys. The Huron experience John describes sounds pretty spine-tingling! Of course, I would argue that the weather at the Atlantic shore is more predictable than that found inland (yes, by inland I mean Lake Huron). Although it's a huge body of water, I'm guessing its breezes and weather are not as balanced as those at the ocean shore. I've seen three day highs at St Augustine (not a cloud in the sky)...weather windows that would allow for some prudent oceanic exploration. Prudence is the main factor. When last we sailed the intercoastal, we had perfectly steady breezes, and beached at Anastasia State Park-- 50 yards from being out in the ocean. Lake Huron, Little Trout Lake, Little Bass Lake, Atlantic, whatever... there's no way I go out in anything close to more than I think the 170 can handle. I'll talk with the locals at the Conch House and the municipal marina before considering an ocean sail. I've come to realize that the 170 is not a boat to take out when you want to try something a little crazy. Really no sailing vessel fits that description. Being at the mercy of Mom Nature is humbling, no matter the size of the sailboat -By the way, I am glad you guys didn't raise the sails! YIKES! Mike G.
Ocean Sailing and the H-170
What a great thread. Hi guys. As some of you may know, I have had my h-170 for about four years now, however, it has yet to see fresh water. I have considered taking it to some of the lakes in California, such as Lake Tahoe, but have yet to go. All of my sailing is in bays, harbors, and open seas. The most important things to know are your local weather, your boats capability, and your capability. I have been in the sea when it is almost dead calm, and when it was 25+kt breeze. I find that <20kts is fine, under most conditions, for the experienced sailor whom also knows the h-170. Some harbors, such as Ventura Harbor that Glenn mentioned, requires no consideration for tides while sailing in or out of the harbor, or launching and retrieving. However, some bays and harbors require a great deal of consideration. Sailing under the Golden Gate Bridge, during an ebb tide, at full hull speed, in a fast Melges 24, may still find you sailing backwards. It does not matter wether you are sailing in fresh or salt water. But, what does matter, is that you know your weather, water, boat, and capabilities. Sail safe. Danny
What a great thread. Hi guys. As some of you may know, I have had my h-170 for about four years now, however, it has yet to see fresh water. I have considered taking it to some of the lakes in California, such as Lake Tahoe, but have yet to go. All of my sailing is in bays, harbors, and open seas. The most important things to know are your local weather, your boats capability, and your capability. I have been in the sea when it is almost dead calm, and when it was 25+kt breeze. I find that <20kts is fine, under most conditions, for the experienced sailor whom also knows the h-170. Some harbors, such as Ventura Harbor that Glenn mentioned, requires no consideration for tides while sailing in or out of the harbor, or launching and retrieving. However, some bays and harbors require a great deal of consideration. Sailing under the Golden Gate Bridge, during an ebb tide, at full hull speed, in a fast Melges 24, may still find you sailing backwards. It does not matter wether you are sailing in fresh or salt water. But, what does matter, is that you know your weather, water, boat, and capabilities. Sail safe. Danny
Excellent input, Danny
Thanks, Danny. All of your points are well-taken. A brief aside on the Golden Gate sail: My cousin did his residency at Stanford, and got his keelboat offshore certification????? while there (needed to be able to sail bareboat/Sunsail/Moorings. He and several buddies who were all experienced sailors had the opportunity to rent a new Hunter 36 (or thereabouts, not positive on the length) and sail it on SF Bay and out into open ocean. He said that on the way back, the breeze was at about 25kts and the waves piled up and (due to ebbtide) appeared to be "level with the heads of those on-deck"! Talk about adrenaline! Anyway, as you might have guessed in a keelboat with experienced sailors aboard, they made it back OK! Mike G.
Thanks, Danny. All of your points are well-taken. A brief aside on the Golden Gate sail: My cousin did his residency at Stanford, and got his keelboat offshore certification????? while there (needed to be able to sail bareboat/Sunsail/Moorings. He and several buddies who were all experienced sailors had the opportunity to rent a new Hunter 36 (or thereabouts, not positive on the length) and sail it on SF Bay and out into open ocean. He said that on the way back, the breeze was at about 25kts and the waves piled up and (due to ebbtide) appeared to be "level with the heads of those on-deck"! Talk about adrenaline! Anyway, as you might have guessed in a keelboat with experienced sailors aboard, they made it back OK! Mike G.
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Rick S.
Big water
I've lived most of my 50+ years along Lake Ontario's south shore, but I've been on the lake less than a dozen times. I grew up in a small-boat family that by necessity favored other, more protected waters. I now live minutes away from several public launches with access to Ontario, but prefer to trailer my 170 an hour south to the Finger Lakes, where my wife and I can sail comfortably and safely within our limits, and help is never far away. Except for a handful of beach catamarans, most sailboats along this stretch of Ontario are cruisers 26 feet and larger. Last summer, an experienced local sailor ventured onto Ontario alone in a 20-foot daysailer, late in the day, in deteriorating weather. That decision cost him his life. Lake Ontario certainly isn't the ocean, but it is no less capable of snatching lives and hulls from the incautious and the unlucky. Looking north from here, all you can see is sky, water and horizon, so it's too big a pond for me and my little boat.
I've lived most of my 50+ years along Lake Ontario's south shore, but I've been on the lake less than a dozen times. I grew up in a small-boat family that by necessity favored other, more protected waters. I now live minutes away from several public launches with access to Ontario, but prefer to trailer my 170 an hour south to the Finger Lakes, where my wife and I can sail comfortably and safely within our limits, and help is never far away. Except for a handful of beach catamarans, most sailboats along this stretch of Ontario are cruisers 26 feet and larger. Last summer, an experienced local sailor ventured onto Ontario alone in a 20-foot daysailer, late in the day, in deteriorating weather. That decision cost him his life. Lake Ontario certainly isn't the ocean, but it is no less capable of snatching lives and hulls from the incautious and the unlucky. Looking north from here, all you can see is sky, water and horizon, so it's too big a pond for me and my little boat.
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